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so, being a conversion madman, i like the Court fo the Archon from a modeling perspective. i already have some neat conversions made to represent the exotic xenos in the employ of my Archon.

but as a unit, supporting the Archon, are they worth it? i don't get a chance to play often (and haven't played with my DE yet) so i have little to base my suppositions on. has anyone out there fielded one, and what was your experience? any suggested configurations/loadouts?

any advice greatly appreciated!

-C6

I've seen a lot of criticism of it, but looking at it myself, it doesn't seem any worse than Beastmasters, and has the advantage of having ranged weapons and the ability to take a transport. Honestly, I think it beats a comparable point value of Grotesques as an assault unit, especially since it has fleet (and doesn't explode without an IC in the unit).

They are pretty solid, most people are probably in the opposite situation to you though, they are put off using them because their aren't any models.

I can see them working well in an assault based mech list, particularly in lists where you are using your Elites slots for Blaster Trueborn (so can't fit Incubi). They are a good alternative to Beast Masters, who won't always fit in with a completely mech list, but can be helpful if you have already filled up all your Fast Attack slots with Reavers or Scourges (although it would be very unusual not to have Elite slots left if you take 3 FA).

Hrm, i am planning to get around to Beastmasters eventually, and Scourges and Grotesques. but fiddling around with random aliens has its conversion appeal. thanks for the thoughts!

-C6

I normally run a Huskblade Archon with a squad of Incubi (assault powerhouse!), but the Court have some very interesting options. Seeing as my friend group is more than fine with proxying, I might test the Court tonight and tell you what I think of them.

Havew only managed to play one game with a court.
The guy who built the list didn't know what the limits were on each model, so only took one of each.
That said, regardless of the lack of "maximizing" the unit, I didn't see anything that looked to be worth bothering with.
YMMV.

Eric

I've considered running an archon, maxed sylthh and minimal others court with Urien attached in a raider. Tis gives you a T5 FnP unit for delivering your archon.

Other than that the juries out until more people play it (IMO)

i had planned on using the Medusae, if for no other reason than i have an (IMHO) AWESOME conversion already made for it. in addition, i am working on using some Skaven conversions for the Sylthh (i know they're not reptiles, but i wasn't pleased with my attempted Lizardmen conversions)

maybe i'll make the unit for fun, but in the end use Incubi in actual games.

They have some decent abilities but nothing mind blowing. I see them as sort of a beastmaster/wrack hybrid I guess (psuedo liquifier, FnP, some higher T to shunt wounds too, fleet, some shooting, some poison, good number of attacks) but in most instances either beastmasters or wracks would serve a list better (speed and rending on the former, scoring on the later). The lack of some sort of rending, high S or armor ignoring attack limits their overall usefulness.

However like most unlockable retinues they do have the advantage of not taking up key slots -- so they may have a use in larger games or when MSUing your list. The modeling potential is pretty nice (my main reason for liking them in all honesty) but that is seperate from their tactical applications.

MagickalMemories wrote:Havew only managed to play one game with a court.
The guy who built the list didn't know what the limits were on each model, so only took one of each.
That said, regardless of the lack of "maximizing" the unit, I didn't see anything that looked to be worth bothering with.
YMMV.

Eric

So you saw a single game, with a poorly setup unit, and didn't think it was worthwhile? Sslyth and Ur-ghul both have five and four S5 attacks on the charge respectively, both start with FnP and have fleet. Sslyth are basically fleet Grotesques that get one more attack, a better armor save, and a shardcarbine, at the price of a single wound. Ur-ghul much the same, only without the armor save, two less wounds, and a higher init. A unit that loaded up on those would be an absolute monster in CC. 275 points gets you a ten model unit that has 35 S5 attacks on the charge (twenty at I6, 15 at I4), 3 poisoned(2+) (at I5), and two S3 (at I5), in a raider with flickerfields.

The only thing it really needs is a source of grenades, and it could lose an Ur-ghul for an Archon (which you're already taking, if you're taking an Archon Court) with a phantasm grenade launcher.

wizard12 wrote:I've considered running an archon, maxed sylthh and minimal others court with Urien attached in a raider. Tis gives you a T5 FnP unit for delivering your archon.

Ur-ghuls and Sslyth start with FnP, and Ur-Ghuls start with FC.

I think they are suitably nasty to warrent taking.

Incubi are great against MeQ but dont really have it vs GeQ. Add in all the other things in 40k and you will see. Incubi kill MeQ and struggle, or are not worth the points against everything else. The court is a nice heavy option that will fair well against most things. I would not go for it in a smaller game, but in a larger one they should be good.

Compared to Grotesques, Sslyth are great.

Hmmm... I just played around with a script that rolls a sufficiently large number of sets of attacks against a chosen to hit, to wound, and save (because my calculations were quite obviously wrong (and need to be examined for what exactly is wrong with them, because they return the correct numbers for lower numbers of attacks...), returning such insane things as better than even odds to inflict 30+ wounds against GEQ...). Repeated runs show Incubi and an Archon court as functionally identical against MEQ. Ten incubi perform slightly better than an Archon Court with three Sslyth, five Ur-ghuls, a Lhamaean, and a Medusae against a ten man Tac squad. Both inflict about 6-7 wounds, and take about one in return. This is, note, doing each initiative step individually, with the expected casualties taken into account in subsequent I steps. Against GEQ there's no question the court is superior, inflicting about six more wounds. About what an equivalent point cost in wyches would do. They also have the ability to chew up AV10-11, something Incubi lack, though wyches are still better against vehicles.

DE got Q-U-I-T-E a number of units to destroy troops with. What they need is a good way to kill tanks.

Buy reavers later on. They are more tank killy then helions, but not as mutch as scourges.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:Havew only managed to play one game with a court.
The guy who built the list didn't know what the limits were on each model, so only took one of each.
That said, regardless of the lack of "maximizing" the unit, I didn't see anything that looked to be worth bothering with.
YMMV.

Eric

So you saw a single game, with a poorly setup unit, and didn't think it was worthwhile? Sslyth and Ur-ghul both have five and four S5 attacks on the charge respectively, both start with FnP and have fleet. Sslyth are basically fleet Grotesques that get one more attack, a better armor save, and a shardcarbine, at the price of a single wound. Ur-ghul much the same, only without the armor save, two less wounds, and a higher init. A unit that loaded up on those would be an absolute monster in CC. 275 points gets you a ten model unit that has 35 S5 attacks on the charge (twenty at I6, 15 at I4), 3 poisoned(2+) (at I5), and two S3 (at I5), in a raider with flickerfields.

I had an opportunity to see what each model was capable of, for its' points, and I wasn't impressed. As I said, *Y*mmv.
There are enough other units in the game that I can find other ways to spend the points that *I* will find more valuable.

Eric