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I think I'm going to do WitchHunters for my first army in 10 years. I was actually thinking that I wouldn't use any Sisters though. Bad idea? I don't really see much power in "Faith" (in game terms). I was thinking of using Inducted SM and Inq Stormtroopers. I'd OF COURSE use the Exorcists... they're nice and shooty.

Did I ask this in the right spot? If so, can anyone help me out?

I'm doing mine with no Sisters and inducted Guard with Inquisitional Stormtroopers. I haven't played them yet, but soon...

Straight off the bat I've got to say it's not the most competitive build. Sisters should be the core of any witch hunteres army, especially given that Inq Stormtroopers are very overpriced in comparison to the sisters (Sisters are +1 pt for an improvement in weapon/armour and ability to use faith). Inducted Guard are tricky to use, some RAW players may have serious issues. In my experience they were always great as a substantial part (roughly half?) of my witch hunters list. But I always treated sisters as the core of my army (in retrospect using more rhinos would have been better), and they could operate well enough on their own. My stormtroopers were never very useful outside of a small 5-man supporting role, which was essentially the only way to pack 2 plasma guns in a sqaud which would hang around an objective or support Bolter/melta/flamer heavy sisters.

Faith can be complex weapon to use, but can prove devastatingly effective. Cannoness charged by mounstrous creature? Act of Faith can give her a 2+ save. Armed only with bolters against a Trygon? Act of faith can basically make those shots rending. I would advise you to steer clear of going to heavy on Seraphim, I always made the mistake of overestimating their capabilities.

I'm doing similar for my own army; pure Witch Hunters, no sisters. I like the Inquisition side more to be honest.

Sisters are miles better than stormtroopers as troops (and that's not saying much). Faith isn't something that you should disregard, its the main strength of my own Witch Hunter's army-3+ invulnerable saves, rending on every model....- and, at least in my own expeiriance, throws a spanner in the works for an unprepared opponent. I don't see much point in taking marines when you have a comparable troops choice for two points less. Sure sisters have only T3, but rather than taking a mix of Stormtroopers (who honestly suck) and marines, a load of sisters (squads of 13 min) decked out for mid ranged combat and supported by a nigh unkillable (least not if your opponent doesn't throw a good portion of their army at her) and three Exorcists (3-24 of Str 8 AP 2 shots a turn!) should lead to a competative army if played right. Inducted guard can give you some cheap fire power and meat shields, whereas a load of fully tooled up zealots'll kill just about anything they charge (as long as you opponent allows you to use them). If you play them as a mid ranged army (with a bit of long range from the exorcists), whilst also not neglecting that even your basic troops can be deadly in close combat if used properally, you should at least give your opponent a hard time with things. ^^

Realistically, if you're steering clear of Sisters, Witch Hunters become a good deal more attractive to put together. Myself, I still like Inquisitors and they don't seem to be any harder to find than they always were. Exorcists, well, they've never been exactly cheap, but if you're going for the most blinged out tank in 40K, it pretty much wins hands down.

The big thing is that if you're using Marine or Guard models for your main troops, they become much easier to come by in quantity and work with.

Why not use Inquisitorial Stormtroopers with the Sisters rules? The sisters are far superior to the storm troopers, and you get to use the minis you want to use.

Wyrmalla wrote:Sisters are miles better than stormtroopers as troops (and that's not saying much). Faith isn't something that you should disregard, its the main strength of my own Witch Hunter's army-3+ invulnerable saves, rending on every model....- and, at least in my own expeiriance, throws a spanner in the works for an unprepared opponent. I don't see much point in taking marines when you have a comparable troops choice for two points less. Sure sisters have only T3, but rather than taking a mix of Stormtroopers (who honestly suck) and marines, a load of sisters (squads of 13 min) decked out for mid ranged combat and supported by a nigh unkillable (least not if your opponent doesn't throw a good portion of their army at her) and three Exorcists (3-24 of Str 8 AP 2 shots a turn!) should lead to a competative army if played right. Inducted guard can give you some cheap fire power and meat shields, whereas a load of fully tooled up zealots'll kill just about anything they charge (as long as you opponent allows you to use them). If you play them as a mid ranged army (with a bit of long range from the exorcists), whilst also not neglecting that even your basic troops can be deadly in close combat if used properally, you should at least give your opponent a hard time with things. ^^

OK... if the squads are so big, you don't use transports? Doesn't that open them up to heavy shooting?

