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Ok heres my idea a group of night lords around m35 saved an inquisitor and retinue from destruction from some Daemons(or some other nasty group), The reason this group had saved the inquisitor was to gain redemption for themselves in the eyes of the emperor.
The Inquisitor in question knew that all the imperium would do to this group is exterminate, so instead he offered to try allow them a chance at redemption by following his (and his successors) orders, in return for some tricks to help fight against daemons(I'm thinking this inquisitor was one of the early radical inquisitors). So for the last 6 millenia these Night Lords have been the quintessential hounds of a select few inquisitors(Kind of like fight club rules for the inquisitors) in this time this group has staved off and outright prevented rebellions, daemonic incursions, Ork Waaghs etc..

So do you guys have any questions or points you would like to make (note I really dont want to hear the improbability of some CSM seeking redemption)

P.S.: if my spelling/grammar sucks I apologise I am currently fairly brain dead

EDIT: Fixed some stufff clarified others

CSM seeking redemption would likely not get to keep their humanity. For heretics of that level, they will most likely be executed at best, turned into pentient engines or acro-flagellants at worst. It is a nice concept though.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:CSM seeking redemption would likely not get to keep their humanity. For heretics of that level, they will most likely be executed at best, turned into pentient engines or acro-flagellants at worst. It is a nice concept though.

well I'm assuming its more of a select few inquisitors using them as tools that they don't have to cut through red tape to use, and I'm thinkin that this group could have very well taught inquisitors how to make controllable Daemon Hosts and such(where they are controllable),
EDIT: grr I need to learn how to spell

Unlikely.
The Inquisition would aways suspect them even if they did use them.
And Inquisitors don't have to get through red tape they have what they want when they need it and whoever doesn't give it to them gets shot in the face.

The problem is that the traditional mechanism by which a renegade or traitor chapter gains redemption is to go on a suicide mission.

It's considered impolite and an extreme breach of protocol to be alive at the end of such things.

A later, post heresy renegade chapter has chances to be redeemed. Nightlords, however, are a bit too fargone. The idea of them teaching inquisitors how to make daemonhosts does intrigue me however, as the Nightlords rely on capturing and taming daemons rather than pray and worship gods for them.

Interesting but i agree with MechaEmperor, the night lords are too far gone for even a radical to consider letting them be...

reason I chose Night lords is because A: they look unique and B: their tactics in war are interesting(and I read somewhere their geneseed is the least mutated out of the whole HH lot due to not serving one power for very long)

EDIT: I need to learn to spell

So are you going to play them as CSM or SM?

SM, I'd keep in mind that much of their stuff would be secretive meaning I probably would not have techmarines and minimal chaplains/apothecarians

Night Lords are way too far gone... The Inquisition aren't stupid and are very paranoid. They wouldn't trust them with a shiny rock let alone carrying out secret/important missions.


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solkan wrote:The problem is that the traditional mechanism by which a renegade or traitor chapter gains redemption is to go on a suicide mission.

It's considered impolite and an extreme breach of protocol to be alive at the end of such things.

Sigged... if i have room.

Nah,I think if you get shot for not having a lasgun ready,then any traitor will just be killed on sight.

It's plausible for a later founding chapter... But night lords? you'd have to be a pretty radical inquisitor.
Hahaha fight club reference! I like that idea
rule number one: nobody talks about our night lords minions!

Mukkin'About wrote:It's plausible for a later founding chapter... But night lords? you'd have to be a pretty radical inquisitor.
Hahaha fight club reference! I like that idea
rule number one: nobody talks about our night lords minions!

DING and I'm thinking instead of saving them once this group(who pulled legion of the damned tactics) saved the inquisitors several times, and warded off several attacks etc.

EDIT:another thing I want to mention is that these inquisitors have never really tried to bring these marines back into the fold, they are just using this group as a means to an end

Sounds cool, but expect to catch some nerdrage for your fluff choices!

How does it make sense that the night lords have saved your inquisitors? Why would they do this?
some things you should consider if you intend to go through with it

Mukkin'About wrote:Sounds cool, but expect to catch some nerdrage for your fluff choices!

How does it make sense that the night lords have saved your inquisitors? Why would they do this?
some things you should consider if you intend to go through with it

The nerdrage part is part of the fun imho (I love to troll people who act stick-up-the-buttish)
And I will get some more backstory/ logic as it spews from my mind

If you're doing it anyway, maybe have the groups Inquisitor fall to Chaos and be killed by another Inquisitor who teamed up with them to kill him and then takes over control of the group.

hmmm another interesting idea is that the Emperor supposedly occasionally talks to people/sends messages, so it could be possible he duped this group of CSM for awhile then emperors tarot showed future need for this group(i.e. end of times use), just an idea from my caffeine riddled skull

The first question I'd have would be: Why have these Night Lords abandoned the quest to avenge their father? Night Lords are an interesting chapter, as, depending on view point and who you speak to, they're either traitors or the betrayed.

Certainly from those who mentored these Astartes, they would have been taught that the Imperium discards people once they no longer need them, and that their 'father' must be avenged in blood, especially against the Callidus, and if they were there, well, they'd have seen it first hand, and experienced the 'betrayal'.

The second would be 'How radical is the Inquisitor for even taking this on? How are they keeping it concealed from their fellows/other Imperials? And how in the nine layers of hell did they get them not to kill them as soon as they got a chance.' Really, the select few Inquisitors that use tamed Daemonhosts are considered radical to the point they hide it from their fellows. How are they going to hide a squad/company of Astartes in the Night Lords livery doing their work for them, and how close are they to Chaos for actually entertaining this idea? (The other option, that they believe in the possibility of redemption for the Night Lords, is pretty much non-existant. Being nice gets you killed in the grimdark!)

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That'd be my two immediate fluff questions anyway, as it is a fluff choice you're making. Really, you can paint your Chaos Space Marines whatever you want, use the Space Marine codex and say they're 'renegade renegades', and it's your plastic army men to do with what you will.

But, you're going to have a hard time if you want to make it believeable in a lore-supported sense. There's truly a reason our friends at the Bolter and Chainsword recommend staying away from loyalist traitors when building a Space Marine Chapter, or anything closely resembling them.....because the Imperium of Man shoots first, and questions the corpse later....if they even bother to question the corpse.

There is room for a rogue inquisitor to allow such a thing. just like some use daemonhosts and other inquisitors would kill them and their master on sight if they seen such a thing yet it happens.


I could see a rogue inquisitor using them as a secret weapon.

no doubt the chapter and that inquisitor would be turned into apple sauce if it was found. but I think it has room in the 40st

Instead of renegade renegades why not have double agents? The Emporer sent some squads to be purposefully tainted by Chaos, after first strengthening their minds or what not. Now that they have the info they were sent in for, they return, with some nifty new abilities or ideas.

Shenra wrote:Instead of renegade renegades why not have double agents? The Emporer sent some squads to be purposefully tainted by Chaos, after first strengthening their minds or what not. Now that they have the info they were sent in for, they return, with some nifty new abilities or ideas.

hmmm maybe he did do that to begin with the night lords(a last laugh type of thing from the emperor) and that would explain the good geneseed

@Gamza thx for the support
@pelinore thats why i was thinking emperors tarot since I would not be surprised if inquisitors would commit exterminatus on terra if tarot said so(After high lords left and they figured out how to move the emperor safely)


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So I could actually set the founding much earlier than m35(maybe m32) and those who were hooked on chaos did not return to the imperium, but about a Codex Chapters worth did return

Codex: With Hunters

A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor.

No redeemed Chaos Space marines. Once a traitor always a traitor in the eyes of the Ordo Hereticus.

The Night Lords are probably the worst choice you could choose for a redeemed Chapter, they were possible the first to openly turn from the Imperium after blowing up Nostramo. They hate the Imperium for what it is and will fight until it's destroyed.

You could have a Radical Inquisitor using the services of a warband for hire, but the Night Lords I very much doubt it.

Yeah, the Night Lords are pretty much the most evil legion. They were after all recruited from pretty much the vilest people possible, so they are the worst choice you could ever make. Well, World Eaters would be pretty bad too.

If anything, you can have your story with Alpha Legionaires. They are not mutated and play both sides if you read a bit of fluff. So they would be the most realistic to join your Inquisitor. But in general, using arch-traitors is a bit off.

Mit Gas wrote:Yeah, the Night Lords are pretty much the most evil legion. They were after all recruited from pretty much the vilest people possible, so they are the worst choice you could ever make. Well, World Eaters would be pretty bad too.

If anything, you can have your story with Alpha Legionaires. They are not mutated and play both sides if you read a bit of fluff. So they would be the most realistic to join your Inquisitor. But in general, using arch-traitors is a bit off.

