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 Greyhound wrote:
the bublechukka doesn't compare favourably with Forgeworld's big lobba.

The big lobba has:
- better range
- Always ST6
- better average AP which means it's as good or better half the time and worse half the time. However anytime you hit an Armour save 3+ or better you are probably hitting Toughness 4+ so the low ST of the bublechukka is invalidating that benefit.
- barrage and ordnance.

The big lobba in a big trakk (so AV12, ability to move, 2 free big shoota) cost just over 2 chukkas, but I am not convinced 2 chukkas can deliver better firepower than the BL.

Big Lobba has a ~28% chance to kill each marine it hits while the Bubble Chukka has a ~19% chance, assuming 5+ cover. Two BCs are significantly better at killing marines than a single BL.

 Deunstephe wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Who is writing this codex? Because so far, I'm pretty damn well impressed.
Yes, even with the bubble chucka. Do wish it was more interesting - bouncing around the board or whatever

Either Kelly or Vetok, I think. Could be Ward.

More likely to be the "Citadel Rules Team" as they don't associate a single person with the books anymore. Likely to decrease the focused Internet rage aimed at the writers.

So the big/Mek guns don't come with that Mek in all the pictures? I figured they would, but the box picture only shows the grots.

Price i am not a fan of, but the rules i do like, especially the mega and tractor kannon. My heavy support slots are going to be under some stiff competion now.

for marines yes, assuming the marines move in front of your bubbles, we play with heavy terrain and I do think that the mobility of placing the template where you want, with a mobile platform will be better than staying with two chukkas in the open, waiting for the marines to walk into your firing lane.

The Traktor kannon is utterly astonishing.

I was worried orks would have no answer to AA. It turns out I think orks ARE THE answer to FMC's and fliers.

For 30 points you get the best AA in the game on an astonishingly durable platform.

 Madcat87 wrote:
Price i am not a fan of, but the rules i do like, especially the mega and tractor kannon. My heavy support slots are going to be under some stiff competion now.

heavy support is receiving a lot of attention indeed
but we can now field 5 Gunz instead of 3 before, right?
and the Battlewagon may be a dedicated transport for most infantry units in the codex

also, don't forget about Unbound possibilities

pfff, who needs unbound? Battleforged is so utterly flexable, you can still take 3 batteries of big gunz and 4-5 battlewagons and STILL be battleforged.

what if you also want Flash Gitz, 'Orkanaut, ... ?

To be battleforged, you just need to follow force org charts. But now you're not limited to one force org. You can take 3-4 force org charts as long as you take an HQ and 2 troops per chart. So now... the sky's literally the limit. As long as you take a 35 point bigmek and 20 boyz, you can take practically unlimited heavy support choices.


I expect to see opponents stare in disbelief as competitive ork players deploy 45-60 big gunz (scratch built of course).

 44Ronin wrote:
Kustom Mega Kannon is a plasma cannon.

+1 S is a significant boost over a Plasma Cannon, as is the ability to survive Gets Hot pretty reliably. Great deal for 30 points.

You can get three mek guns for around the cost of two eldar distort cannons or one marine thunderfire cannon. I think those units are good and the ork stuff is even better. Way more shooting power than the Flash Gits. Tougher in many ways, too.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
lmao, $46 for one stupid little gun.

Um...no.

Just buy the gun bits off ebay and scratchbuild/kitbash the chassis

Or alternatively GW could just sell them for a reasonable price to begin with. Better for everyone involved, even GW in the long run, since I can't imagine they'll sell enough of those things at fething $46 a pop to make it worth producing the kit at all.

Yeah, I thought they were overpriced at $38, when I was comparing them to the $29 Forge World Kilkannon. At $46, they're 50% more expensive than the Forge World variant .

And yes, you have the different weapon options, but GW is not selling you the Mekgun to make multiple kits, they're selling it to you to make just the one. People say you can just scratch-build the chasis, but at this price why not just scratch-build a chasis, buy the luxury Forge World variant of the weapon you want, and save almost $20 per kit?

It's not to say the kit looks bad, I like it well enough. It's just unreasonably expensive for what amounts to a ~30-40 point gun.

Even if the new guns arent that awesome, which they seem like they are, the new gun rules are epic.

Five models in each unit. Eesh lol. And theyre cheaper. Stock big gun is 20pts for a Kannon, 25pts for Lobba, or 35pts for Zzap. The cost made Zzap batteries pointless as it countered the reason you take these things - cheap as hell foc-wasters that do enough to draw attention for next to no cost.
Theyre cheaper. By a lot. 7pts reduction for my lovely lobbas? oh baby! the points saved alone is a 4th lobba in the battery, cut off a couple boyz somewhere and i got a 5th (which at that point i'd rather split them up into different units if i can).

