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Hey guys, I have been out of the country for a good four months now and have been a bit out of the loop when it comes to the developing armies and how to appropriately work with and / or against them. As the title states, I am an IG player and the primary thing that worries me is fighting Dark Eldar. I have been reading a good number of posts here on Dakka and I am trying to glean an idea of what I am facing and how I need to work against it.

As such, any information or advise on how to player against Dark Eldar would be greatly appreciated. Also, here is a basic run down of my all-comers Guard list (2000 Points), I wish to keep it as all comers as possible, I just want some advise on how to maybe use it against this new foe.

CCS
x4 Plasma
Asto + OotF
Chimera

PCS
x4 Flamers
Chimera

PCS
x4 Flamers
Chimer

x4 Infantry Platoons
x4 Auto Cannons

Veterans
x3 melta
Chimera

Veterans
x3 Melta
Chimera

PBS
x9 Pyskers
Chimera

Vendetta
SWS x3 Flamers

Vendetta
SWS x3 Flamers

Manticore

Leman Russ Executioner

x2 Penal Legions

((Also considering maybe dropping the Legionares for a LRBT. I am afraid I am too low on anti marine killing power but the Legions have always worked great in the roles as outflankers and pulling people off objectives.))

Thanks in advance for the help!

Looks solid to me (keep in mind I don't play IG) but perhaps drop a vet squad for a hydra. The hydra would be way more effective than meltas vs raiders due to having an extra shot, longer range and the cover save removing ability so the DE player will have to rely on flicker fields if he has them.

I'd express a bit of concern about your list in and of itself...it looks like you're trying to have a firing line, mechanized and air cav all in one list. You seem to have enough armor saturation that you won't have to worry about that, but I would consider switching one of your infantry platoons for Hydras. I'd also recommend commissars for those Guardsmen blobs with autocannons...you don't wnat them crumpling the second Dark Eldar get into close combat with them.

But yeah, against Dark Eldar the IG has 2 large strengths: 1) Hydras, 2) Blobs

Hydras, as always, are death incarnate to skimmers that need that 4+ cover save from moving fast to live. It's even worse for the Dark Eldar thanks to flying AV10 open topped Raiders instead of the AV12 Falcon of the regular Eldard.

The IG can also just swarm the small elite Dark Eldar with an insane amount of bodies.Those splinter rifles may be wounidng as poisoned, nad thus be devastating to high toughness troops, but big enough power blobs will just swamp the Dark Eldar with sheer numbers of bodies...they just can't kill your men fast enough.

Hope this helps.

I'd argue against the inclusion of blobs vs Dark Eldar. Having multiple, 10-man squads may hurt you in KP games but DE are, essentially, Guardsmen when not in assault. Let them charge your 10-man squad, beat it to the ground, and then open up on them in your subsequent turn with shooting.

Blob squads are great against tough CC units like Terminators that they can grind down through attrition and judicious power weapon attacks. Sticking around in CC with DE is exactly what they want, as they are safe from all your shooting. Wyches, for example, don't give a toss about your power weapons (4++ in combat) but get massacred by shooting (6+ save).

I would, however, agree with the inclusion of a pair of Hydras. Autocannons wreck face against DE, and twin-linked autocannons that ignore SMF are just dirty.

L. Wrex

EDIT: The list itself is pretty solid. Plenty of AV12, h. and normal flamers, S6-7 shooting and a few blast templates/outflankers for flavour. Should do pretty well!

Oh well, yes, against Wyches and other things its better to stay back and shoot. But blobs still have a use in providing massed lasgun fire....I was saying that blobs COULD be taken, and instead of charging into the enemy like you usually would with powerblobs, you'd stick back and use FRFSRF to whittle them down.

DE don't rely too much on SMF. Most of the time, you want to be shooting with them, and the flickerfield means there's exactly as much chance of being destroyed as when moving flatout (even if they're 50% more likely to get a different damage result, an immobilized raider can still shoot, and a raider with its dark lance destroyed can move), and less when dealing with hydras.

Of course, your list will still probably chew DE up, due to the massive amount of armor and weapons that can down raiders. The only hope DE have is to pick apart your army piecemeal, while most of your weapons are out of range. Of course, bunching up means you're more vulnerable to the wonderful haywire grenades wyches carry...

Going MSU will also just be handing off free pain tokens to the enemy, so those wyches your firing on will have FNP after wiping the squad, meaning they'll have a 6+ followed by a 4+ FNP roll against weapons that both hit and wound on 4+'s. Any unit that's within 12" of them will inflict 2-3 wounds. In contrast, a 30 man blob with priest and commissar will inflict about 6-7 casualties, while taking nine, and hold fast due to a stubborn LD9 that rerolls. So, for 230 points, you get a unit that will kill ~120 point of wyches, who also took a raider, which is only really good as a transport, though its lance might do something, in exchange for losing about 40-50 points of troops, if you kept the the priest to the back and out of pile in range.

