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melta bombs are S8+2D6 according to my local club friend

he claims they get 2D6 against a lith, i am not so sure...but they arent a melta weapons technically

how would this work

2d6 or 1d6

It's a bit of a funny one. The Monolith rules say you only ever get S + D6 armour penetration - but technically the meltabomb doesnt have a S, its AP is just 2D6 + 8.

I think its intended that it should be just 8 + D6, but you can definately have it argued from a RAW prespective that meltabombs get 8 + 2D6.

Personally, I play as 8 + D6.

1d6, the monolith rules state you never get an extra D6 for penetration.

the only exception is ord weapons, but thats 2d6 pick the highest

Melta Bombs not being Melta... Hmmm sounds like clutching at straws a tad..

Technically they are melta weapons with a range of 0 inches , if you want to look at it that way. As they're always going to be within 1/2 range (0) they are always getting 2d6, except vs Liths..

Anyone claiming Melta Bombs aren't melta (whether or not they can support it with an 'it doesn't say melta in the weapon statline' ) is definitely not playing fair. Its in the name. Its Melta. Grenades just don't get the normal weapon statline due to the fact that most of it would be wasted space.

Kindof like when Inquisition players (pre the faq) claimed that inferno pistols weren't flamers or meltas (they were special) and so they worked on the Avatar..


Tankbusta bombs (almost identical, but with no melta in the name) are in a similar boat. I would rule more RAI of d6+6, but thats at least in part because the RAW-Lawyers ignoring RAI for advantage bug the crud out of me!

Its True, Melta bomba are not melta weapons by RAW they do not say they are melta so they are not.

All other melta weapons are AP1, except for melta bombs.

Ascalam wrote:Melta Bombs not being Melta... Hmmm sounds like clutching at straws a tad..

because the RAW-Lawyers ignoring RAI for advantage bug the crud out of me!

Amen Brother, tell your friend to quit being a little girl and play the game, there should be no reason he is splitting hairs agains Necrons anyway, lol, no offense. If he doesnt like it, just particle whip him.

The Thunder Child wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Melta Bombs not being Melta... Hmmm sounds like clutching at straws a tad..

because the RAW-Lawyers ignoring RAI for advantage bug the crud out of me!

Amen Brother, tell your friend to quit being a little girl and play the game, there should be no reason he is splitting hairs agains Necrons anyway, lol, no offense. If he doesnt like it, just particle whip him.

Yea! Following rules is for little girls. . .

err.

Nice.

Ascalam wrote:Melta Bombs not being Melta... Hmmm sounds like clutching at straws a tad..

Technically they are melta weapons with a range of 0 inches

No, they're not. Don't let the name confuse you. The only weapons which are "melta" are the ones with the "melta" special rule.

I generally go toward yes with meltabombs getting the +D6. After all, it's not an "extra" D6 that they're getting. They do 2D6, not 1D6, and an extra 1D6 at half range.

Plus, otherwise the only way to kill monoliths is with DCCW, lascannons and manticores. Monoliths should be tough, but shouldn't be indestructable against almost all weapons.

Really, the monolith is broken in both the good and bad way.

Regardless of whos rules or to how literal or word bending you are being, the lith rules still says NEVER extra D6. That means any d6 used to add to theoriginal STR+d6 are void. end of story.

Yup- Single D6 + str- Its a specific rule under the codex entry (and therefore trumps generic)

Melta is not melta? Spooky.. If you want to argue that melta bombs aren't melta go ahead, but you're being a !@#$. They aren't AP1, true, but not ALL melta effects are, so you're wrong there..

One example is the ork wierdboy power ZZApp- its S 10, AP 2 Melta , not AP 1 (and i would love it to be AP 1)

I'm pretty sure there's a couple of others out there too, just not in the Marine dex..

'Monoliths should be tough, but shouldn't be indestructable against almost all weapons. '

Um, actually that IS pretty much the point of Monoliths.. They haven't the mobility OR the firepower to be effective battletanks. They move a max of 6'' a round, regardless, and all their weapons are woefully short-legged. They're nasty close in, but pretty easy to avoid, unlike, for example, fast vindicators or land raiders with twinlinked everything and sprinkles on top..

If they weren't so damn tough they'd be burning hulks, 6'' from their deployment zone.



Come to that Land Raiders are damn near indestructable to some armies.

'just use melta weapons on them and they go boom real easy...'

Can't tell you how often i've heard this, and it holds pretty true IF you are an army that actually HAS melta weapons (similar argument with plasma vs 2+ armour). Not all armies do. Nids have no melta, orks have one (random roll) psychic power, Necrons have no melta..

Ascalam wrote: If you want to argue that melta bombs aren't melta go ahead, but you're being a !@#$.

...?

A weapon is melta if it has the melta special rule just like how a unit has stealth if it has the stealth special rule.

What's so crazy about this?

The Thunder Child wrote:NEVER extra D6.

Indeed, but look at all three of those words.

One of them is "extra".

Any EXTRA D6's are ignored.

What about when you have a weapon which doesn't have an extra D6?

2D6 is NOT 1D6 with an extra 1D6 unless there is a rule that says it's an extra one (such as melta, or an eviscerator).

Ok, poor wording on the word extra, i'll admit.

the actual and very clear cut term is 'one d6 and unmodified strength, no matter what' .. i think that pretty much covers it.

The Thunder Child wrote:That means any d6 used to add to theoriginal STR+d6 are void. end of story.

By that i ment that any d6 added in anyway to the end result of the customary pen check are viod. I will agree that melta bombs are not "melta" though, its true there is no "melta" type in is discription. But the lith still trumps that arguement.

