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Heres the situation:
You are playing Tau, against orks.
In you opponents last turn, he moved his 30 man boyz squad about 7" from your 12 man unit of firewarriors.
Your firewarriors don't have a devilfish, and the rest of your force is tied up with the rest of his.
It is now your turn.
Which option would you choose?

Option #1: You move your firewarriors back 5", and rapid fire into the ork boyz (assume the boyz don't have 'ard armor). You will then get assaulted next turn.

Option #2: You move your firewarriors forward 6", and assault the boyz.

So it's assumed that either way your firewarriors are going to be massacred in close combat by the wall of green. In option #1, you are going to possibly kill, what, 10 boyz? (I don't know the actual math). In option #2, you will deny the extra attack to the orks, and deny furious charge. That way you could possibly tarpit the orks, and hold them up from mauling the rest of your army.

So dakka, what do you think? Option #1, or Option #2? Why?

This is a ridiculous question, and one I'm seeing more and more of on this forum.

All you have told us is one tiny thing about the battle. We don't know

What the rest of the Ork Army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

What the rest of the Tau army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

If there are 20 nobs a few inches behind the orks, but too far to assault the fire warriors, tarpitting might be good, because that way the nobs have to go all the way aroudn or waste a turn assaulting the already doomed fire warriors. If the rest of your army is half the board away, why not rapid fire and write off the fire warriors?

We CAN NOT make an informed decision based on TWO units in ONE position in a game like 40K.

I can make a decision. Move back. At least you will take them down with you. Either way they will take you in assault. 60 attacks or 90 attackes on 10 fire warriors on the rush will make no real difference. You will be killed either way. best to drop 10 or so and deny them any glory. But again like above poster says, it all depends what's around you. I like the shooting thing more so than the assaulting for tau.

You move back, shoot and hope the orks roll bad on their turn for reaching you as you should be in terrain. You don't want to lock yourself in assault as tau, you want to be shooting.

Now if the ork boys squad was very tiny, perhaps charging it after shooting would work, but odds are the green guys are gonna win.

Darkjediben wrote:This is a ridiculous question, and one I'm seeing more and more of on this forum.

All you have told us is one tiny thing about the battle. We don't know

What the rest of the Ork Army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

What the rest of the Tau army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

If there are 20 nobs a few inches behind the orks, but too far to assault the fire warriors, tarpitting might be good, because that way the nobs have to go all the way aroudn or waste a turn assaulting the already doomed fire warriors. If the rest of your army is half the board away, why not rapid fire and write off the fire warriors?

We CAN NOT make an informed decision based on TWO units in ONE position in a game like 40K.

Well you're not a very bright person it seems, since you can't read what the OP wrote which goes as follows:

You are playing Tau, against orks.
In you opponents last turn, he moved his 30 man boyz squad about 7" from your 12 man unit of firewarriors.
Your firewarriors don't have a devilfish, and the rest of your force is tied up with the rest of his.
It is now your turn.

Notice the bold bit which suggest that you are focusing on those two units and neither army will gain some miracle advantage from another unit being present and ready to lend a hand at that current time.

Anyway I would probably move the firewarriors back and go for rapid-fire. You may get lucky and ease the assault but you'll still get beaten up anyway.

Why move backward at all before you rapid fire? You're not going to do enough damage to prevent them from getting models in assault. Based on the information provided, just leave them the heck where they are and rapid fire. Why waste the effort moving the models?

Now, if there were terrain nearby that the Fire Warriors could move into before rapid firing, that would be a great idea. Then the orks might fail the DT test to get into assault.

Also, moving might be a good idea if it would present the Ork player with a decision to pursue the Firewarrior squad or move the Orks in a direction that would take them closer to something they were more needed to engage. Present them with the decision to either wipe out a relatively unimportant squad of Firewarriors or to keep moving in another, more important direction.

Also, assaulting them might be a good idea even if the squad would get wiped out. If the Orks pile in move would force them into terrain, it's possible that the Orks' subsequent movement phase could be hampered.

Based on the scenario provided, I'd stand the 'Warriors where they were and shoot, but there really are way too many more variables that would need to be taken into consideration on the actual gaming table.