DE can't handle hordes. Unless they're running nine venoms, in which case your chimeras will laugh at them. Or they have a Razorwing, which is unlikely without a model for it yet.

Even if the Wyches gain FnP from one squad of IG, they don't get any save whatsoever against the multi-lasers from the Chimera (S6 ignores FnP and AP6 ignores their armour save). Granted it makes them significantly tougher against h. flamers, flamers and lasguns but with the sheer volume of fire you should be bringing down on their heads a 10-wo/man squad of Wyches won't last very long, especially if they took a casualty of two in the CC beforehand.

I just don't think that tying them down is the best thing to do. Against Incubi and Archons I can see the benefit in blob squads, against Wyches and Warriors I think its far easier to surrender a pain token and then shoot them down in your own turn. I guess it depends on what constitutes the opponent's list, but now we are entering list-tailoring territory and that's a wargaming faux pas.

L. Wrex

My DE list handles hordes quite nicely. @ 1850 I run 2 x 270 point squads of beastmasters that can tranple any parking lot army. I suggest you run 2-3 manticores as they will be your mvp againt DE. Then again my list is tuned specifically to beat your list, and is very rare for you to face. Remember, just as fearful you are of DE, they are just as fearful of you.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:Even if the Wyches gain FnP from one squad of IG, they don't get any save whatsoever against the multi-lasers from the Chimera (S6 ignores FnP and AP6 ignores their armour save). Granted it makes them significantly tougher against h. flamers, flamers and lasguns but with the sheer volume of fire you should be bringing down on their heads a 10-wo/man squad of Wyches won't last very long, especially if they took a casualty of two in the CC beforehand.

I just don't think that tying them down is the best thing to do. Against Incubi and Archons I can see the benefit in blob squads, against Wyches and Warriors I think its far easier to surrender a pain token and then shoot them down in your own turn. I guess it depends on what constitutes the opponent's list, but now we are entering list-tailoring territory and that's a wargaming faux pas.

L. Wrex

I'm not suggesting tying them down; a 30 man blob with commissar and priest will wipe them, on their turn if you charge, or yours if they charge you. Compared to hoping they don't manage to tie down/butcher your other squads, or get off a multiattack, or just hop your line with their skimmers and haywire the tanks you're apparently counting on, or just pop them from across the board with ravagers... With your forces concentrated, they will have a very hard time bringing enough to bear in melee, which most DE lists rely heavily on.

Ashenshugar wrote:My DE list handles hordes quite nicely. @ 1850 I run 2 x 270 point squads of beastmasters that can tranple any parking lot army. I suggest you run 2-3 manticores as they will be your mvp againt DE. Then again my list is tuned specifically to beat your list, and is very rare for you to face. Remember, just as fearful you are of DE, they are just as fearful of you.

Manticores aren't worth their points against any DE list that's not spamming Khymerae hordes. 160 points for ~two large blasts against a single skinny AV10 vehicle? That's a real waste, and has a good chance of not doing anything at all to it, if it scatters the wrong way. Two hydras would take up the same slot, cost less, and have a better chance of actually hurting the target.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:I'm not suggesting tying them down; a 30 man blob with commissar and priest will wipe them, on their turn if you charge, or yours if they charge you. Compared to hoping they don't manage to tie down/butcher your other squads, or get off a multiattack, or just hop your line with their skimmers and haywire the tanks you're apparently counting on, or just pop them from across the board with ravagers... With your forces concentrated, they will have a very hard time bringing enough to bear in melee, which most DE lists rely heavily on.

You make the assumption that the DE player is going to charge blindly into the teeth of a 30-man blob squad when, in reality, they will do anything but. What's to stop the DE player using his massive manoeuvrability advantage coupled with the fact that everyone can shoot from an open-topped vehicle to whittle the blob down? What if he charges one blob with 2, 3 or even 4 squads at once, all on one of your flanks, where you won't have the time to swing your other blobs around to support that combat?

You say the forces are concentrated, but that's completely ignoring the fact that DE have the speed and strength to hit your lines where you aren't concentrated. So rather than having the invincible combat blob tying up and butchering squads at whim, you'll have one blob getting reduced by fire, then demolished in CC, only to find the DE have re-meched up and legged it before your supporting blobs can get to grips with them.

I'm arguing that you use the IG squads in much the same way that Tau use Kroot, as a speed bump. Let them get charged and broken, and then shoot them. Then you're only down 60pts rather than 200-odd. A mechanised army has the advantage of range, so it doesn't have to risk getting massively multi-assaulted. The blob is not the be-all and end-all of IG tactics. It is good yes, but not the auto response to everything and anything your opponents can throw at you.

L. Wrex

My general idea for taking on the Dark Eldar is fairly simple:

If they get first turn I hold everything back, do my best to put as many raiders in the dirt and take out what is inside. If possible and if conditions are favorably, suicide flamer PCS's might get some turn one disembarked troops, however, against players with good positioning abilities, I am most likely looking to feed them a worthless guard squad so I can flamer wreck it once the combat is over. I intentionally do not Commissar these guys up, as I want the Deldar to charge, destroy me and then sit and get ready for the bakage that will come in the form of hull heavy flamers or PCS flamer death.

Vendettas will hopefully take out any long rang anti tank the Dark Eldar can throw at me, being that Dettas are every bit as mobile as their firing platforms (at least from what I recall of their last codex). Executioner and the x4 Plasma CCS should do the trick against those nasty 3+ armor save guys + archon they might throw at me.

If they get turn 2, I expect them to just reserve it all and for everything to play out like turn 1, except I might be able to take some better positions.

All in all, if both players know what they are doing, I expect it to all come down to positioning. I will have to make sure my guys are using the terrain to in the best possible way and make sure the guy has to chew through my trash squads to allow my flamers and tanks to wipe up what is left. Making sure my Vendettas can take out any long rang firing platforms while avoiding getting shot will also be paramount in this situation.

My primary concern seems to be things I keep hearing about but have no clue what they do, you guys mentioned pain tokens, some other abilities, and just some things I know nothing about. So, are there any such things I need to know about? What do these token do? Is there something in this Deldar codex (wargear or ability) that I might not see comng that will cause me a lot of pain? My apologies for a question easily solved by carefully reading a codex, but such resources are not available.

Power from Pain is an ability all Dark Eldar infantry units have. Basically it gives them USR's for killing things. For example:

A unit of Warriors (example) kills a Tactical squad. The Warriors gain a Pain Token, which confers the Feel No Pain USR on them.

The same unit then kills another Tactical squad. The Warriors gain another Pain token. This time, the token gives them the Furious Charge USR.

That same Warrior squad kills a third Tactical squad. The Warriors gain a third Token, this time confering the Fearless USR on them. After that, additional kills have no effect.

As to your list:

Hydra's are very good against Dark Eldar, but Multilasers are nearly just as good. I would suggest 2 Hydra's to start out as that's as many as you'd ever want to run anyway.

Also, PBS are quite good against them, as they lack (any?) significant psyker defense. Put them in Chimeras and go to town.

Vendettas are always great, but they won't live long against Dark Eldar. I would definitely also drop the SWS, as they suck. Sorry.

odorofdeath wrote:After that, additional kills have no effect.

This is not entirely accurate. Additional kills will still confer additional pain tokens, it's just that after 3, the pain tokens have no additional benefit. If you have an IC in the squad, he can walk away to share the pain thus making use of the additional tokens.

A unit of Warriors (example) kills a Tactical squad. The Warriors gain a Pain Token, which confers the Feel No Pain USR on them.

The same unit then kills another Tactical squad. The Warriors gain another Pain token. This time, the token gives them the Furious Charge USR.

That same Warrior squad kills a third Tactical squad. The Warriors gain a third Token, this time confering the Fearless USR on them. After that, additional kills have no effect.

As to your list:

Hydra's are very good against Dark Eldar, but Multilasers are nearly just as good. I would suggest 2 Hydra's to start out as that's as many as you'd ever want to run anyway.

Also, PBS are quite good against them, as they lack (any?) significant psyker defense. Put them in Chimeras and go to town.

Vendettas are always great, but they won't live long against Dark Eldar. I would definitely also drop the SWS, as they suck. Sorry.

Ok, that is the sort of stuff I am looking for. Knowing that the squad will have FNP after they eat my troop shield is going to be beneficial and something I will try my best to keep a note of, seeing as it will make the counter flame attack a lot less effective.

As to the PBS, that is why I keep at least one in my list at all times. Making a nice expensive squad of X run away after taking a few wounds is always amazing (seeing Shrike and 15+ space marine jump troops 3d6 off the board is a crowning moment for me).

The SWS arn't that great, I know. However, they are only 30 points a pop and they make my vendettas scoring units. The list allows very little wiggle room in the way of points and I would rather have the ability to last turn catch objectives and / flame some loser non-MEQ squad off an objective than cough up 5 more points for Marbo.

Otherwise, any more abilities like what was described above? Is there still wargear that lowers my LD when they are around or some such nonsense? I know Deldar are all about the tricks and that is what makes me wary.

