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I recall reading that The Outsider(C'Tan) was possibiliy the Hive mind.

If this is not true, is there any hints or references to the Hive minds origin or identity?

No it is not the Hive Mind.

In Xenology it is theorised that the humble Ripper might be the earliest form of Tyranid and the one from which all other Tyrnaids have evolved but I don't recalll anything that hints about the Hive Minds origin or when the Tyranids developed their shared consciousness.

It's one of those 'far off' theories involving the C'tan, similar to the idea that the C'tan may be secretly controlling the Farsight enclave and that Pylons on Cadia are Necron Pylons. Does it have a possibility of being true? Sure, any of these do, but for the moment we're not given enough information to know for sure. I choose to believe all three however.

ITs one of those things that offer a far out explanation of the hive mind since we dont know when it was 'born' (what word to use lol?)
Personally i dont think so and havent seen any hard fluff to back it up


Dan

Azure wrote:It's one of those 'far off' theories involving the C'tan, similar to the idea that the C'tan may be secretly controlling the Farsight enclave and that Pylons on Cadia are Necron Pylons. Does it have a possibility of being true? Sure, any of these do, but for the moment we're not given enough information to know for sure. I choose to believe all three however.

It is logical to assume that Pylons are Necron in origin because they have anti-warp tech and C'tan hate the Warp.

The hivemind is a pool of consciousness formed by each Tyranid creature. The larger ones holding the largest part (Especially Hive Tyrants); this is why they can keep the smaller 'nids under control.

There's one potential problem with the theory with the Hive Mind being C'Tan since Tyranids originated from some far off galaxy. Would the C'Tan have ever been able to communicate with or reach them? I'm not sure of the timeframes involved. Who knows, maybe it's possible. They are star-gods, after all.

It's the last Old One and not a C'tan

Pilau Rice wrote:It's the last Old One and not a C'tan

There are more then just one Old Ones left though. C'tan were known to attack and ravage entire planets just for the chance to eat one.

There aren't any of the Old Ones left as far as I know - apart from the one that created the Tyranids

Is there canon proof of the Old Ones creating the Tyranids?

If so, I WANT IT.

The primary reason I doubt this theory is the age of the Ctan, the timeline of them waking up, and the timeline of Tyranids arriving. The Ctan are millions of years old, and the Tyranids have only, within the last few hundred, maybe thousand years, appeared in the galaxy. The Ctan also started to wake up after the Tyranids arrived. Nothing lines up to point to a Ctan controlling them.

Not to mention the Hive Mind is a warp presence - it's very literally a warp entity. Last I read, the Ctan aren't too fond of the warp.

It's always been the warp presence that put me off the C'tan theory. I think they're from to far away to ever have come into contact with the old ones.

Also the C'tan getting to armies seems lame.

TheLinguist wrote:Is there canon proof of the Old Ones creating the Tyranids?

If so, I WANT IT.

No sorry, just a few theories that fans have made.

Mine is that the Tyranids are a bio weapon created to wipe the galaxy clean after the young races let it fall to poop. They've been let loose to correct the failed projects so that the old ones can start a fresh.

My personal Theory is that a "base" strain of Tyranids developed a primitive Hive Mind, took their hunt for food too far, started integrating other species, and just blew over from there to the extragalactic menace we know now. They're sort of the fluff version of "rocks fall, everyone dies".

Pilau Rice wrote:Mine is that the Tyranids are a bio weapon created to wipe the galaxy clean after the young races let it fall to poop. They've been let loose to correct the failed projects so that the old ones can start a fresh.

It's a fun idea, that Bioware did well in Mass Effect, but the problem with the Tyranids being created for this is they leave nothing behind. When they're done with a galaxy, every single planet is stripped to the bedrock. Nothing organic left. It's kind of hard to start playing with creating new races when there's no planets in the galaxy capable of sustaining life anymore.

Not having played Mass effect, I wouldn't know.

Regrowing life on a lifeless rock should be easy for the old ones, they created the early races from zilch. Nothing like starting on a blank, dead, canvas

There was old fluff that has been overwritten now i think, about this being the second time Tyranids have been through.

The Catachan Devil and the the Ymgarl Genestealers were supposed to have been left behind by the first wave

Yeah, that's right! Squigs were also Tyranid lifeforms as well.

They were also controlled by Chaos in Rogue Trader. How the times change.

Ymgarl Genestealers and Catachan Devils still kind of have that fluff - it's rumoured they were vanguard organisms that were wiped out by a hive fleet the Imperium never knew about.

it is suspected that there was possably a early Tyranid invasion of the Galaxy that was stopped for some reason.

Catachan Devils, Leviathens, Jormongander Wyrms... all are suspected to be Tyranid lifeforms that have been isoloated from the Hive Mind and have devolved to the point where they are no longer Tyranids.

Genestealers have been in the Galaxy for a very long time too. it actually took along time for Xenobiologists to determine that Genestealers were Tyranids. they had been part of Space Hulk xeno morphs and spreading Genestealer cults long before the Hive Fleets proper were encountered.


Genestealers could be the last survivors of the previous Hive Fleet. that, due to their independent nature, were able to survive without the hive mind.

