Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so here is the deal I got challanged to build a 1500 point list to take on an IG mech list adn ya its for friday afternoon. Iv been really busy with new classes and such so I havent had much time to make a list I have a few ideas like 3 preds with ac/lc and 4 razorbacks with twinlinked lc thats one idea or the other something drop podding and jumping in with 2 furioso's but im really tired adn nothing is finalized all i know is BA gotta win this if you have any ideas I would appreciate it.

So basically you've been lazy and haven't made a list and you won't someone else to do it for you?

Based on the models you're saying try this:

Librarian - shield of sanguinus & unleash rage

Sanguinary Priest

Sanguinary Priest

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - meltagun - Sgt w/ inferus pistol - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - meltagun - Sgt w/ inferus pistol - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - meltagun - Sgt w/ inferus pistol - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - flamer - Sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

5 x Assault Marines w/ Razorback - flamer - Sgt w/ power weapon - Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun

Predator - autocannon & lascannon sponsons

Predator - autocannon & lascannon sponsons

Predator - autocannon & lascannon sponsons

Sit back blast high priority targets with lascannons. Next turn move forward unleash lascannons and plasma at targets. Next turn bail out move, shoot, assault - Blood Angels win!

lol.

heh, yeah, that's probably pretty close to the most tailored list you can make.

Also, remember that krak grenades hit rear armor, and you can take a lot of them with high mobility. I'd presume that an assault-marine army would actually do pretty good.

That and perhaps a storm raven. Volley firing krak missiles, throwing around twin-linked multimelta shots, and delivering a dreadnought halfway across the board to AUTO-PEN vehicles also sounds like a good idea.

Yeah Mercer's list looks really good and if those are the models you have I would go with that.

However, if you have jump packs magnetized though DoA could work really well too. Accurate deepstrike right into melta range and blow his mech away before he knows what hit him.

or take some drop pods and no-scatter heroic intervention thunder hammers into them. Or outflank assault cannon baal predators into their side armor.

Really, BA should have as little trouble against mech armies as they do against horde armies.

Against IG, DONT play mech, as their mech>your mech.

Better firepower for cheaper, better armor for cheaper, and just simply more vehicles than you makes for a bad matchup. Sure, you have mobility, but they dont care because they have the range to pummel you no matter where you go.

If you play mech against them and lose first turn, you'll be looking at a burning parking lot before you even have a chance to move.

Play DoA, lots melta assault squads dropping down will give them a headache, because you will always get to shoot with them first, and blood lance is great for de-castling their gay chimera wall.

Pick up a lib, take 2 JP priests, fill out the rest of the army with as many 10 man assault squads w/ 2x meltagun and PF as you can = win.

Thanks every one i'm going to go with the razorback army because the terrain is going to make that more advantageous for me too much terrain to drop onto :( So tanks it is ill let you know how it goes and thanks again

*Subscribed*

I was at a tourney recently and half of the top table players were all fielding Mech IG. I'm looking forward to a way of beating them!!

Jabbdo wrote:Sure, you have mobility, but they dont care because they have the range to pummel you no matter where you go.

This is entirely missing the point of BA mobility. The point of BA mobility isn't that you can stay FURTHER away from your opponent, it's so you can close range with your opponent FASTER.

A 4th ed guard gunline worked because their targets moved slowly across the battlefield, so they got several turns to pummel them. Against a properly done BA player, the guard should never have more than 1 turn to attack things before it's too late. Yes, guard can be very good at alpha strike, but not even a guard alpha striker can win games when they only have 1/6ths of the turns to be useful in.

As a guard mech player, I am more afraid of drop pod, doa, type lists than MSU lists. I just normally have way more firepower to lob your way even if you do get first turn. 2 Vendettas using the scout move can draw enough fire away from the rest of my list for the rest of my army to cripple yours.

Land raiders!!!!Devastors, eat las russ tanks!,Raiders best all around armor. My ig mech has been screwed over a few times by them.Land speeders with meltas.

DoA list = dead mech IG... seriously, unless hes running demolitions spam, deep strike in, drop his russes quick. Then mop up as his guardsman will have a rough time killing 30+ FnP marines.

Ailaros wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:Sure, you have mobility, but they dont care because they have the range to pummel you no matter where you go.