It is a bit off but I think its unique/cool, and I like the night lords preheresy tactics, and I havent read too much fluff yet(SW omnibus, UM omnibus, starting HH)

I think it's possible, you would need a lot of explanation but if you put some thought in I could see it being ok. I see the following problems:

Why do they want to return?
How did the persuade the Inquisitor to support them? Just appearing and saving him needs a bit more explanation. Did they go in with the intention (this would be very un-nightlordy) to save him or just happen to be nearby and grab him when the oppurtunity arose.

What role did they play in the heresy? How they viewed the heresy affects their belief now.

How do they view Curze and chaos?

SM aren't treated like other traitors by the majority of the imperium. Some inquisitors will kill them for heresy but their are cases of chapters returning and having to suffer a punishment before they are accepted (they are still not trusted), sometimes (rarely) the Sm survive the punishment.

If an inquisitor is happy to use a daemon (pure chaos) i am sure they would consider a CSM offer if they believed they could control them enough to stay alive.

NL are one of the most likely CSM for this idea. They never truly backed chaos (they just used the heresy as a chance to punish the imperium they saw as flawed) and hate it as much as loyalists. While the newer recruits (from the time of the heresy) will be criminal physcopaths Veteran NL who joined while nostramo was still an ordered place could still follow Curze's ideas and be neutral.

4M2A wrote:I think it's possible, you would need a lot of explanation but if you put some thought in I could see it being ok. I see the following problems:

Why do they want to return?
How did the persuade the Inquisitor to support them? Just appearing and saving him needs a bit more explanation. Did they go in with the intention (this would be very un-nightlordy) to save him or just happen to be nearby and grab him when the oppurtunity arose.

What role did they play in the heresy? How they viewed the heresy affects their belief now.

How do they view Curze and chaos?

SM aren't treated like other traitors by the majority of the imperium. Some inquisitors will kill them for heresy but their are cases of chapters returning and having to suffer a punishment before they are accepted (they are still not trusted), sometimes (rarely) the Sm survive the punishment.

If an inquisitor is happy to use a daemon (pure chaos) i am sure they would consider a CSM offer if they believed they could control them enough to stay alive.

NL are one of the most likely CSM for this idea. They never truly backed chaos (they just used the heresy as a chance to punish the imperium they saw as flawed) and hate it as much as loyalists. While the newer recruits (from the time of the heresy) will be criminal physcopaths Veteran NL who joined while nostramo was still an ordered place could still follow Curze's ideas and be neutral.

Thank you for the top bit bottom bit I am thinkin double agent(possibly emperor made contact with a chapter master before tshtf)and I am thinkin of possibly changing the founding date

4M2A wrote:
SM aren't treated like other traitors by the majority of the imperium. Some inquisitors will kill them for heresy but their are cases of chapters returning and having to suffer a punishment before they are accepted (they are still not trusted), sometimes (rarely) the Sm survive the punishment.

In some cased this is true e.g the Badab Incident - but these Chapters were deemed to be salvageable. The Night Lords are Traitoris Extremis and Excommunicate Traitoris, there's no coming back from that.

I suppose you could have a faction of Night Lords who were stationed on Nostramo at the time the Night Haunter destroyed it. They managed to escape in a Cruiser and are trying now to survive.

They hate the Imperium for what they did to the Legion but they hate their Primarch for what they did to Nostramo.

They rescued the Inquisitor to bargain a certain amount of safety for themselves.

So you have why they could be working with an Inquisitor covered as well as there background and opposition to the Imperium somewhat.

Actually ... that's not half bad

Pilau Rice wrote:I suppose you could have a faction of Night Lords who were stationed on Nostramo at the time the Night Haunter destroyed it. They managed to escape in a Cruiser and are trying now to survive.

They hate the Imperium for what they did to the Imperium but the hate their Primarch for what they did to Nostramo.

They rescued the Inquisitor to bargain a certain amount of safety for themselves.

So you have why they could be working with an Inquisitor covered as well as there background and opposition to the Imperium somewhat.

Actually ... that's not half bad

you my good sir are a genius(it sounds great and plausible)

Wardragoon wrote:
you my good sir are a genius(it sounds great and plausible)

Why thank you sir

I did edit it as some of what I put didn't make sense i.e the Imperium against the Imperium part