Azure wrote:It's one of those 'far off' theories involving the C'tan, similar to the idea that the C'tan may be secretly controlling the Farsight enclave and that Pylons on Cadia are Necron Pylons. Does it have a possibility of being true? Sure, any of these do, but for the moment we're not given enough information to know for sure. I choose to believe all three however.

The pylons on Cadia are of Necron origin.

The inscriptions, etc on them have been matched to Necron stuff.

-Loki- wrote:It's a fun idea, that Bioware did well in Mass Effect, but the problem with the Tyranids being created for this is they leave nothing behind. When they're done with a galaxy, every single planet is stripped to the bedrock. Nothing organic left. It's kind of hard to start playing with creating new races when there's no planets in the galaxy capable of sustaining life anymore.

Bwuh?

The C'tan aren't interested in "creating" new races. They're just interested in feeding off suns and having worshipers, in that general order with worshipers being a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar distant second.

While the C'Tan aren't "too fond of the Warp", creating a breed of super predator that's attracted to Warp emanations would be just the kind of thing they would do in their war with the creations of the Old Ones.

Kanluwen wrote:Bwuh?

The C'tan aren't interested in "creating" new races. They're just interested in feeding off suns and having worshipers, in that general order with worshipers being a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar distant second.

While the C'Tan aren't "too fond of the Warp", creating a breed of super predator that's attracted to Warp emanations would be just the kind of thing they would do in their war with the creations of the Old Ones.

So you didn't actually read the post I was responding to, huh?

He was talking about the Tyranids being an old one creation to wipe the galaxy clean when the races let it all go to gak, so they (the Old Ones, not the C'tan) could recreate everything.

-Loki- wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Bwuh?

The C'tan aren't interested in "creating" new races. They're just interested in feeding off suns and having worshipers, in that general order with worshipers being a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar distant second.

While the C'Tan aren't "too fond of the Warp", creating a breed of super predator that's attracted to Warp emanations would be just the kind of thing they would do in their war with the creations of the Old Ones.

So you didn't actually read the post I was responding to, huh?

He was talking about the Tyranids being an old one creation to wipe the galaxy clean when the races let it all go to gak, so they (the Old Ones, not the C'tan) could recreate everything.

So you didn't actually read my post and immediately leaped to the defense, huh?

As it stands, the only real explanation--at least from what information we have around in the 40k background--links them to the C'Tan in a vague, roundabout way.

Plus, the Old Ones wouldn't want to 'wipe the galaxy clean' even if the other races let it all go to hell.

Kanluwen wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Bwuh?

The C'tan aren't interested in "creating" new races. They're just interested in feeding off suns and having worshipers, in that general order with worshipers being a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar distant second.

While the C'Tan aren't "too fond of the Warp", creating a breed of super predator that's attracted to Warp emanations would be just the kind of thing they would do in their war with the creations of the Old Ones.

So you didn't actually read the post I was responding to, huh?

He was talking about the Tyranids being an old one creation to wipe the galaxy clean when the races let it all go to gak, so they (the Old Ones, not the C'tan) could recreate everything.

So you didn't actually read my post and immediately leaped to the defense, huh?

As it stands, the only real explanation--at least from what information we have around in the 40k background--links them to the C'Tan in a vague, roundabout way.

Plus, the Old Ones wouldn't want to 'wipe the galaxy clean' even if the other races let it all go to hell.

I did read your post. All you did was ask what I was talking about because C'Tan don't create races. But then go and contradict yourself by saying creating a race of super predator attracted to warp emanations is the kind of thing they'd do. I mean, it's right here in the quote tree, and had nothing to do with what I was replying to.

Grey Templar wrote:it is suspected that there was possably a early Tyranid invasion of the Galaxy that was stopped for some reason.

Catachan Devils, Leviathens, Jormongander Wyrms... all are suspected to be Tyranid lifeforms that have been isoloated from the Hive Mind and have devolved to the point where they are no longer Tyranids.

Genestealers have been in the Galaxy for a very long time too. it actually took along time for Xenobiologists to determine that Genestealers were Tyranids. they had been part of Space Hulk xeno morphs and spreading Genestealer cults long before the Hive Fleets proper were encountered.


Genestealers could be the last survivors of the previous Hive Fleet. that, due to their independent nature, were able to survive without the hive mind.

Genestealers seem more like advance scouts. You wouldn't send entire fleets to eat the galaxy without checking on what they'll find (if something else already ate it, or the defenders are too well organized, the fleet miught starve if there's no food at the end of a such a long journey), genestealers can survive on their own and send information back to the main fleet.

So the hive mind sends a few ships with stealers to nearby galaxies, then picks this one to send whole fleets too cause its got lots of food and the locals aren't terribly well organized.

If they're looking for lightly defended galaxies with their advance scouting, man did they drop the ball attacking the milky way.

Naw, 40k galaxy is pretty lightly defended. Sure there's horrible death dealing crap all over the place, but its *unorganized* death dealing crap. Hell I think they ate a couple hundred IoM worlds at one point without the IoM noticing.

The fact that the galaxy is in a free for all killing fest doesn't help things at all. And as we all know, getting the races to cooperate to get anything done will turn Chaos into Order.

According to Lexicanum, the Outsider is crazier than a crackhouse rat. Not quite intergalactic super-bug plague controlling material. It was supposedly driven insane by the Eldar Laughing God.