Option 2 is really really bad. You charge them, they react, there is a chance for them to wipe out that entire fire warrior squad. Now you are down a squad and the ork mob is potentially charging a 2nd unit of Tau.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you move the full 6 inches back, thus being 13 inches away from the boyz and out of their charge range (sans waghh). That really seems like a no brainer.

I agree with the other posters, your scenario is really silly.

move forward, spread out, attempting to block a possible multicharge by the boyz. shoot, get assaulted, die, allowing the rest of your army to either move away or get ready to respond.

Go back in time and get those poor fire warriors a devilfish

Taoofss wrote:Option 2 is really really bad. You charge them, they react, there is a chance for them to wipe out that entire fire warrior squad. Now you are down a squad and the ork mob is potentially charging a 2nd unit of Tau.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you move the full 6 inches back, thus being 13 inches away from the boyz and out of their charge range (sans waghh). That really seems like a no brainer.

I agree with the other posters, your scenario is really silly.

Because the boyz are 7" away. So if you moved 6, then you are at 13" which is out of rapid fire range. And 24 shots>12 shots.


Yeah I know, viewing this in a bubble is kinda silly, I was just pondering this. No need to get testy guys.

Move forward (or rather away from where you don't want the orks to go) and shoot. The Orks are going to catch you in assault no matter what you do, this leaves them slightly further away from other units.

Because the boyz are 7" away. So if you moved 6, then you are at 13" which is out of rapid fire range. And 24 shots>12 shots.

Considering they are rapid fire weapons, it would be 24 shots>0 shots, since you can't move and fire at >12" and the Orks will have simply closed in to rapid fire range again on their next turn.

The only time I can see moving back being any good is if it's the last turn of a KP game and you went first. You move back, he can't charge you on his turn, game ends and KP salvaged. Other than that, rapid fire them to buggery and hope for the best.

Tau weapons are 30 inches.

Taoofss wrote:Tau weapons are 30 inches.

I think you need to check your rule book.

Pg 28: "Models armed with a rapid fire weapon [which pulse rifles are] can move and fire two shots at targets up to 12" away...If the unit has not moved, models armed with rapid fire weapons may instead fire one shot at targets over 12" away, up to the weapons' maximum range."

So, even though the Pulse rifle has a range of 30", this is only if it stands still. If they move, then it only has a range of 12" (albeit 2 shots).

PraetorDave wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Tau weapons are 30 inches.

I think you need to check your rule book.

Pg 28: "Models armed with a rapid fire weapon [which pulse rifles are] can move and fire two shots at targets up to 12" away...If the unit has not moved, models armed with rapid fire weapons may instead fire one shot at targets over 12" away, up to the weapons' maximum range."

So, even though the Pulse rifle has a range of 30", this is only if it stands still. If they move, then it only has a range of 12" (albeit 2 shots).

You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

Taoofss wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Tau weapons are 30 inches.

I think you need to check your rule book.

Pg 28: "Models armed with a rapid fire weapon [which pulse rifles are] can move and fire two shots at targets up to 12" away...If the unit has not moved, models armed with rapid fire weapons may instead fire one shot at targets over 12" away, up to the weapons' maximum range."

So, even though the Pulse rifle has a range of 30", this is only if it stands still. If they move, then it only has a range of 12" (albeit 2 shots).

You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

How do you figure? You can't shoot the turn you moved over 12" away. On his turn the Ork player moves up to follow you and now you're right back where you started. At best one round of double tapping followed by getting charged. What you do manage to change is letting the Orks shoot you one time more than they otherwise would have.

Raxmei wrote:

Taoofss wrote:

PraetorDave wrote:

Taoofss wrote:Tau weapons are 30 inches.

I think you need to check your rule book.

Pg 28: "Models armed with a rapid fire weapon [which pulse rifles are] can move and fire two shots at targets up to 12" away...If the unit has not moved, models armed with rapid fire weapons may instead fire one shot at targets over 12" away, up to the weapons' maximum range."

So, even though the Pulse rifle has a range of 30", this is only if it stands still. If they move, then it only has a range of 12" (albeit 2 shots).