The last line of Living Metal says a weapon will only use its unmodified strength and a single D6.

It's not about whether a meltabomb is 2d6 or 1d6+16, or whether it's Melta or not.

Simply put, when it comes time to roll for penetration, you use a single d6, according to the codex.

Nicely put, and correct also. I like the fact the line also says 'no matter what!', presumably to forestal this kind of argument. (of course then they let the powerfist break it, and then everyone else wants another exception..)

The Living Metal rule could need an upgrade... writer never considered what to say when an attack doesn't have a Strength value. Grenades just have straight armor penetration, same as some other rare things.

That's what you get when they don't release a necron codex every edition like they do space marine ones.

The codex is 10 years old after all..

If i remember right frag are 4 + d6 (ie S 4), Krak are 6+d6 (str 6) In practice very few grenades can hurt a lith (haywire for instance ,or of course the old classic- Vortex )

There are a couple of odd and annoyingly potent weapons though that bypass living metal, like haywire grenades (no str, they just auto glance or auto pen if they roll right) or wraithcannon- same deal...

You could argue the same thing with chaos screamers as they are not MC's and their weapon is counts as "melta bombs" cause they roll str plus 2d6 vs vehicles.

Doesn't matter if they're melta weapons or not. All the ever get is unaugmented strength plus 1d6 for armor penetration against Monoliths. Period. So there are two camps.
1. they're ST 8 and normally get 2d6 penetration. So that would be ST 8 plus 1d6 vs Monolith.
2. The other camp is that meltabombs don't have a strangth and just get 8+2d6 penetration. Fine, so they get 0 plus 1d6 vs the Monolith.

Either way, they do not get 8 + 2d6..............

SweetLou wrote:melta bombs are S8+2D6 according to my local club friend
he claims they get 2D6 against a lith, i am not so sure...but they arent a melta weapons technically
how would this work
2d6 or 1d6

don_mondo wrote:Doesn't matter if they're melta weapons or not. All the ever get is unaugmented strength plus 1d6 for armor penetration against Monoliths. Period. So there are two camps.
1. they're ST 8 and normally get 2d6 penetration. So that would be ST 8 plus 1d6 vs Monolith.
2. The other camp is that meltabombs don't have a strength and just get 8+2d6 penetration. Fine, so they get 0 plus 1d6 vs the Monolith.
Either way, they do not get 8 + 2d6..............

+1 Exactly, there are plenty of people that interpret the rules differently and claim that their interpretation is RAW and that yours is RAI.
What I am confused about is why your local club friend is trying to twist this rule to get an advantage on a 3rd edition codex?

Check the BRB. Look up Monstrous creatrues and how they do the S+ whatever d6. Now look up chain fist, their S+ whatever D6. Now look up the imperial guard tank buster leman russ *name escapes me atm* and it's s+whatever d6 gun. NOW look at the melta bomb and it's s+ whatever d6.

Notice they are all the same way of S+2D6?

Ascalam wrote:*snip*

Can't tell you how often i've heard this, and it holds pretty true IF you are an army that actually HAS melta weapons (similar argument with plasma vs 2+ armour). Not all armies do. Nids have no melta, orks have one (random roll) psychic power, Necrons have no melta..

Necrons have warscythes though which are "kinda" like melta bombs at least. But really, necrons don't need melta considering EVERYTHING glances anything anyway.

Kurgash wrote:Check the BRB. Look up Monstrous creatrues and how they do the S+ whatever d6. Now look up chain fist, their S+ whatever D6. Now look up the imperial guard tank buster leman russ *name escapes me atm* and it's s+whatever d6 gun. NOW look at the melta bomb and it's s+ whatever d6.

Notice they are all the same way of S+2D6?

Actually, MCs say they have an additional d6 (then state in parentheses that it would total 2d6), and I thought the other two weapons did that as well.

Everyone is right that Melta Bombs does not say "additional d6" but as I and don_mondo pointed out, Living Metal specifically says it only allows S+1d6 penetration

'Necrons have warscythes though which are "kinda" like melta bombs at least. But really, necrons don't need melta considering EVERYTHING glances anything anyway. '

Heh, true, as far as it goes Warsycthes are S +2d6, but that's more tankbusta bomb- 6+2d6 at best on a lord.

Autoglancing everything nearly makes up for the fact that even orks can throw as big and nasty a template as the monolith for cheaper, and have better fire support

My orks have to fist-bump armour 14 to death though, and it takes AAAGEs. Not that it mind... i like the image of a terrified crew of marines in a dented tin can huddling while ork voices promise violence and the hulll rungs to the clang! clang! clang! of the boss's powerklaw...

Why is this so hard to understand?

The rules say a single d6. Why would you then wonder why you can't use 2d6? There are some valid rules disagreements; this is not one of them.

Ascalam wrote:
Heh, true, as far as it goes Warsycthes are S +2d6, but that's more tankbusta bomb- 6+2d6 at best on a lord.

How did you get the Lord to Str. 6? I cannot find any wargear that bumps him but would Love to run a Str. 6 Lord.

ok, 5 then... no caffiene yet this morning..

Sorry to have raised your hopes. My blurry eyes and malfunctioning brain aren't up to speed yet

How about it's not a weapon? It doesn't have a weapon stat line so it doesn't fall under 'a weapon will never' part of that rule. It's an attack using a piece of war gear...Just putting it out there.

Melta bombs are listed in the weapons section of wargear in the Space Marine Codex. (Page 98)

Not weapons in all codex books though...

But worse is the fact they don't have a Strength. They really dont. And the Living Metal only mentions attacks with a Strength value.