Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Exactly as the title suggests...unfortunately the tournament scene has become a bit of a Rocks-Papers-Scissors. Certain builds really pwn other builds, and everybody's got that one army that they just suffer against.

So, long story short...what armies are currently out there that are hard counters to Mech IG, leafblower, Melta/plas vets...that whole shebang?





The one that I've seen around my local meta is actually the FAQ-tastic DA. Something about 2+/3++ universal saves and 10 krak missile shots a turn spread across mobile platforms gives Mech IG huge problems.

Space puppies with 3 long fang squads, some form of TWC and midfield control.

Mechless or light mech tau can also do well.

Broadsides as a good hard counter to most IG lists.

BishopX wrote:Space puppies with 3 long fang squads, some form of TWC and midfield control.

Mechless or light mech tau can also do well.

Broadsides as a good hard counter to most IG lists.

Meh. TWC get pwned by Psyker Battlesquads and usually the Leafblower lists have enough firepower to kill 18 power armor guys in cover in a couple turns.

Hordes.

The couple of multilaser shots your opponents are putting down aren't going to be nearly enough to thin out your hordes before they get there, and the guys inside are kitted with melta and plasma which is likewise less than useful against horde players. Plus, everything is vulnerable to close combat, whether it's because of rear armor AV10 or because it's 10-man non-stubborn squads of guardsmen.

A guard army with hordes of power blobs with some form of melta or priests paired up with hydras or HWSs or a green tide full of klaws, sluggas, and lootas would both have a pretty easy time against most mech lists.

Mech lists provide extra range to their short-ranged guns, but hordes always put out more raw killing power when done right, especially in assault.

+1 to the above. Add in gargoyles and str 4 on the charge gants.

BA Scout bikes.

If BA go 1st they can do a 1st turn multi charge and half the guard army gets an autohit krak grenade in the tailpipe. If 2 bikes chain back towards the BA lines a priest can also move forward 12" to join the squad and the assault giving the bikes FNP for the next guard turn.

If BA go 2nd they can outflank and multiple units can still get a krak grenade in the tailpipe.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:Meh. TWC get pwned by Psyker Battlesquads and usually the Leafblower lists have enough firepower to kill 18 power armor guys in cover in a couple turns.

On this point you are wrong. If you tool out the TWC right by giving them storm shields and arming each differently it takes a lot of firepower to even make them have to test and to do that they have to shoot at them and not the rest of your army, leaving your long fangs and pods well enough alone to wreck what they can. Or a wolf lord on TW does well because they can't pysker him and he's a good distraction. Don't forget wolf scouts own ig real bad and you can also put a wolf guard battle leader on a TW and out flank him. but a fully decked out TWC squad is real good against IG

Kan Wall. Shooty Logan wing. Those are probably the biggest counters right now

Blank Templars with 20 tank hunting krak missiles from tac termies per turn will also do well against mech IG.

although some with disagree with my methodology, I tried to put your question to the test this week. Here is a link to the other thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/343874.page

This depends a bit on what you mean by mech IG. If there are a lot of plasma and melta guns, shooty armies like razorspam wolves have a pretty good shot against them. If there are few plasma guns, I've found a hybrid of shooty wolf suppot combined with drop podding grey hunters (and some suicide melta wolf guard) can cause problems. Really, craploads of assault BA get rush across the field quickly and cause issues, too.

PSBs were mentioned to counter some of these threats, but again, if those are included in mech IG, then standard shooty armies will trump the IG as they lose long ranged firepower.

DE and Eldar are going to have a rough go against most mech IG builds.

I don't think the above mentioned horde option is a good counter. Most IG lists have some means of dealing with hordes, whether PSB, manticore, leman russ, flamer HQs, craploads of hull heavy flamers or some combination thereof. Rushing a horde forward and hoping to glance a moving vehicle with a bucketload of dice, only to get subsequently flamed (and have survivors rapid fired with lasguns) isn't a path to success.

I seem to recall a rather humorous list Stelek came up with using ravenwing. You can get a lot of fearless, scouting bikers with melta, plasma and krak grenades to open mech IG vehicles up, and flamers/TL bolters/assault to kill what comes out. Ah, here it is: http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2010/06/rare-builds-scary-dark-angels/

In fact, with the new DA rules, you can have TH/SS termies drop in using the deathwing assault rules on the first turn. The teleport homers all those Ravenwing bikes have look great after they're turbo-boosted in their scout move and they're 12" away on first turn!

Four 30 wound power claws get the job done for me all the time against mech guard combined with the kan wall.

Grimaldi wrote: Most IG lists have some means of dealing with hordes, whether PSB, manticore, leman russ, flamer HQs, craploads of hull heavy flamers or some combination thereof.

Actually, the only serious threat on that entire list is manticores. Proper spacing and things like fearless and stubborn make it all moot. A successful 3-shot manticore blast is always just going to be tough, though.

Of course, any good horde commander is going to know about this threat and should already have the ability to counter it in any list they bring, whether it be long-range firepower like loota spam or mobility options like stormies, al'rahem, lictors, commandos, etc.

I think you underestimate the danger flamers possess. Spacing works fine until you assault a vehicle, and then you're forced to clump together. 4 flamers from a platoon command squad will roast a lot of orks/guants. Granted, they got a charge off, and could potentially assault multiple vehicles to spread out a bit, but with the assault rules as they are, there's going to be some clumpage, and as long as flamers can reach one bunch of troops, they can cause multiple wounds across the whole unit.

Tank shocking, too, can force hordes together to maximize flamer effectiveness.

Not enough to completely counter a horde, but it's all part of the comprehensive package.

Grimaldi wrote:I think you underestimate the danger flamers possess.

Oh, believe me, I've fought against flamers before. The problem with flamers is that people easily look at their maximum potential damage and forget that that never actually happens. Your opponent always has some say in how many hits you score with template weapons of any type, and it's always in your opponent's best interest to ensure that you hit as few as possible, not as many.

As an IG player, i don't mind when people space out to the max. While yes it does reduce the number of hits you'll get with blast weapons, it forces their army to be very spread out which allows you to take it piecemeal. Since hordes will be on foot, I will be able to shift my army to one side and focus on the units on that side while the rest of the horde is out of position. You can also force the horde to bunch up by sacrificing a few vehicles to block their way so they have to assault them. Between vehicle explosions and flamer retaliation you can make the horde army pay big time for each vehicle they kill in assault. Trying to outshoot guard with loota spam is a non-optimal solution as they cannot hurt russes which a guard player could use to screen his softer vehicles. They also tend to be unreliable and will be a primary target for long range IG shooting. They definitely are useful, but are not going to break the IG player's back on their own. My comments are mostly referring to orks as that is the only horde army I've played regularly.

schadenfreude wrote:Blank Templars with 20 tank hunting krak missiles from tac termies per turn will also do well against mech IG.

That'd run in at at least 1320 points, leaving you with a low troop count, unless it's 2500 pts.

EDIT: Miscalculated the cost of the mandatory Emperor's Champion.