This is entirely missing the point of BA mobility. The point of BA mobility isn't that you can stay FURTHER away from your opponent, it's so you can close range with your opponent FASTER.

A 4th ed guard gunline worked because their targets moved slowly across the battlefield, so they got several turns to pummel them. Against a properly done BA player, the guard should never have more than 1 turn to attack things before it's too late. Yes, guard can be very good at alpha strike, but not even a guard alpha striker can win games when they only have 1/6ths of the turns to be useful in.

WOW, you can close range with your opponent, how fething impressive, what are you gonna do then, melta a fething chimera? And then get plasma'd to death? GJ

Use your brain. You will need 2 turns to get to his lines, IG needs 1 to cripple/destroy/suppress most of your tanks.

Against IG, DoA is the most effective build, hands down.

Jabbdo wrote: WOW, you can close range with your opponent, how fething impressive, what are you gonna do then, melta a fething chimera? And then get plasma'd to death? GJ

Use your brain.

Yes, because suggesting that you take a BA army and hide your units like a little girl is totally the sign of high intelligence...

Early in the game, your opponents units are going to be clustered, and probably rather immobile. This leaves them VERY vulnerable to getting multi-assaulted by krak grenades, some of which will undoubtedly be hitting automatically.

Storm raven or heroic intervention a squad completely armed with thunder hammers turn 1, and it's possible to destroy most of your opponents vehicles straight away. After that, you've got the best close combat army in the game against a guard force which will only get one turn of shooting with special weapons before you wipe them off the board alltogether.

Of course, as Jabbdo notes, destroying all of a mech guard players' vehicles only makes them far more powerful, so be warned...

Ailaros wrote:

Jabbdo wrote: WOW, you can close range with your opponent, how fething impressive, what are you gonna do then, melta a fething chimera? And then get plasma'd to death? GJ

Use your brain.

Yes, because suggesting that you take a BA army and hide your units like a little girl is totally the sign of high intelligence...

Early in the game, your opponents units are going to be clustered, and probably rather immobile. This leaves them VERY vulnerable to getting multi-assaulted by krak grenades, some of which will undoubtedly be hitting automatically.

Storm raven or heroic intervention a squad completely armed with thunder hammers turn 1, and it's possible to destroy most of your opponents vehicles straight away. After that, you've got the best close combat army in the game against a guard force which will only get one turn of shooting with special weapons before you wipe them off the board alltogether.

Of course, as Jabbdo notes, destroying all of a mech guard players' vehicles only makes them far more powerful, so be warned...

Your vanguards can deep strike on t1?? Why doesnt my codex have that?

There is NOTHING in the BA codex, barring scout bikers, that can assault on t1 (OK, in spearhead/dawn of war you CAN get t1 charges off, but your opponent has to deploy poorly for that to happen, the scout bikers will always be able to assault on t1, unless your opponent reserves. Oh and meph CAN get a t1 charge off from a land raider or stormraven, but your opponent just has to deploy 3" back from the front of his deployment zone to stop you from doing that.). To stop you from assaulting his vehicles on t1 (or any turn really) all the IG player has to do is stick an expendable unit of guardsmen around his vehicles. Voila, you have to chop them up first, and expose yourself to nasty plasma death.

If you have meltasquads in rhino's, for example, then yes, you can be melta'ing his vehicles t2. The problem is that if you go second most of your vehicles will be suppressed/destroyed, and your army will fall apart in your deployment zone, with no way to close with your opponent. Even if you DO go first, your opponent will most likely block you with a couple of expendable chimeras, buying him EVEN MORE time to pummel you with his far superior long range shooting.

If you play DoA, you will ALWAYS be able to shoot before him (unless he reserves, but then just deploy, bounce up to his edge and kill him peacemeal). When playing DoA, the IG player cant just suppress your transports and laugh at your 6" move. He HAS to kill you to stop you killing him, and god knows its hard killing 40+ FnP marines in 1 turn, even for IG.

I've never said you should hide your units, what do you mean by that? With the mobility remark I was referring to the fact that if you play mech BA and are facing, for example, a CC army, you can use your greater mobility to just kite your opponent and shoot him to death. Against IG this makes no difference as they do not care if you are faster than them, they can still shoot you dead, and they have the range to get you no matter where you go.