You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

How do you figure? You can't shoot the turn you moved over 12" away. On his turn the Ork player moves up to follow you and now you're right back where you started. At best one round of double tapping followed by getting charged. What you do manage to change is letting the Orks shoot you one time more than they otherwise would have.

I'm not too familiar with how tau weapons work with rapid fire rules. I guess they are stuck on 12 inches like bolters instead of 15 inches. For whatever reason, I always thought rapid fire is affected by the range of the weapon. Must be an old edition rule or maybe a tau player played it wrong against me and it just stuck.

Darkjediben wrote:This is a ridiculous question, and one I'm seeing more and more of on this forum.

All you have told us is one tiny thing about the battle. We don't know

What the rest of the Ork Army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

What the rest of the Tau army looks like
How much of it is left
Where that remainder is

If there are 20 nobs a few inches behind the orks, but too far to assault the fire warriors, tarpitting might be good, because that way the nobs have to go all the way aroudn or waste a turn assaulting the already doomed fire warriors. If the rest of your army is half the board away, why not rapid fire and write off the fire warriors?

We CAN NOT make an informed decision based on TWO units in ONE position in a game like 40K.

And in all honesty seeing responses like this. This is a VERY basic question. Unit A is here, and unit B is there, what should I do. Being a dick about it is not how to help people out. Next time dont answer

OT - Id say stay and shoot.

rryannn wrote:move forward, spread out, attempting to block a possible multicharge by the boyz. shoot, get assaulted, die, allowing the rest of your army to either move away or get ready to respond.

This. Is how you do it as Tau. You do NEVER want to be charging unless you've got a huge on-sided advantage.

What you do want to do though, is to slow down your enemy and give time to the rest of your army to handle the threat. If you are going to be charged anyway, I see no reason why you shouldn't move forward as far as you can and try to block the movement of the orks and then rapid fire them.

This is usually how I use kroot.

Taoofss wrote:I'm not too familiar with how tau weapons work with rapid fire rules. I guess they are stuck on 12 inches like bolters instead of 15 inches. For whatever reason, I always thought rapid fire is affected by the range of the weapon. Must be an old edition rule or maybe a tau player played it wrong against me and it just stuck.

Taoofss wrote:You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

I think you are not familiar with the general rule, not how Tau weapons work. You are not granted a REGULAR shot when you MOVE you model wielding a rapid fire weapon. You can ONLY rapid fire if you moved

Move 6" away from the main part of your army. Run d6" away in the shooting phase. make them choose what to go for.

Or move up and kill your 8 Orks and prepare to take it like a Bluey next turn.

striderx wrote:

Taoofss wrote:I'm not too familiar with how tau weapons work with rapid fire rules. I guess they are stuck on 12 inches like bolters instead of 15 inches. For whatever reason, I always thought rapid fire is affected by the range of the weapon. Must be an old edition rule or maybe a tau player played it wrong against me and it just stuck.

Taoofss wrote:You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

I think you are not familiar with the general rule, not how Tau weapons work. You are not granted a REGULAR shot when you MOVE you model wielding a rapid fire weapon. You can ONLY rapid fire if you moved

"If a model using a rapid fire weapon remains stationary it can fire two shots up to 12" but only one shot up to the weapon’s maximum range. If the model moves then it can only fire one shot up to a range of 12'"

My mistake was thinking that because tau weapons had 30 inch range, their rapid fire range would be 15 inches. I understand rapid fire rules in general and just had a bit of mix up with this specific scenario. The above quote was taken from the 5th E rule book. I think you are the one who is not familiar with the general rule. I could be wrong however and may have missed something else. If you could point me to the page number or quote the rule book for me backing up the above quoted statement.

I would charge the Orks. Less of a hassle that way. Sure, I would get my balls handed to me in a paper bag that is on fire, but those Orks would be at S3, 3 attacks, and I3.

I would say shoot, an assault represent an unnecessary risk on your part (IE, losing in the assault, falling back, and leaving the orks to go capture an objective or move on to the next target), and you *know* what will happen if you shoot.

