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Sometimes I really don't see the point of the astronomican. All the other races and factions of the galaxy get along fine with it, and we never had one in the dark age of technology. Can anyone tell me how its useful?

Well I know its all sci-fi but I always thought if it like this......

If you know where in the physical world Terra is and you can see the astronomican relative to your position in the warp you know at least one point in the warp that corresponds to a point in the material world, and from that I just kind of assumed the navigators with their warp eye were able to figure out where to go in the warp to come out at thier destination in the material world. I mean I know that geometrically you would need two points to come up with a kind of warpspace/material world scale to use but I assume where they came in would provide the other corresponding warpspace/material world point they could use to calculate their course? I am probably overthinking this like the nerd that I am.

Im pretty sure with the falll of the eldar and the onset of the age of strife the warp storms got a LOT worse, I would say fluffwise that is why they didnt need it before.

As far as other races go the eldar use the webway, which if I understand correctly means they dont travel by entering the same tumultous warp space that Imperial ships do. I think orcs just kind of jump and then come out where they come out? Tyranids I dunno you got me on that one. Tau I dont think really travel that far to need warp navigation as I think they are pretty much stuck in a little bitty part of the galaxy trying to stay alive/expand slowly.

Just my thoughts, hope that helps.

You can't navigate by quasar beacons in the warp.

During the dark age of technology, warp travel was slow with multiple short jumps and most long distance travels where in multigenerational ships.

Eldar/dark eldar use the webway for most long distance travel.

Tau are too small an empire to need long distance warp travel.

Tyranids don't care where they go as long as it has food.

Orks don't care where they go as long as there is war and i would suppose the psychic ripple of a warrgh would be strong enough to guide orks.

Necrons don't use the warp, they have actual material universe faster than light travel.

Chaos space marines probably have the guidence of the gods to help them.

I see the Astronomican as the North Star was to sea travels.

As said above it acts as a north star. Humans live in a specific territory, with many planets depending on each other. This means that one must be able to repeatedly navigate from one planet to another and back.

Why relay on one astronomican on Terra? Why not build one on every major Imperial planet?

BluntmanDC wrote:During the dark age of technology, warp travel was slow with multiple short jumps and most long distance travels where in multigenerational ships.

Astronomican only became required because the Warp became highly dangerous(I remember that some ships were capable of long distance jumps without Astronomican or even Navigators).


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Brother Coa wrote:Why relay on one astronomican on Terra? Why not build one on every major Imperial planet?

Because it takes a lot of psychic power and a psyker of the Emperor's level for one to function.

The Astronomican is required for long distance, high speed Warp travel. Otherwise the ship can drop out of Warp space, triangulate on quasars, and go back into Warp.

Few IoM ships actually need to do long distance, high speed Warp travel.

The real purpose of the Astronomican is to be Grimdark(tm).

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau are too small an empire to need long distance warp travel.

Tyranids don't care where they go as long as it has food.

For the tau, it is pretty much the other way around. The tau warp technology is very limited, which means that their ships can only travel short distances and at very low speed, which explains why the tau empire is so small. It is said in the Battlefleet Gothic fluff that the fastest tau ships can only reach 1/3 of an average imperial warship's warp-speed. In general, Tau warp-jumps are 4-5 times slower than Imperial warp jumps. This is maily due to the fact that the Tau are "warp-virgins". They are blank. There is no such thing as a tau psyker. Which means that they have very little understanding of the warp. As a result, they were forced to develop their own warp travel technology by copying a crashed imperial ship.

Tyranid warp travel is much more complicated. I hace read a few articles on this question and I still don't understand how the nids are able to do faster than light travel. Apparently, the nids use a special bio-ship, called a Narvhal which is able to "sense" the gravity field of the planet the hive fleet wants to reach. It then somehow captures and condensates this gravity field, "creating a corridor of compressed space" (whatever that means) allowing it and its hive fleet to travel towards this planet at a swift rate.
Hence, nids do not use warp travel, but some kind of strange faster-than-light technology.

Laodamia wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Tau are too small an empire to need long distance warp travel.

Tyranids don't care where they go as long as it has food.