I will probably buy one for reference and officialness. Im kinda glad i never finished my previous kitbashes as theyre too small now if im looking at the image right, so i'd like to re-steal them wheels lol. These are going to replace lootas i bet, theyre sturdier cause T7, cheaper, and just as nasty (in theory).
And thanks to 7th i can use them AND a BW list! YAY! lol

These big gunz suddenly make the Gorkanaught make more sense.

The big gunz require high str shooting to remove, or close combat. So its a form of again, threat overload. Do you fight your STR 7-10 at the big gunz blowing the crap out of your army, or do you fight at the AV 13 monster giving them all a KFF and protecting them from counter assault?

 44Ronin wrote:
Result table =
1- Kills infantry on a 6, ignores armour
2 - Kills T4 infantry on a 6, T3 on 5, ignores armour.,
3 - ignores 3+ armour, wounds T4 on a 5, wounds T3 on a 4.
4 - ignores 4+ armour. wounds T4 on a 4, wounds T3 on a 3
5 - Same as Lobba
6 - Generally wounds infantry on 2+.

But misses most of the time anyway due to being a blast weapon crewed by Gretchin.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
Kustom Mega Kannon is a plasma cannon.

+1 S is a significant boost over a Plasma Cannon, as is the ability to survive Gets Hot pretty reliably. Great deal for 30 points.

Well spotted. Adds some extra punch against armour and uber toughness targets.

You can get three mek guns for around the cost of two eldar distort cannons or one marine thunderfire cannon. I think those units are good and the ork stuff is even better. Way more shooting power than the Flash Gits. Tougher in many ways, too.

5 Kannons for 90 points.
5 Lobbas for 90 points

Amazing Bargain.

T7, ....BS3 ....7 gun options.

morpheuschild wrote:

 BarBoBot wrote:

morpheuschild wrote:

hurtmypony wrote:

Leerjawise wrote:

Regardless, Killa Kans won't go to fast attack, they aren't exactly speedy.

Killa Kans are/were already Fast Attack as per the Dread Mob rules in Imperial Armour 8.

yeah, sure... but the imperial armor series are forge world books, not gw, and therefore supplemental rules. which means the current codex overrules them until gw publishes a book demonstrating otherwise. so they are heavy support, and not fast attack.
and i'd rather the big mek gain the ability to take kanz as a troops choice, like they can with dreads.

FW is GW. It's the same company. Everything FW makes is a GW product. I can post proof in the form of pics from the current FW catalogue, but to summarize, it states quite clearly that FW is GW.

no proof necessary.
it's a subsidiary. i am aware of forge world's position and function, dealing more online than in stores. ever notice that your local gw doesn't stock a lot of fw product, or that it wasn't until relatively recently that resin miniatures were available from gw/citadel directly?

Your mistaken. The FW catalog specifically says that FW is GW, and that they have their own team that controls the designs, manufacturing, shipping etc.

Saying FW isn't the same company as GW is like saying Nike makes men's shoes, and the design team that makes their women's shoes isnt Nike.

As for FW not being available until recently, that also not correct. The local chicago GW bunker had all the FW stocked since over 10 years ago. I used to go there all the time. It wasnt until a few years ago that they stopped selling it.

 insaniak wrote:

 44Ronin wrote:
Result table =
1- Kills infantry on a 6, ignores armour
2 - Kills T4 infantry on a 6, T3 on 5, ignores armour.,
3 - ignores 3+ armour, wounds T4 on a 5, wounds T3 on a 4.
4 - ignores 4+ armour. wounds T4 on a 4, wounds T3 on a 3
5 - Same as Lobba
6 - Generally wounds infantry on 2+.

But misses most of the time anyway due to being a blast weapon crewed by Gretchin.

Is the HIT result invalid?

5" template - average scatter 7 - 3" = 4". Still hits something right?

No rules for the SAG Mek? or did I miss them?

Leerjawise wrote:No rules for the SAG Mek? or did I miss them?

I wouldn't expect them to have changed significantly.

Not sure why people always assume a BS3/4 model firing a blast is going to miss. Theres two bullseye marks on the scatter die so that right there is a 1/3 chance to direct hit, and with average 2d6 being 7 you'd have to have pretty good BS to have a reliable hitting average. You dont fire blasts at a single model...ever....

Unless you scatter in the direction theres nothing in (proper placement limits that) and/or dont scatter WAY too far (less likely than hitting the unit you wanted to hit btw) youre going to hit something. I place my blasts, large and small, to accommodate for scattering so i always hit something - not maxing the units hit. I rarely miss, barring a bad Gets Hot! roll of course if it applies, because if i scatter i usually hit something else.

 nflagey wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I honestly can't even comprehend buying the guns instead of building them from bits.