If possible, maneuver into a position that lets you control where the orks go.

Taoofss wrote:"If a model using a rapid fire weapon remains stationary it can fire two shots up to 12" but only one shot up to the weapon’s maximum range. If the model moves then it can only fire TWO shot up to a range of 12'"

Fixed that quote for you. You might want to read a little more carefully next time.

I'll need to reference the rest of the battle, but I promise I'll do it vaguely.

Option B has no advantages, as you'll give them a chance to sweep you this turn (let's face it, it's Tau).

Option A has a higher chance to kill anything, and you have to accept you'll get charged next turn if you want to hurt anything.

So... We look at where everything else is and balance what we do. Where is your nearest unit? Where is the nearest unit that is likely to be free of combat next turn? What is that boy mob the biggest threat to?

Move your firewarriors 6'' in whatever direction helps you best (while keeping the whole unit within 12'') and fire away. If all my goodies are to my left, then all my guys hoof it around the right side of the mob and fire away. Consider multi charge threats as well.

Taoofss wrote:My mistake was thinking that because tau weapons had 30 inch range, their rapid fire range would be 15 inches. I understand rapid fire rules in general and just had a bit of mix up with this specific scenario. The above quote was taken from the 5th E rule book. I think you are the one who is not familiar with the general rule. I could be wrong however and may have missed something else. If you could point me to the page number or quote the rule book for me backing up the above quoted statement.

It's either a you get to choose a REGULAR shot/Rapid fire if you didnt move, or you can ONLY Rapid Fire (no REGULAR shot) if you moved.

Taoofss wrote:You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

Like PraetorDave said, read carefully yourself instead of trying hard to show to everyone that you don't know the rules. After that, then consider giving advice

I would charge in since I have Farsight giving my army preferred enemy vs Orks... oh wait wrong Tau Codex. But if I was playing I would charge them in mainly for the Ork player's look of "WTF did I just get charged by Tau?!"

striderx wrote:

Taoofss wrote:My mistake was thinking that because tau weapons had 30 inch range, their rapid fire range would be 15 inches. I understand rapid fire rules in general and just had a bit of mix up with this specific scenario. The above quote was taken from the 5th E rule book. I think you are the one who is not familiar with the general rule. I could be wrong however and may have missed something else. If you could point me to the page number or quote the rule book for me backing up the above quoted statement.

It's either a you get to choose a REGULAR shot/Rapid fire if you didnt move, or you can ONLY Rapid Fire (no REGULAR shot) if you moved.

Taoofss wrote:You're right, but if you move the full 6 back, you get one turn of regular shots and then another turn of double tapping.

Like PraetorDave said, read carefully yourself instead of trying hard to show to everyone that you don't know the rules. After that, then consider giving advice

Like I said in the previous post, I could be wrong. The reason I quoted the rule book incorrect was because I was at work and only had access to scribe and not the actual book. I have a physical copy of the rulebook, I just don't carry it with me at all times. Next time, I would appreciate it if you could just quote the BRB for me. That would have saved us both alot of time. Thanks.

I think my biggest problem with this whole scenario is the fact there are more than 6 fire warriors, and those warriors are actually on foot not in a devil fish. Or there is even a shred of caring if they die. Ork mobs on foot aren't exactly subtle about where they are going, if your FW are there, you messed up well before this point, or you have no problem with losing them. Fire warriors are units you take because you have to, they aren't even good at scoring if they don't have a ride. If they are on foot they are just bait.

It is a pretty dumb scenario, you either screwed up, or you have a reason for it. An ork mob isn't going to outplay you, all it can do is move 6" fire or run each turn. Also your options don't include all possible choices. Like moving forward and rapid fire, that way the orks don't get to have extra movement towards the back line. Or move back 6, then run (a good chance that his fleet movement will roll too low, assuming he still has the whaaargh, and no Ghaz, or he would even use the fleet turn to assault a crap unit of FWs).

My choice? It depends on what the rest of the board is. If it is for the greater good that the FW move to sacrifice themselves (in whatever fashion), so be it. If it is needed that they live another day, I wouldn't have them in that position.