For the tau, it is pretty much the other way around. The tau warp technology is very limited, which means that their ships can only travel short distances and at very low speed, which explains why the tau empire is so small. It is said in the Battlefleet Gothic fluff that the fastest tau ships can only reach 1/3 of an average imperial warship's warp-speed. In general, Tau warp-jumps are 4-5 times slower than Imperial warp jumps. This is maily due to the fact that the Tau are "warp-virgins". They are blank. There is no such thing as a tau psyker. Which means that they have very little understanding of the warp. As a result, they were forced to develop their own warp travel technology by copying a crashed imperial ship.

I know about Tau warp travel issues, i was commenting on why they don't need an astronmican, short jumps don't need a astronomican.

The main reason that the Tau aren't a big empire is more due to the fact that they have so many habitable worlds in such a small amout of space, once these worlds run out i would imagine a rapid increase in researching warp travel would be seen in the Tau.

The Eldar, Necrons, Tyranids, Kroot and NeoSquats all have their own versions of FTL which don't rely on the Astronomican. It's only a matter of time before the Tau manage to replicate or copy one or several of these.

Does anyone know how the kroots and the demiurg perform FTL travel?

I suppose the Kroots use a technology similar to the tau small warp jumps, since these two races are close allies, but it is ust a supposition...

The Kroot developed their system independently of the Tau. We don't know how it works.

I heard the Imperium has started building astronomical station on all important Imperial worlds. So in theory astronomican will not be so important to them in future.

Brother Coa wrote:I heard the Imperium has started building astronomical station on all important Imperial worlds. So in theory astronomican will not be so important to them in future.

No.

They are to my knowledge "mini-Astronomicans".I'll try to dig additional info.

IvanTih wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I heard the Imperium has started building astronomical station on all important Imperial worlds. So in theory astronomican will not be so important to them in future.

No.

They are to my knowledge "mini-Astronomicans".I'll try to dig additional info.

He may be confusing them with the Astropathic choirs that were created to ensure better contact with vital worlds.

If I remember well, astropathic choirs were also meant to "boost" the fading power of the astronomican. They are not "small, secondary beacons". Their role is closer to additionnal "power batteries" to the Astronomican. I don't know how astropathic choirs work though...

Tau are always said to "bounce" off the barrier between the warp and real space and accelerate off. It's a bit daft sounding IMO

Necron phase their ships anywhere they want it would seem.

Orks think about where they want to go and just go through the warp, how quickly they get there is pretty random though.

As everyone is saying its like the north star, used for positioning

The astronomican has dimmed 'recently' dont know how hard that makes warp travel but it think the further away from terra the harder it becomes.

I know it's been said that the tyranids are drawn in by it

IvanTih wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:I heard the Imperium has started building astronomical station on all important Imperial worlds. So in theory astronomican will not be so important to them in future.

No.

They are to my knowledge "mini-Astronomicans".I'll try to dig additional info.

Here, from the Lexicanum: "Bloodquest tells the story of the Blood Angels Captain Leonatos. Chapter Commander Lord Dante sends him and his company of 100 Space Marines on a mission to protect an Adeptus Astronomica warp station on Sekundar Prime from a massive Ork invasion."

a) Lexicanum isn't always the most reliable of sources.

b) It can't replace the central Astronomicon beacon. Nothing can. You need a psyker of the Emperor's power to just control the bloody thing, and you have to sacrifice 10,000 psykers a day to power it. The Astronomicon can't be replicated...its signal can be boosted, but it can't be replicated.

ChrisWWII wrote:a) Lexicanum isn't always the most reliable of sources.

b) It can't replace the central Astronomicon beacon. Nothing can. You need a psyker of the Emperor's power to just control the bloody thing, and you have to sacrifice 10,000 psykers a day to power it. The Astronomicon can't be replicated...its signal can be boosted, but it can't be replicated.

a) I read a comic, this information is reliable. Only I can't remember where I keep it.

b) Then what is this warp station doing?

a) ....That doesn't help much either.

b) Like I said, bossting the strength of the Astronomicon. It's a signal repeater, not a mini-Astronomicon. If the Imperium was building a bunch of mini-Astronoimicon's I'd like to know where they found all the Alpha Plus psykers they'd need.

ChrisWWII wrote:It's a signal repeater, not a mini-Astronomicon. If the Imperium was building a bunch of mini-Astronoimicon's I'd like to know where they found all the Alpha Plus psykers they'd need.

Well Imperium is quite a large empire....
maybe AP are not so rare among the population...?

ChrisWWII wrote:a) Lexicanum isn't always the most reliable of sources.

b) It can't replace the central Astronomicon beacon. Nothing can. You need a psyker of the Emperor's power to just control the bloody thing, and you have to sacrifice 10,000 psykers a day to power it. The Astronomicon can't be replicated...its signal can be boosted, but it can't be replicated.

Eh, I think its more like 1,000 psykers every 3 months but nontheless They can only afford one.


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ChrisWWII wrote:a) ....That doesn't help much either.

b) Like I said, bossting the strength of the Astronomicon. It's a signal repeater, not a mini-Astronomicon. If the Imperium was building a bunch of mini-Astronoimicon's I'd like to know where they found all the Alpha Plus psykers they'd need.

Brother Coa wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:It's a signal repeater, not a mini-Astronomicon. If the Imperium was building a bunch of mini-Astronoimicon's I'd like to know where they found all the Alpha Plus psykers they'd need.

Well Imperium is quite a large empire....
maybe AP are not so rare among the population...?

You don't need an Alpha-plus to be in the Astronomicon choir. Just a regular psyker that's gone to "Astronomicon college" for lack of a better term.

Only the IoM uses Warp Travel in a way that would need the Astronimican.


Orks usually hijack a Space Hulk(which has a Warp Drive) and build a bunch of Roks to go with it. when the Hulk reenters the Warp the Roks do too and Wierd Boyz follow the Hulks beacon in the Warp.

the Space Hulk goes where it goes and the Orks really don't care where. alternativly, orks take some Imperial Ships and get the power to enter the warp from those. Wierd boyz act as Navigators and transport the ships to a world that needs crumpin.


Tyranids use Narvals. these Bio Ships latch onto a planets gravitational pull(from accross the void) and, using their Psychic powers, allow the planet to pull the Hive fleet closer(falling towards the planet faster and faster)

this isn't as fast as normal warp travel, but it is reliable.


the T'au use a partly reversed engeneered Warp Drive to partially enter the Warp and hop to a nearby planet. this has a limited range and the T'au really can't expand further then they already have untill they either accuire some Psykers or learn how to increase the range of their jumps.


the Eldar use the Webway which is part of the Material universe and the Warp and as such connects to both. it protects the Eldar from Deamonic entities and this is why the Emperor was trying to access it. we could have stopped using Warp travel and used the Webway instead.


the Necrons use some sort of FTL travel in universe. they can cross the Galaxy in seconds with no need for Warp Travel(which is uncomprehensable to a race with no Warp abilities)

Brother Coa wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:a) Lexicanum isn't always the most reliable of sources.

b) It can't replace the central Astronomicon beacon. Nothing can. You need a psyker of the Emperor's power to just control the bloody thing, and you have to sacrifice 10,000 psykers a day to power it. The Astronomicon can't be replicated...its signal can be boosted, but it can't be replicated.

a) I read a comic, this information is reliable. Only I can't remember where I keep it.

b) Then what is this warp station doing?

It acts as a signal booste. Just think about it like a tv network, the astronomican releases 'god emperor daily' and these warp stations transmit it in more distant areas. The warp stations allow the picture to be scene, but don't make the picture.

huh I almost wonder if Necrons use some type of portal technology(pure speculation of course) I remember reading somewhere that Tau use small jumps through the warp rather than fully immerse into the warp, Tyranids use plot holes to get from point A to B, and I think a Psyker like Tigurius could run the Astronomicon if need be (but why replace what is not thought to be broken)

Only the Emperor can control the Astronomican.

Malcador MIGHT have been able to, but he's dead.



the Necrons use FTL tech. how it's accomplished or powered we can't know.

I thought the Necron travel was explained as reducing the mass/inertia of their ships until the weakest force sent them hurtling through space at faster than light speed, with the excuse that A Wizard C'tan Did It for why that works.

As a note for the Necron's their weapons break physics as the IoM knows it, so it's plausible they do something crazy like bend space/time.