Jabbdo wrote:Against IG, DONT play mech, as their mech>your mech.

Better firepower for cheaper, better armor for cheaper, and just simply more vehicles than you makes for a bad matchup. Sure, you have mobility, but they dont care because they have the range to pummel you no matter where you go.

If you play mech against them and lose first turn, you'll be looking at a burning parking lot before you even have a chance to move.

Play DoA, lots melta assault squads dropping down will give them a headache, because you will always get to shoot with them first, and blood lance is great for de-castling their gay chimera wall.

Pick up a lib, take 2 JP priests, fill out the rest of the army with as many 10 man assault squads w/ 2x meltagun and PF as you can = win.

Jabbdo wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

Jabbdo wrote:Sure, you have mobility, but they dont care because they have the range to pummel you no matter where you go.

This is entirely missing the point of BA mobility. The point of BA mobility isn't that you can stay FURTHER away from your opponent, it's so you can close range with your opponent FASTER.

A 4th ed guard gunline worked because their targets moved slowly across the battlefield, so they got several turns to pummel them. Against a properly done BA player, the guard should never have more than 1 turn to attack things before it's too late. Yes, guard can be very good at alpha strike, but not even a guard alpha striker can win games when they only have 1/6ths of the turns to be useful in.

WOW, you can close range with your opponent, how fething impressive, what are you gonna do then, melta a fething chimera? And then get plasma'd to death? GJ

Use your brain. You will need 2 turns to get to his lines, IG needs 1 to cripple/destroy/suppress most of your tanks.

Against IG, DoA is the most effective build, hands down.

I have to agree with Jabbdo here despite going against what I suggested. Reason is Chimeras while have same all around armour as a Razorback, if they keep that front facing they're harder to pop. Razorbacks are pretty weak and Guard can sit back and blow stuff up from afar, can be very bad if they get first turn. Sure Razorbacks have long range fire power, but not as much as Guard do. And, when Guard close in they have mass plasma, melta etc which can really ruin a Marines day. The trick is with Guard armies like this is to hang back and shoot at them until dead, then move in for the kill, but it's easier said than done. Rolling up bailing out unleash melta and then get plasma in the face is not a valid option.

DoA however will still suffer the same problems. Like mech rolling up and bailing out and giving melta treatment DoA will do the same. Marines will deep strike in, unleash melta and then eat plasma. The situtation is exactly the same. Only benefit is DoA have larger squads to asborb fire power. Mech of course has armour protection and if those tanks are destroyed Marines could bail out of a none moved Chimera, unleash melta and then assault which is really bad news for Blood Angels.

Either way, Mech Guard is dangerous for Marines. In all honestly, Razorback spam is the best because Guard can be held at arms length while DoA puts you in the firing line but ultimately you're walking (or dropping lol) straight into the Guards guns, bad times.

Hmmm, interesting thread! Plasma in the face does not sound fun! I would be tempted to sit back with a shooty list.

Aye. As mentioned DoA comes in dishes out melta to a Chimera, then next turn I.G dish out plasma to Angels, probably leaving some left, maybe, depends what else the Guard fire at them.

Mech rolls up unleashes melta, next turn I.G unleash plasma and more than likely kill all as Razorbacks only carry 6 models max.

Best is to hold back and blow up Chimeras. I use Devastators with Razorbacks and they go hand in hand, the more ranged fire power the better, plus mech B.A armies in fact all B.A armies should have a Librarian with shield power for cover saves.

Either way situtation is the same. Angels pop a tank and Guard gives them the plasma treatment. Mech probably has the benefit as can roll up and pop smoke then next turn bail out 2" move 6" assault 6" before using melta to open up the transport and then move in for the kill.

Yes, but the guard player should get only one turn of plasma fire before their squishy vets wind up in close combat and wiped off the board.

Guard players are going to find it difficult to table a BA player in one turn with just special weapons.

With the one turn of plasma fire it's enough to see a small squad from a Razorback dead or seriously mauled. Full Assault Squad should asborb the damage, however there will be more than one Vet squad firing at the Assault Squad so I doubt they will survive with much intact.

The guard players that I typically play against also take mystics in vendettas... so DOA gets 6 or 9 TL-LC shots (depends on game point value) on the drop if you drop into melta range.

Properly run IG mech lists are just darn difficult to beat. You have to take out the vendetta's first then you are faced with the prospect of massed melta.

Need something to slowdown the meltavets in their Chimeras to give time to kill off the vendetta's Perhaps a hybrid with 2 10 marine JP squads with priest to slow down the chimera's while a bunch of predators and speeders take down the vendettas?

Scouts sneaking up behind artillery teams. Always a good choice against guard.

DoA armies are the way to go vs Mech IG, and I play Mech IG so I should know.

Another nasty trick is to drop-pod a Death Company unit right in front of the tank line.

Death Company are a royal pain in the arse to kill due to FnP and as they're Fearless the IG player will have to kill every single one of them, which draws firepower from the rest of your army. A single S9 power fist mashing its way through vehicles is a bad thing. The drop-pod lets them DS aggressively, the only caveat being that if you decide to DS your whole army they will be coming in on their own Turn 1 so will be shot at by pretty much everything the IG player has. Swings and roundabouts though.

My advice would be to not try and out-mech IG, we do it better, for cheaper than you and whilst you may move fast it doesn't take a lot of firepower to down 5 marines without FnP. Downing 10 marines with FnP and an 18" move and assault range, however, is a completely different story, especially with that hidden power fist.

L. Wrex


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waricck wrote:Scouts sneaking up behind artillery teams. Always a good choice against guard.

Guh? Only Wolf Scouts can come on your opponent's board edge...and we're talking BA here. Wrong army dude.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:DoA armies are the way to go vs Mech IG, and I play Mech IG so I should know.

So am I, so I should know too...

Another nasty trick is to drop-pod a Death Company unit right in front of the tank line.

Auto fail. Death Co drops in only with infernus pistols pops tank but will need to be within 3" to do that, if they've got a power fist no Guard player will let them survive to do that. Mass plasma and melta from the Guard will deny any FnP.

My advice would be to not try and out-mech IG, we do it better, for cheaper than you and whilst you may move fast it doesn't take a lot of firepower to down 5 marines without FnP. Downing 10 marines with FnP and an 18" move and assault range, however, is a completely different story, especially with that hidden power fist.

L. Wrex

This I can agree on, however lascannons on the Razorbacks can ruin Chimeras and without a cover (besides smoke) i.e shield power the Chimeras just have to bend and take it. As mentioned before, the best way to deal with Mech Guard is at range - you deep strike in you may pop a tank but you're a sitting duck for a turn which you'll eat plasma. You blast them out the Chimeras you can move up, bail out unleash flamer etc and assault and batter them. Keeping them at range is honestly the best thing you can do.

mercer wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:DoA armies are the way to go vs Mech IG, and I play Mech IG so I should know.

So am I, so I should know too...

Indeed you should! Hang on...what's the point we're trying to make here...?

mercer wrote:Auto fail. Death Co drops in only with infernus pistols pops tank but will need to be within 3" to do that, if they've got a power fist no Guard player will let them survive to do that. Mass plasma and melta from the Guard will deny any FnP.

You arrange the DC so they get 50% cover from the drop pod, now you've got to fire 50% more plasma/melta at those DC, which is plasma/melta you'd rather be using on DoA assault marines or Land Raiders. The point of the DC isn't to actively do damage, but to scare the IG player so much due to the potential damage they can do that they focus solely upon that unit at the exclusion of the rest of the BA army. Whether this is worth the amount of points a DC unit costs is upto the player him/herself, and there's always the potential that the unit isn't wiped out either...

Again, the major caveat is that if you choose to DS your entire DoA army the DC will, quite literally, be the only unit on the board that the IG player has to shoot at. I never said it was a perfect desicion,

mercer wrote:This I can agree on, however lascannons on the Razorbacks can ruin Chimeras and without a cover (besides smoke) i.e shield power the Chimeras just have to bend and take it. As mentioned before, the best way to deal with Mech Guard is at range - you deep strike in you may pop a tank but you're a sitting duck for a turn which you'll eat plasma. You blast them out the Chimeras you can move up, bail out unleash flamer etc and assault and batter them. Keeping them at range is honestly the best thing you can do.

