Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After having read First Heretic it got me thinking, can it be argued that Lorgar is the founder of both the Imperial Cult, worshiping the Emperor as divine AND the founder of the CSM Chaos cults since the Word Bearers were the ones who got everything started and explored Chaos and set up its worship as we know it? That is a deliciously ironic idea when you consider where Lorgar was in First Heretic wanting desperately to worship something greater than himself and in many ways ended up being the one who sets up the two great "faiths" of mankind.

Wasn't it the Dark Apostle guy who led to the corruption of the Word Bearers, and the other traitor legions?

Yes, Lorgar wrote the book of both faiths, unwittingly opposing his faith with his other faith.

Logar didn't excatly write the faith (choas) from scratch he more or lesss just put the pieces together

The Book of Lorgar was written using a lot of the old Faith of Colchis and not entirely written by Lorgar himself. A lot of input came from Kor Phaeron, master of the faith, and Erebus, who are both old school Colchisians. Other Chaplains like Xaphen had input into the Book of Lorgar as new ways to incite the rites and incantations were found.

The Lectitio Divinitatus on the other hand was apparently penned entirely by Lorgar. Which must of been a kick in the teeth after the whole Heresy thing.

One minute your worshiping your dad as a God. The you're being told he isn't one and then punished. Then you find new gods to worship and are trying to bring enlightenment to the galaxy to say my dad was wrong and that there are Gods. Then things have all gone wrong you're stuck in the Eye of Terror having to deal with the fact that it was your actions that put your dad in permanent intensive care and set him up as a God. Would that make you feel proud that you were right or a little cheated not being able to stand by your father.

I think that's one of the reasons why Lorgar is still in his temple. He still hasn't come to terms with the way he handled things. There might be Gods, but he has lost so much to find that out.

DA's Forever wrote:Logar didn't excatly write the faith (choas) from scratch he more or lesss just put the pieces together

Right, he codified the beliefs of the chaos worshiping humans during the time of Old Night. In any case he created both the Imperial Cult and the concept of the Emperor as being false and unworthy.

I think Lorgar regrets the Heresy completely, his actions at the end of First Heretic certainly indicate that he had serious regrets, He was more of a puppet figurehead for Kor Phaeron and Erebus for most of the book, I imagine him as a regretful nand bitter figure worshipping Gods he has come to dispise with little to do with his legion or their antics, on a side note i think it is kept a secret in the modern Imperium that Lorgar wrote the Lectitio Divinitatus, Imagine finding out the work your entire society and religion was based on was composed by one of the most hated and reviled figures to the Imperium? It would cause a massive crisis of faith.

Yeah, but he's still more interesting than the hated guilliman, am I right?

I read a post written by ADB himself that stated Lorgar will become more of the spokesman for Chaos that we all knew him as before the novels. While he was basically a puppet, he came into his own at the end of the novel, shrugging off Erebus and Kor Phaeron's advice/orders.

Another interesting note was that the Word Bearers were the first to induct Chaplains into their ranks, which raised Lorgar's brow on occasion.

True he did come into his own a bit more but only really to: