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Q. I've been building two different types of Russ chasis recently, the first is based off the Chimera chasis-if you've read the Pick A Damn Army blog its the AT70-, and the other based off of the Russ chasis, but elongated to look like a Macharius-taken from the Arnan blog on Warseer. Now what I want to know is if there are two particular loadout for Russes that stick out above all others, as in which pair are the most effective, so as I can model each type of tank differently. I was concidering mounting a Vanquiser Cannon on the larger one and perhaps twin autocannons (yeah they're useless when Hyrdras are available, I know), just because the later looks a little too titchy to mount a battle cannon, at least without me modeling a smaller one. Usual opponents are marines, but for fluff reasons if I were to include an Executioner I'd have to make it have a count as turret.

Yay for convolutedness.

I'd say the standard one and the Demolisher.

Normal leman russ and the demolisher are the best variants for my money. If you think your turret looks a little weedy, well there's nothing stopping you making a slightly smaller cannon. After all the normal cannon is so huge they can't have space for more than a dozen shells in the tank!

Nothing puts more fear into your opponent then the Executioner. Yes it is a lot of points, but it does the job almost every single time and your opponent always has to account for it.

I would rank as follows:

Offensive Capabilities -
1. Executioner
2. Demolisher
3. Leman Russ MBT

Cost effectiveness -
1. Demolisher
2. MBT
3. Executioner

I tend to run a standard russ and an executioner. Gives a good mix of heavy infantry killing and anti-vehicle oomph.

Vanilla Russ and the Demolisher, though the Executioner is always a great tank, so pick any of those three and you're golden.

Da-Rock wrote:
I would rank as follows:

Offensive Capabilities -
1. Executioner
2. Demolisher
3. Leman Russ MBT

Cost effectiveness -
1. Demolisher
2. MBT
3. Executioner

I agree with this for the most part. It really just depends on how lucky you are with the scatter die. In my last game I was able to get 2 hits on a clumped up unit of terminators with my Executioner. 11 Hits, 9 wounds 6 dead terminators. Then it became a huge fire magnet because my opponent was really pissed off he lost that many terminators, ohh forgot to add the Emperors champion was killed aswell. All for 190 points. No sponsons. However if you miss with 2/3 shots every turn its not as effective. It also loose a lot of effectiveness (more so than the LRBT or Demolisher IMHO) when your opponent spreads out.

Right, I think I'll go for Executioners on the smaller ones, still haven't got a clue about how I'll convert the counts as for these, and battle cannons (for most games)/vanquiser cannons (appearance wise) on the larger ones. I've got a few spare scratch build demolisher cannons laying about too, so they may find some use in another russ varient at a future date, just a pitty that fielding them all at once would be tactically unflexible-I've got way too many heavy support vehicles as it is. So, uh, yeah, anyone got any ideas for a "count as" executioner cannon? Fluff dictates that my army doesn't have acess to plasma weapons, and only the odd las weapon as well. This may be a tricky one. ¬¬

I would just like to point out that a small blast template has a little bit less that half the coverage area of a 5" blast template.

large blast area = 19.63"
small blast = 7.06"

iirc, the executioner has blast 3 right? so it does, technically, have a larger total coverage.

Once again, the regular or the demolisher.

Everything else is either way overpriced for what it does, or is LUDOCROUSLY overpriced for what it does. The only ones I'd even consider other than the above two are the exterminator and the executioner, but only in very certain, specific circumstances.

And for the record, the executioner's blast template is 1.5" in radius, and models can be spaced 2" apart and still be in coherency. Executioners won't do jack if your opponent doesn't want them to.

Ailaros wrote:Once again, the regular or the demolisher.

Everything else is either way overpriced for what it does, or is LUDOCROUSLY overpriced for what it does. The only ones I'd even consider other than the above two are the exterminator and the executioner, but only in very certain, specific circumstances.

And for the record, the executioner's blast template is 1.5" in radius, and models can be spaced 2" apart and still be in coherency. Executioners won't do jack if your opponent doesn't want them to.

LOL! Won't do jack. Gotta love the logic there. I guess because you said so that its real so I'll ignore the long standing results against the vast armies I've played against that have a hard time dealing with 5 small blast templates that don't stay in one spot due to scatter and kill tons of models and transports each game. We all know that if an opponent spreads fairy dust over it's Terminators or Death Company and restrict your scatter to one model on 5 tries that no one will die, oh wait, that's utter garbage! :-)

Demolisher and standard.

Both can be used to slay infantry or vehicles if needed. Plus both have the long history of use, unlike some of the newer variants. We have had other tanks come and go over the years but you know that a guard codex will have these two.

Stalwart, versatile and cheap. Can't go wrong.

I know that this has already been said but, regular leman russ and demolisher ftw.

Da-Rock wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Once again, the regular or the demolisher.

Everything else is either way overpriced for what it does, or is LUDOCROUSLY overpriced for what it does. The only ones I'd even consider other than the above two are the exterminator and the executioner, but only in very certain, specific circumstances.

And for the record, the executioner's blast template is 1.5" in radius, and models can be spaced 2" apart and still be in coherency. Executioners won't do jack if your opponent doesn't want them to.

LOL! Won't do jack. Gotta love the logic there. I guess because you said so that its real so I'll ignore the long standing results against the vast armies I've played against that have a hard time dealing with 5 small blast templates that don't stay in one spot due to scatter and kill tons of models and transports each game. We all know that if an opponent spreads fairy dust over it's Terminators or Death Company and restrict your scatter to one model on 5 tries that no one will die, oh wait, that's utter garbage! :-)

Good spacing can *seriously* hamper blast effectiveness. Just the other day I saw a guard blob take four shots from EML, and it scored. . . . four hits when they all landed in the middle of the unit. Anecdotal? Yes. Proof of concept, absolutely.

And more on-topic: Demolisher, then Executioner.

While I agree that spacing can keep the small blasts from taking out a horde, they can still lay down some pain on the heavy infantry that I usually shoot them at. Three hits on a group of terminators, not bad. But if things scatter well, it's easily gotten over six hits. They're still quite useful despite the opponent's ability to minimize their damage, but they lose a lot of effectiveness against hordes.

LRBT all the way. Demolisher too short range, Executioner too expensive, Others well not really much good IMO

I'd rather use Plasma guns from my vets to kill Terminators BTW.

Da-Rock wrote:LOL! Won't do jack. Gotta love the logic there.

I do love the logic.

A weapon shoots three shots and gets one hit per shot. Throw in cover and the fact that you still don't wound anything on a one, and you're looking at spending nearly 200 points to kill a single model per turn.

Of course, if you're facing against a lot of idiots who like to cluster their troops in base-to-base outside of cover, then yeah, the executioner would be outstanding.

LRBT is nice. A cheap armor 14 that can fire fron turn 1 on. The Executioner is more specialised and can be used if your army is lacking ap 1-2 weapons, especially at range. It can be used highly successfully against DOA and Daemon armies who both deep strike in clusters. I like to use the Executioner as a safeguard against Tervigon Tyranid lists. It gets around the Tervigons FnP, which the LRBT can not, and the Tyranid MC's are so big you rarely miss with the small template. It is much more survivable against the bugs then a Vendetta would be because the bug gun of choice is the Hive Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:A weapon shoots three shots and gets one hit per shot. Throw in cover and the fact that you still don't wound anything on a one, and you're looking at spending nearly 200 points to kill a single model per turn.

Of course, if you're facing against a lot of idiots who like to cluster their troops in base-to-base outside of cover, then yeah, the executioner would be outstanding.

A Guard army should outshoot most everything else it would play against. It's weakness is therefore is assault. To assault the Guard the enemy would have to cross the field and therefor be outside of cover. That is when you use the Executioner. Usually the most fearful assault elements the Guard will face are on large bases which help mitigate the Executioners small blast template.

Regular and Demolisher are the two most cost-effective. The executioner is fun, but to make it a beast, you need to pimp it out, pushing the cost to 230 points and more.

Gavo wrote:Regular and Demolisher are the two most cost-effective. The executioner is fun, but to make it a beast, you need to pimp it out, pushing the cost to 230 points and more.

I've had perfectly acceptable results from running it with just a heavy flamer or heavy bolter on the front, and no sponsons.

The Executioner is also great for killing things like TWC, enemies that have spilled out of transport, and enemies that just charged one of your cheap Chimeras. It is great at killing bunched up enemies and seams like it would be wonderful for dealing with DoA Blood Angels.

You could magnetize the kit and use the load out that makes the most sense depending upon the opponent

Mike

I agree with the Battle Cannon and Demolisher assessment. However, the Nova cannon has recently surprised me during a local tournament. It was able to take out BA scouts during one battle, and lots of Orks in two other battles which had a KFF. And didn't do half bad to some nids. In fact, I had better luck with the Eradicator then the Executioner, which underperformed for me.

Also, magnetize it!

The Executioner has the most offensive capability when you consider range and firepower. The demolisher with plasma sponsons is not far behind. Those two are the most powerful, IMO.

The regular russ is excellent as other have said and price effective.

The exterminator is great, but when you compare it to 2 Hydras, it really loses its appeal.

The other tanks are cool (Punisher is way over costed) but don't get much play time, typically. The Eradicator is good if you know who you're playing. KFF Orks, etc.

DarthDiggler wrote:A Guard army should outshoot most everything else it would play against. It's weakness is therefore is assault. To assault the Guard the enemy would have to cross the field and therefor be outside of cover. That is when you use the Executioner. Usually the most fearful assault elements the Guard will face are on large bases which help mitigate the Executioners small blast template.