With d6 weapons, are we rolling once per gun or once per battery? Because I think its per gun, meaning those random weapons are more reliable.

1. buying any guns at all? or buying 1 and then having fun building 2-3 more with the bits in the box and other stuff?

2. good point!
if you have 5 BubbleChukka in a unit, that could average out the luck ... but if any Bubble Chukka is bad (having looked at the maths), having 5 of them does not help

None, though thats certainly an alternative way to do it. (look at my flag - we get shafted pricewise down here!)

the bublechukka doesn't compare favourably with Forgeworld's big lobba.

It depends on what your looking for, and how good vehicles have really gotten in 7th.

 44Ronin wrote:
People still complaining.

This. Is. A. Huge. Point reduction

This is a huge WIN.

I absolutely agree. Especially on the bubble chucker - because of rolling per gun, its honestly not bad. If I'm mistaken and its per battery, I won't use them for the same reason I never used Zapp.

And Lobbas are already some of the most point efficient arty in the game, they'll be insane with a points decrease and batteries of five

Goresaw wrote:
The Traktor kannon is utterly astonishing.

I was worried orks would have no answer to AA. It turns out I think orks ARE THE answer to FMC's and fliers.

For 30 points you get the best AA in the game on an astonishingly durable platform.

Inb4 everyone allies in ork traktors at every tournament event, which is totally not cool.

Has nobody noticed the mega kannons - 30pts for a 6 wound, T7 3+ plasma cannon seems pretty ridiculous.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not sure why people always assume a BS3/4 model firing a blast is going to miss.

Because it is popular to be subjectively negative here about anything that isn't even remotely super strong or OP.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Not sure why people always assume a BS3/4 model firing a blast is going to miss. Theres two bullseye marks on the scatter die so that right there is a 1/3 chance to direct hit, and with average 2d6 being 7 you'd have to have pretty good BS to have a reliable hitting average.

Note my use of the word 'most' rather than 'always'...

Admittedly that's skewed somewhat by personal experience (I am a master at missing with blast weapons) but that's obviously by its very nature going to tint my perception of any new blast weapon. Being a blast weapon doesn't make it useless... but combined with the variable Strength and AP, it's just one more thing that makes it a less than stellar choice in my book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 44Ronin wrote:

Because it is popular to be subjectively negative here about anything that isn't even remotely super strong or OP.

Yeah, I'm totally all about being popular.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Has nobody noticed the mega kannons - 30pts for a 6 wound, T7 3+ plasma cannon seems pretty ridiculous.

Oh yeah that was definatly noticed.

Something I want clear up but probably belongs in a rules thread, how does Gets Hot work with Artillery? does the wound get applied to the firing model of the gun itself?

 insaniak wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 44Ronin wrote:

Because it is popular to be subjectively negative here about anything that isn't even remotely super strong or OP.

Yeah, I'm totally all about being popular.

You are, you sellout.

Overall, and bottom line is that the rules for big gunz are pretty good.

Let's mention, GW did not invalidate the old gunz and gave them a points cost reduction. Anyone whining about these rules, just whining for the sake of it.

Don't like the bubble chucka? Well there's 6 other gunz for you to choose from.

I never said you were popular on dakka. I said being negative is popular, and your only comments were negative ones.

How many users stick their noses in the thread and say something negative and offer nothing else? A lot, a damn lot.

Edit: Double post?

 Bonzofever wrote:
Smasha Gun is a decent weapon with our first AP1. I like the Traktor Kanon too, seems very orky and pretty useful at BS3.
However 30 points sound too much. 25 points should have been the way to go!

A battery of five fully outkitted with extra crew (wounds) and ammo runts (one reroll to hit) comes out to 195. You are damn near guaranteed to take out a flyer, likely trash a FMC with that, especially as the grounding test becomes practically an auto-fail. I don't see the problem with that cost. Seriously, it's going to just wreck any flyers your opponent brings.

 44Ronin wrote:
Anyone whining about these rules, just whining for the sake of it.

Because dismissing opinions that differ from your own as whining is such a productive way to encourage discussion...

Don't like the bubble chucka? Well there's 6 other gunz for you to choose from.

And that's great... but won't change my opinion of the bubble chucka.

The purpose of discussion isn't only to point out what's good.

I never said you were popular on dakka. I said being negative is popular, and your only comments were negative ones.

I've made several comments throughout this thread about things I liked.

If you're going to take offense at people being overly negative, at least try to find someone who is, you know, actually being overly negative.


Or don't. That's probably a better idea.