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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't need CIA copaganda in my democratic socialist utopia.

The only acceptable Section 31 content would be them put on trial that proved they're just a bunch of self-righteous loons and psychopaths using "national security" as an excuse to rob and murder people and their services had never ever been required for the survival of the Federation, and then they all get locked away forever and the democratic socialist utopia continues to function unfazed.

QFT.
But I doubt the current Trek writing staff likes that. When watching Picard I had the feeling they hated everything about the character and tried to utterly destroy him and his achievements. Instead we got dystopian Trek were Hitler from mirror universe becomes a Section 31 hero and buddy of Spocks sister.

That latest episode of SNW was a lovely bit of fun.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't need CIA copaganda in my democratic socialist utopia.

The only acceptable Section 31 content would be them put on trial that proved they're just a bunch of self-righteous loons and psychopaths using "national security" as an excuse to rob and murder people and their services had never ever been required for the survival of the Federation, and then they all get locked away forever and the democratic socialist utopia continues to function unfazed.

Agree, that should always be the end game with Section 31.
Anyways, I've said this before but Section 31 jumped a million sharks in Disco when they had their own secret fleet and navy that appears to be bigger than Starfleet complete with identifiable combadges.

Starfleet Academy is a good idea. Something they haven't fully explored but is fully rooted in ST lore. Could be a YA themed Star Trek which is fine if done right. Was that a Jem'Hadar cadet I saw? Always wiondered what happened to them.

Even the Culture (who are what the Federation aspire to be) have Special Circumstances - https://theculture.fandom.com/wiki/Special_Circumstances_(Wikipedia_version)

The idea of S31 is not a bad one but as usual it gets far too much screen time and explanation.

Although its more of a problem imo having a central bad fan faction character that is always right, is the best at everything and worshiped by the rest of the characters.

The problem with Section 31 is that it has no place in Roddenberry's Star Trek...

Which is essentially the Original Series, The Motion Picture and the early years of The Next Generation.

Ronald Moore discussed in an interview the issues of trying to explain Roddenberry's Trek ideals to alien cultures.

It definitely has a place, it just should never have been so prevalent.

Before Discovery's big blow up there were what six total episodes? In Enterprise it's the earliest days of human space travel, they haven't even fully built a utopia on Earth yet. Section 31 should exist in this era.
By DS9, it shouldn't exist and that's the idea presented. It doesn't really exist and a select few know about it until the Dominion War when it starts taking more overt action due to desperation in Starfleet.
But by the end of the Dominion War, it's suffered heavy losses (like all of Starfleet) and it's CO is dead. The organisation as a unregulated spy force is gone.
For Lower Decks, it seems to have evolved into a legitimate force for good doing secret missions that counter threats to all of reality rather than just the Federation.

Discovery (shocking nobody) was the real problem. Section 31 became an organisation that operated in open view for "reasons" and had a massive amount of direct resources and staff rather than utilising sources and cultivated agents.

It's the sweet tooth issue.

Mangers see that X story point is popular and start to do it more. They see it remain popular so they then jump to a massive focus on it.

It's like sugar; one chocolate is nice; two is great; a backpack full in one go is way too much and spoils it and now you're sick.


Plus that was probably a really "cheap" backpack full so it was a lower grade compared to when it was just one or two chocolates.