Actually, larger bases hurt small blast templates as it means that the troops can cover an even broader area.

And I assault stuff all the time, AND I dont' get chewed apart by template weapons. Unless you just came out of deepstriking and didn't run, or just got out of close combat with a terrible consolidate roll or something, there are very few times when your opponent needs to be bunched up. If they're volunteering to bunch up for you, then that's great for you, but you shouldn't expect such a luxury.

Oh, and guard are not weak in assault if you build them to be good in assault.

Ailaros wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:A Guard army should outshoot most everything else it would play against. It's weakness is therefore is assault. To assault the Guard the enemy would have to cross the field and therefor be outside of cover. That is when you use the Executioner. Usually the most fearful assault elements the Guard will face are on large bases which help mitigate the Executioners small blast template.

Actually, larger bases hurt small blast templates as it means that the troops can cover an even broader area.

And I assault stuff all the time, AND I dont' get chewed apart by template weapons. Unless you just came out of deepstriking and didn't run, or just got out of close combat with a terrible consolidate roll or something, there are very few times when your opponent needs to be bunched up. If they're volunteering to bunch up for you, then that's great for you, but you shouldn't expect such a luxury.

Oh, and guard are not weak in assault if you build them to be good in assault.

who do you play against who spreads the units out that thin and makes everything else have an easy go at it. If my opponent was spread out so far that 5 small blast couldn't kill enough you would not only NOT have to worry about his other units coming that way due to the blockade, but I could blast it from almost anywhere and blob it which would result in only a few of his models getting hits in first round.

Like I've said, I've played against bad and good players, it always does what I need even if I get some jumble head to spreadout that far. If you are Guard and 230 points scares you then you have been playing too many conservative lists or Gunlines w/ Blobs.

¬¬ Yeah, so I think the standard and Executioner options'll do fine for me. I'd say it'd be a rare game when I'd be using all four, or six if you count the two demolishers in the works. I could well just magnetise the guns, but I'm not in the mood to make three different types of guns for each turret variant, nor would it work for the Thunderer style Demolishers. Meh, most of my opponents play assault driven Marine armies, either of the LandRaider hopping Black Templar kind or the Flying wittle Sanquinery Guard sort, with the odd ork horde thrown in for flavour, so there's always a lot to target- that's why I dropped my usual CC driven army to play a heavy weapon/tank heavy guard army to see if I could blow them off the table before they even got most of their guys into close combat.

LRMBT, Demolisher and Executioner are, in my opinion, the best variants.

@ all the people saying 'just spread your units out'. Well, yes this is a no brainer, but that's why, like everything else in 40k you combine units to greater effect. An opponent spread every model in his 30-man blob 2"apart? Tank shock it straight down the middle/flank. Now he's all nicely bunched up for those templates. Assaulted a vehicle? He's all bunched up. Bad roll to move through cover? Bunched up. There's plenty of ways to manipulate your opponent to break his 2"coherency, which in turn increases the effectiveness of your own blast weapons.

L. Wrex

ElCheezus wrote:

Gavo wrote:Regular and Demolisher are the two most cost-effective. The executioner is fun, but to make it a beast, you need to pimp it out, pushing the cost to 230 points and more.

I've had perfectly acceptable results from running it with just a heavy flamer or heavy bolter on the front, and no sponsons.

Just to chime in on this bit - that's 190 points. Why not take a standard russ with plasma sponsons instead? Seems like you get more bang (unless you're exclusively shooting at 2+ save troops) and although you can't fire quite as much on the move, you do become less vulnerable to weapon destroyed results. Longer range too.

With the "naked" Executioner, you get all three plasma shots on the move. My entire force is usually pretty mobile, and anything that stays in place gets left on it's own pretty quickly. Also, I usually take it exactly for 2+ infantry, or MCs. My general theory is that weapons should either be AP 2, voume of fire, or special purpose (Hellhound).

For me, a LRBT gets overshadowed by the Demoliser when I consider adding a Russ. Since it's mobile, it's doesn't have a *huge* problem with range (thought I'd seriously love 36" if I didn't have to lose so much armor and take the Medusa)

If I want high Str AP 3 blast, I'd take a basilisk. It's cheaper, gets to hide in back and use indirect fire, plus has higher Str. Basically the range of the LRBT doesn't appeal to me because it's equivalents have the same range.

Also, don't forget that the Executioner and Demolisher have rear AV 11. Being immune to rear bolter fire or Adrenal Gland 'Nids is HOT.

I think Vanilla is the best.
The Demo is nice but it is also limited. Sure it can kill Terminators and Mega Armored nobs but its high S is really only useful against uber vehicles and S8 ordinance is usually enough to crack anything that is not a LR. The 24" range also means your target selection is much less.

I play DE mostly and I cringe when I see a LRBT but sigh when I see the demo. Obviously the LRBT is just as good as the Demo if not better against just about everything in the DE list.