Wyrmalla wrote:Sisters are miles better than stormtroopers as troops (and that's not saying much). Faith isn't something that you should disregard, its the main strength of my own Witch Hunter's army-3+ invulnerable saves, rending on every model....- and, at least in my own expeiriance, throws a spanner in the works for an unprepared opponent. I don't see much point in taking marines when you have a comparable troops choice for two points less. Sure sisters have only T3, but rather than taking a mix of Stormtroopers (who honestly suck) and marines, a load of sisters (squads of 13 min) decked out for mid ranged combat and supported by a nigh unkillable (least not if your opponent doesn't throw a good portion of their army at her) and three Exorcists (3-24 of Str 8 AP 2 shots a turn!) should lead to a competative army if played right. Inducted guard can give you some cheap fire power and meat shields, whereas a load of fully tooled up zealots'll kill just about anything they charge (as long as you opponent allows you to use them). If you play them as a mid ranged army (with a bit of long range from the exorcists), whilst also not neglecting that even your basic troops can be deadly in close combat if used properally, you should at least give your opponent a hard time with things. ^^

Some people want to play pure Witch Hunters, without SoB, for the fluff aspect of it, the background, not the competitive side.

So you want to play Space Marines and Guard, but want to use one of the last 3rd edition Codices still legal in 5th edition and the dying special allies rules from that edition? Why? It will be illegal soon anyway.

Mr Hyena wrote:

Wyrmalla wrote:Sisters are miles better than stormtroopers as troops (and that's not saying much). Faith isn't something that you should disregard, its the main strength of my own Witch Hunter's army-3+ invulnerable saves, rending on every model....- and, at least in my own expeiriance, throws a spanner in the works for an unprepared opponent. I don't see much point in taking marines when you have a comparable troops choice for two points less. Sure sisters have only T3, but rather than taking a mix of Stormtroopers (who honestly suck) and marines, a load of sisters (squads of 13 min) decked out for mid ranged combat and supported by a nigh unkillable (least not if your opponent doesn't throw a good portion of their army at her) and three Exorcists (3-24 of Str 8 AP 2 shots a turn!) should lead to a competative army if played right. Inducted guard can give you some cheap fire power and meat shields, whereas a load of fully tooled up zealots'll kill just about anything they charge (as long as you opponent allows you to use them). If you play them as a mid ranged army (with a bit of long range from the exorcists), whilst also not neglecting that even your basic troops can be deadly in close combat if used properally, you should at least give your opponent a hard time with things. ^^

Some people want to play pure Witch Hunters, without SoB, for the fluff aspect of it, the background, not the competitive side.

I'd also like to be somewhat competitive. I'm just not a fan of the sob models...


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Kroothawk wrote:So you want to play Space Marines and Guard, but want to use one of the last 3rd edition Codices still legal in 5th edition and the dying special allies rules from that edition? Why? It will be illegal soon anyway.

I dont know. I read somewhere that WH were competitive but DH were awful. I'd rather play DH. Always liked Inquisitors.

Sisters can still be somewhat competitve due to their large number of melta weapons and the Exorcist, which are utter beasts to use against anything. Sisters themselves are also not that badly priced for what you get (point wise anyways. The models are prohibitively expensive) They're basically cheaper, flame-based versions of marines.

Interestingly enough, I run both "pure" SoB and "pure" WH Inq. Of the two, the SoB are the "stronger" build, but the WH is much more fluffy and amusing to run. Does that mean I take several "bad" units? Yes, yes I suppose it does. Now that the rest of my latest order has come in, it will only be a matter of time until someone faces 18 Arcoflagellants and 9 Penitent Engines supported by two Landraider riding Inq. Lords with retinues and IST in Rhinos.

Edit: It also means that no Exorcist Tanks and Sisters Repentia for my Inq and no Landraiders and Assassins for my SoB. Although I could play them mixed, I usually choose not to. Call me weird.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Interestingly enough, I run both "pure" SoB and "pure" WH Inq. Of the two, the SoB are the "stronger" build, but the WH is much more fluffy and amusing to run. Does that mean I take several "bad" units? Yes, yes I suppose it does. Now that the rest of my latest order has come in, it will only be a matter of time until someone faces 18 Arcoflagellants and 9 Penitent Engines supported by two Landraider riding Inq. Lords with retinues and IST in Rhinos.

And this is very appealing to me!

Oh... how do hellguns compare to shotguns? I saw you can switch them as adeptus arbites... is it worthwhile????

chuckwilliams wrote:

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Interestingly enough, I run both "pure" SoB and "pure" WH Inq. Of the two, the SoB are the "stronger" build, but the WH is much more fluffy and amusing to run. Does that mean I take several "bad" units? Yes, yes I suppose it does. Now that the rest of my latest order has come in, it will only be a matter of time until someone faces 18 Arcoflagellants and 9 Penitent Engines supported by two Landraider riding Inq. Lords with retinues and IST in Rhinos.

And this is very appealing to me!

Oh... how do hellguns compare to shotguns? I saw you can switch them as adeptus arbites... is it worthwhile????

For most of my IST, I take the Hellguns for a few reasons. One, I try to stay in my ride as long as possible, so I usually just end up shooting the special weapons out of the top. Two, I have found that the AP 5 of the Hellguns have come in handy enough times catching GEQ in the open and ignoring their armor. Three, I usually wont be assaulting with my IST, and the few times I do, I don't shoot the rapid fire stuff. Now, on my one obligatory IST with a Priest attached, yes I take shotguns, Meltaguns, and Plasma Pistols just like my IG Vets because of the Priest's Holy Rage. So there are reasons to take both, but for the most part I just use the Hellguns. Plus, depending on your experience working with pewter if you're using actual IST models, it can be interesting trying to model them WYSIWYG. But if you're using counts as or other models, then go for it if you want to be slightly more assaulty.

Kroothawk wrote:So you want to play Space Marines and Guard, but want to use one of the last 3rd edition Codices still legal in 5th edition and the dying special allies rules from that edition? Why? It will be illegal soon anyway.

Because its fluffy. People still play Lost and the Damned and most people will play against someone with that list (unless they are a donkey-cave of course)

chuckwilliams wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:So you want to play Space Marines and Guard, but want to use one of the last 3rd edition Codices still legal in 5th edition and the dying special allies rules from that edition? Why? It will be illegal soon anyway.

I dont know. I read somewhere that WH were competitive but DH were awful. I'd rather play DH. Always liked Inquisitors.

Now we are getting closer to the point.

Yes, Sororitas lists can manage quite well, being cheap power armour supported by faith, not 5th edition Guard for 3rd edition elite Guard point costs.
But what you really want seems to be the Grey Knight Codex coming in April.

@Mr Hyena: Inquisition with Guard can be fluffy, but someone wanting to mix Space Marines, Inquisitors and Exorcists is not very interested in fluff consistency. So this is not relevant here.

Well, I didn't suggest Exorcists personally.

I guess I dont know the fluff all that well. Arent there different types of inquisitors? FOr demons, psykers, and aliens? So I guess witchhunter inquisitors are kinda the "light beer" or the "diet coke" of inquisitors?

I also figured inducted guard/marines it was like a "shut up and grab your socks, you're coming with me" sort of deal... But I was thinking of making my inducted marines from the Exorcist chapter... more fluffy, right?

chuckwilliams wrote:I guess I dont know the fluff all that well. Arent there different types of inquisitors?

In the fluff, every inquisitor is their own unique individual person and force upon the galaxy. While most Inquisitors roughly fit within the three big categories-- Ordo Hereticus (Witch Hunters), Ordo Malleus (Daemon Hunters), and Ordo Xenos (Alien Hunters)-- they also fit into many other categories, and change as time goes on and their opinions change.

The two biggest categories would be Puritan and Radical. A radical is one who uses the enemy's weapons against them, using normally heretical things to defeat their chosen enemies. An inquisitor with a daemon weapon for example, or one using xenos technology or even xenos alloes. A puritan is usually defined as not-radical, but there's basically a sliding scale between puritan and radical. The oldest Inquisitors tend towards radicalism while the youngest ones tend towards puritanism, but obviously there's exceptions to this. The most important Inquisitors in a sector are Inquisitor Lords, which don't have any actual formal power over anyone else, but tend to have cultivated the most power and influence out of all the Inquisitors anyway so people tend to listen to them even more.

Naturally, there's as many actual philosophies as there are Inquisitors, but they tend to be grouped together even further. Thorians, Monodominants, Istvaanism, Xanthism, etc-- if you're interested in learning more about the specifics of each type of belief and how they interact with eachother, I recommend picking up the Dark Heresy roleplaying game and its supplements as they expound far more lucidly than I would.

In game, there's two codices which have Inquisitors. Daemon Hunters (soon to be replaced by a codex: Grey Knights, which IIRC will still have Inquisitors in some form) and Witch Hunters (eventually to be replaced by a codex: Sisters of Battle, but it's quite possible that Inquisitors will keep some minor presence). These correspond with the appropriate groups.

Technically all three groups have access to pretty much the same equipment in fluff. But Witch Hunters tend to have duties that focus more on investigation and other more subtle work, and so they tend towards lighter equipment and armor. This is the only explanation I can give for their lack of terminator suits and heavy weapons in game. Similarly, Daemonhunter Inquisitors must actively go and hunt down daemons, and so they really need the heaviest armors and most sacred weapons, which is also my only explanation for their having terminator armor while witch hunters don't (Even though both groups would have access to both).

chuckwilliams wrote:I guess I dont know the fluff all that well. Arent there different types of inquisitors? FOr demons, psykers, and aliens? So I guess witchhunter inquisitors are kinda the "light beer" or the "diet coke" of inquisitors?

I also figured inducted guard/marines it was like a "shut up and grab your socks, you're coming with me" sort of deal... But I was thinking of making my inducted marines from the Exorcist chapter... more fluffy, right?

Short answer: Don't start a Witchhunter army right now if you don't really know what you are doing.

Longer answer:
1.) Witchhunters hunt heretics and unsanctioned psykers. Psykers can be very potent, look at the emperor. So this is not Inquisition Light.
2.) Fluffwise SM chapters are proud and important enough, so that even Inquisitors can't push them around but have to ask nicely. Rulewise, taking units from other armies into your army (inducted guard and SM) is a dying special rule from 3rd edition. GW obviously wants to get rid of this ASAP, first with Grey Knights in April, then with Sororitas sometime later. They even went so far as to not include the pages with these rules in their free pdf-downloads, which created some chaos.
3.) There is no Exorcist chapter, the Exorcist is a special Sororitas tank. And the Adeptus Sororitas are the military arm of the Witchhunters, not Space Marines.

I made a completely Non-sisters army for one reason: I.G and S.M are waaay cheaper!


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P.S: there is a chapter called the exorcists, try lexicanum if you dont belive me.

Which is questionable as far as canon goes with lots of weird little bits that don't really make sense, but let's not go there.

Kroothawk wrote:
3.) There is no Exorcist chapter, the Exorcist is a special Sororitas tank. And the Adeptus Sororitas are the military arm of the Witchhunters, not Space Marines.

Funny, there are pictures of them in the Space Marine codex. 13th Founding, offshoot of Grey Knights? Check out the Badab War stuff, they even have special characters...

Why are they getting rid of the Allied/Inducted rules for the Inquisition anyway? isn't that what made the Inquisition special? the wide choice?

Or are they pushing people who want to run inquistion to invest heavily in Special Characters just to unlock the ordo militant?

Or is Inquisition-pure getting something special in the near future?

So many questions. Damn you GW.

Kroothawk wrote:3.) There is no Exorcist chapter, the Exorcist is a special Sororitas tank. And the Adeptus Sororitas are the military arm of the Witchhunters, not Space Marines.

Multiple GW sources disagree with you.

Okay, I thought the first post was at least talking about ONE good Witchhunter unit, the Exorcist.
Maybe there IS a Chapter Exorcists, but it has nothing to do with the Witchhunter Codex we are talking about.

It is difficult enough to give advice on how to start a Witchhunter army even without all that off topic talk, esp. when the OP seems not clear about what he wants.

I think the OP was talking about the Exorcist vehichle. Which is an Sororitas tank. I don't think you can field it without any other sister units present at all.

Nope he can field the Exorcist, just not the Immolator.

Ah, fair enough. Maybe the Inquisitor Lord he is fielding to an extreme liking to the things?