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Is it alright to run these? I was playing around with a list and got it to where I was really happy with it but I realized my 3 Wych Squads didn't have haywire grenades. I have 2 Ravagers and 4 raiders for a total of 10 lances and 1 blast pistol in a 1500 pt list, but I feel like I may need to make some cuts to get grenades in...

I have 3 versions of the list, and one of them adds another ravager for 13 lances, and the others just play with adding Baron Sathonyx or 5 Hellions which aren't anti-tank units.

Is 10 lances enough or are the haywires really an uncuttable piece of wargear?

They are totally cuttable
It would be nice, if at least 1 of your squads had them, just in case you come up against a rhino parking lot and can pull off a multicharge. Its also good for those blessed hull LR.
In 1500 points I dont think its too necessary.
At 2000 I would say you NEED 1 squad with them in a face all comers list. But its just a feeling. I use to field my army without them and it did ok.

Oh, I'd probably put them in. Speaking as someone who runs a lot of walkers there's nothing I like more than a squad of DE without Haywire Grenades.

If you don't think this will be an issue based on your local meta, maybe you don't need them. In an "all-comers" list it would probably not be a terrible idea to bring them.

My Wyches never leave Commorragh without HG, even if its just to check the mail.

Phanatik
The Lost Souls

I've learned the hard way haywire grenades aren't that effective against walkers your best bet is lance fire for those bungholes. But yes against regular vehicle it's nice to have them if you have the spare points. They never did much for me though.

Haywire grenades....wyches should not be without them.

They're not for use against walkers - they're for use against vehicles, and unless you've got something special, your best defense against blessed hull landraiders (which ignore lances) and monoliths (which ignore lances), not to mention being great against other vehicles as well.

I'd like to qualify my statement about walkers: It's not the reason to bring them, but it sucks (for you) if you get locked in with a Dreadnought and can't hope to hurt it.

I'd like to qualify my statement about walkers: It's not the reason to bring them, but it sucks (for you) if you get locked in with a Dreadnought and can't hope to hurt it.

This ^

My Raiders and Ravagers have been stuck circling dreadnought / Wyche combats that last the entire game due to the 4++ save on the Wyches.

If you have points, take the HGs. If you already have enought anti-tank, shoot those dreads before your wyches want to assault right next to them

You can probably get by without them, but they're really too good a deal to pass up. The concern of getting tied up with a dread is pretty limited, really...you're DE, so you control movement and assaults, so you can usually avoid enemy walkers.

Dash is correct, though, that the real use is augmenting your anti-tank ability. Just having a squad of wyches with grenades threatens all enemy vehicles within about a 20" radius...they either have to move to stay safe, reducing fire at your army, or sit still and risk getting annihilated.

The only real danger I find is that when you have the haywires, you look for vehicles for your wyches to hit. They do the job well, but once they hop out, they're very vulnerable, and they don't get a pain point for killing a tank. I find my wyches often blow something up, but then get shot to pieces. You can quickly lose scoring units this way and suddenly find yourself scrambling to keep you last remaining troops alive for the next 5 rounds!

If you are running a WWP list spending 120 in 10 wyches is a bargain! True it is only 20 more for the grenades but they are sho cheap.

BTW: You can use the plasma (defensive) grenades at str 4, so you can at least scratch tanks. Unles you are facing a lott of blessed huls and/or monoliths you should not use your grenades to kill transports because you will get shot to death afterwads.

Niiai wrote:Unles you are facing a lott of blessed huls and/or monoliths you should not use your grenades to kill transports because you will get shot to death afterwads.

If you're smart about it, you'll surround the vehicle's disembark points to prevent the troops inside from exiting the vehicle. It won't protect you from getting shot up by other stuff, but it removes the threat from the stuff inside.

From playing against DE, wyches with haywires are dangerous. Recently a unit of these cost me a game.

With the prevalence of armor nowadays, I will not field a unit unless they have some anti armor capability.

Corollax wrote:

Niiai wrote:Unles you are facing a lott of blessed huls and/or monoliths you should not use your grenades to kill transports because you will get shot to death afterwads.

If you're smart about it, you'll surround the vehicle's disembark points to prevent the troops inside from exiting the vehicle. It won't protect you from getting shot up by other stuff, but it removes the threat from the stuff inside.

You'll have to surround the vehicle - read the emergency disembark rules.

14 month old thread necro...

Alerian wrote:14 month old thread necro...

yes, I just clicked on it to write just about the exact same thing it turns out I wrote over a year ago. Dam I need a different life.