Sure, if you DS *one* squad in and wreck one tank you may well eat a ton of plasma shots. However, you wreck a Vets Chimera and a good portion of the squad will die, possibly failing its leadership and/or pinning check in the process. All of a sudden the amount of plasma you face is reduced by one squad. And then you take into consideration that your going to be dropping 2, 3 or even 4 10-man assault squads (each w/ two meltas and a fist) and there's no WAY the IG player bought enough plasma to deal with that many 3+, FnP marines. Heck, I take plasma on my CCS and I consider myself way in the minority of IG players who make use of plasma, 99% of (admitted, internet lists) load up on melta and nothing else.

The way to beat mech IG has, and always will be, swarming them with so many high-priority targets in one go that they cannot possibly kill them all in the one or two turns of shooting needed. Standing on the back-line and trying to out-shoot Mech IG relying upon lascannons and Shield just doesn't seem like it'll work; there's no pressure on the IG player whatsoever. You drop 30-40 FnP marines 3-4 inches from his lines and watch him struggle to stop them all before they do major damage.

Just my £0.02

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

mercer wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:DoA armies are the way to go vs Mech IG, and I play Mech IG so I should know.

So am I, so I should know too...

Indeed you should! Hang on...what's the point we're trying to make here...?

The context I got from you was "I'm a Guard player so listen to me, ignore everyone else" could be wrong..just saying that other people play Guard too and don't need to say they play Guard to reinforce their opinions.

mercer wrote:Auto fail. Death Co drops in only with infernus pistols pops tank but will need to be within 3" to do that, if they've got a power fist no Guard player will let them survive to do that. Mass plasma and melta from the Guard will deny any FnP.

You arrange the DC so they get 50% cover from the drop pod, now you've got to fire 50% more plasma/melta at those DC, which is plasma/melta you'd rather be using on DoA assault marines or Land Raiders. The point of the DC isn't to actively do damage, but to scare the IG player so much due to the potential damage they can do that they focus solely upon that unit at the exclusion of the rest of the BA army. Whether this is worth the amount of points a DC unit costs is upto the player him/herself, and there's always the potential that the unit isn't wiped out either...

I doubt you'd get 50% cover from a Drop Pod because it's open, a open Pod doesn't give 50% cover last time I used one. You're still going to fire at those Death Co because a more iniment threat, same with the Assault Squads coming down, the only difference is the Pod will be down first turn while DoA and Land Raiders come down second earliest or in assault second turn earliest.

mercer wrote:This I can agree on, however lascannons on the Razorbacks can ruin Chimeras and without a cover (besides smoke) i.e shield power the Chimeras just have to bend and take it. As mentioned before, the best way to deal with Mech Guard is at range - you deep strike in you may pop a tank but you're a sitting duck for a turn which you'll eat plasma. You blast them out the Chimeras you can move up, bail out unleash flamer etc and assault and batter them. Keeping them at range is honestly the best thing you can do.

Sure, if you DS *one* squad in and wreck one tank you may well eat a ton of plasma shots. However, you wreck a Vets Chimera and a good portion of the squad will die, possibly failing its leadership and/or pinning check in the process. All of a sudden the amount of plasma you face is reduced by one squad. And then you take into consideration that your going to be dropping 2, 3 or even 4 10-man assault squads (each w/ two meltas and a fist) and there's no WAY the IG player bought enough plasma to deal with that many 3+, FnP marines. Heck, I take plasma on my CCS and I consider myself way in the minority of IG players who make use of plasma, 99% of (admitted, internet lists) load up on melta and nothing else.

You don't deep strike. As mentioned would be lascannons on a Razorback, and yes a good portion of Vets my day in a explosion and possibly leg it. As for plasma, my list is pretty heavy with it along with melta - four plasma units and three melta squads.

The way to beat mech IG has, and always will be, swarming them with so many high-priority targets in one go that they cannot possibly kill them all in the one or two turns of shooting needed. Standing on the back-line and trying to out-shoot Mech IG relying upon lascannons and Shield just doesn't seem like it'll work; there's no pressure on the IG player whatsoever. You drop 30-40 FnP marines 3-4 inches from his lines and watch him struggle to stop them all before they do major damage.

Just my £0.02

L. Wrex

As you said yourself, explode the tanks (fingers crossed) and kill some in the explosion. With mech Angels when the Guard are out you've still got a massive distance between the two, while DoA is on the door step and comes down in piecemeal, there won't be that many targets for Guard to nuke. You're just not going to drop 30-40 marines in a single turn.

mercer wrote:The context I got from you was "I'm a Guard player so listen to me, ignore everyone else" could be wrong..just saying that other people play Guard too and don't need to say they play Guard to reinforce their opinions.

Haha, I didn't mean it like that at all. My own fault really, I should have put a /sarcasm or a /places tongue in cheek or something to stop people getting the wrong idea. I wouldn't advocate my own advice over anyone elses in all honesty, least of all from an army as widely played as IG.

OT: With DoA you get to re-roll failed reserve rolls. That's 75% of the army coming down in Turn 2. Furthermore you *want* to be on his doorstep, pressuring him into making panicked desicions. I just don't think that sitting back with a mass of Razorbacks will end particularly well for the BA player. Sure, you bring about 10 lascannons that have the potential to knock out 5 vehicles in one turn, but what if the IG player brings AV14 to BLoS/hull down his AV12? What if he has lots of barrage artillery that can hide out of LoS and shell your AV11 with impunity? What if he goes first or steals the initiative and wastes all your Razorbacks/stuns yours Predators in one turn? (which isn't that hard to do with 3 x Vendettas and the sheer volume of S6+ firepower a mech IG army can put out). Trying to go mech for mech is playing into the IG player's hands as he simply has more firepower than the BA, and all the BA has to mitigate that is a 5+ invulnerable.

Thats not to say, having said all that, that a mech BA *can't* beat a mech IG, I just think its making the job a lot harder than it needs to be.

L. Wrex

acsmedic wrote:The guard players that I typically play against also take mystics in vendettas... so DOA gets 6 or 9 TL-LC shots (depends on game point value) on the drop if you drop into melta range.

Properly run IG mech lists are just darn difficult to beat. You have to take out the vendetta's first then you are faced with the prospect of massed melta.

Need something to slowdown the meltavets in their Chimeras to give time to kill off the vendetta's Perhaps a hybrid with 2 10 marine JP squads with priest to slow down the chimera's while a bunch of predators and speeders take down the vendettas?

If the mystics are in vendettas, they have no LOS to the target of their power, as the Vendetta has no fire ports, IIRC. And if that's not the case, drop out of the vendetta's 45 degree arc of fire for their lascannons. They can't pivot just because a power is used.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

mercer wrote:The context I got from you was "I'm a Guard player so listen to me, ignore everyone else" could be wrong..just saying that other people play Guard too and don't need to say they play Guard to reinforce their opinions.

Haha, I didn't mean it like that at all. My own fault really, I should have put a /sarcasm or a /places tongue in cheek or something to stop people getting the wrong idea. I wouldn't advocate my own advice over anyone elses in all honesty, least of all from an army as widely played as IG.

OT: With DoA you get to re-roll failed reserve rolls. That's 75% of the army coming down in Turn 2. Furthermore you *want* to be on his doorstep, pressuring him into making panicked desicions. I just don't think that sitting back with a mass of Razorbacks will end particularly well for the BA player. Sure, you bring about 10 lascannons that have the potential to knock out 5 vehicles in one turn, but what if the IG player brings AV14 to BLoS/hull down his AV12? What if he has lots of barrage artillery that can hide out of LoS and shell your AV11 with impunity? What if he goes first or steals the initiative and wastes all your Razorbacks/stuns yours Predators in one turn? (which isn't that hard to do with 3 x Vendettas and the sheer volume of S6+ firepower a mech IG army can put out). Trying to go mech for mech is playing into the IG player's hands as he simply has more firepower than the BA, and all the BA has to mitigate that is a 5+ invulnerable.

Thats not to say, having said all that, that a mech BA *can't* beat a mech IG, I just think its making the job a lot harder than it needs to be.

L. Wrex

You will get no where near 75% of the army coming down on turn 2 as you need a 4+ which is only 50% chance as it is, if you've got 50% chance to get a unit then you won't get 75% chance of the army.