Plus, and your list looks good, armor 12 is a huge pain in the dark eldar's butt. Shep wrote up a great batrep showing how much DE hate av12 spam.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:I'm not suggesting tying them down; a 30 man blob with commissar and priest will wipe them, on their turn if you charge, or yours if they charge you. Compared to hoping they don't manage to tie down/butcher your other squads, or get off a multiattack, or just hop your line with their skimmers and haywire the tanks you're apparently counting on, or just pop them from across the board with ravagers... With your forces concentrated, they will have a very hard time bringing enough to bear in melee, which most DE lists rely heavily on.

You make the assumption that the DE player is going to charge blindly into the teeth of a 30-man blob squad when, in reality, they will do anything but. What's to stop the DE player using his massive manoeuvrability advantage coupled with the fact that everyone can shoot from an open-topped vehicle to whittle the blob down? What if he charges one blob with 2, 3 or even 4 squads at once, all on one of your flanks, where you won't have the time to swing your other blobs around to support that combat?

You say the forces are concentrated, but that's completely ignoring the fact that DE have the speed and strength to hit your lines where you aren't concentrated. So rather than having the invincible combat blob tying up and butchering squads at whim, you'll have one blob getting reduced by fire, then demolished in CC, only to find the DE have re-meched up and legged it before your supporting blobs can get to grips with them.

I'm arguing that you use the IG squads in much the same way that Tau use Kroot, as a speed bump. Let them get charged and broken, and then shoot them. Then you're only down 60pts rather than 200-odd. A mechanised army has the advantage of range, so it doesn't have to risk getting massively multi-assaulted. The blob is not the be-all and end-all of IG tactics. It is good yes, but not the auto response to everything and anything your opponents can throw at you.

L. Wrex

Personally, I'm much more afraid of facing a horde than a mechanized gunline with DE. Against a mechanized gunline lance spam can drastically reduce incoming fire, and haywire grenades can tear it apart up close. If they're spread out, I can refused flank and chew them up, without having to worry about most of their guns at any given point, while if they bunch up I can multiattack with haywire wyches. If the Razorwing model was out, I wouldn't be afraid of hordes either, because of the insane missile alpha-strike it can dish out (four S6 AP5 large blasts with 48" range by default, with an S7 AP- that rerolls to wound or a poisoned 2+ AP5 with pinning upgrade available for five points per shot).

Even if the DE player manages to wipe out the 240 point blob with four wych squads (almost 500 points at the least, unless they lack any upgrades whatsoever), he's still only getting two tokens from it (one for the blob, one for the priest), and any other blobs you have should be close enough to FRFSRF them into oblivion, at which point they'll drastically outnumber the wyches. You also render the massive investment in anti-tank completely worthless ("nice 115 point Ravager you got there, bet it can kill one whole 5 point guardsman per turn!"). The only kind of DE list to be afraid of with a horde is something like Dash's leafblower venom spam list, which should be able to inflict 36 casualties against any infantry with a 5+ or worse armor save per turn. As that has effectively nothing to deal with armor aside from three ravagers and a few short range blasters in the venoms, I wouldn't expect to face anything like it in practice.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The only kind of DE list to be afraid of with a horde is something like Dash's leafblower venom spam list, which should be able to inflict 36 casualties against any infantry with a 5+ or worse armor save per turn. As that has effectively nothing to deal with armor aside from three ravagers and a few short range blasters in the venoms, I wouldn't expect to face anything like it in practice.

That and my 2 x Beastmaster list. 1850 tourney this weekend, first officially time to try it out, but I've tuned it in practice game against my friend's SW longfang and IG blob squad/mech lists. A beastmaster unit eats IG blobs for breakfast without breaking a sweat. When you face one don't say you weren't warned.

OP: Add an inquisitor to your list - his ability to cause a leadership test combined with the PBS will handle the beast units just fine.

The bane of Dark Eldar is the chimera, not the hydra or the leman russ, or anything else - the chimera. Hydras are deadly too, but multi-lasers drop triple the fire of a raider; and while a raider needs a 3+ to hit, 4+ to glance with a single shot, you need 4+ to hit, 4+ to glance with three shots...on a cheaper platform.

Chimera your DE opponent to death.

Dashofpepper wrote:OP: Add an inquisitor to your list - his ability to cause a leadership test combined with the PBS will handle the beast units just fine.

That's not a solution, as beastmasters can charge directly from the WWP. Also this is why I use 2 x beastmasters, just in case someone uses that kind of shenanigans, I have a a redundant backup.

OP: Add an inquisitor to your list - his ability to cause a leadership test combined with the PBS will handle the beast units just fine.

Which ability are you refering to Dash? I used to run the traditional Inquisitor back in the day but I received so much grief over it being cheesy that I ended just dropping it from the list altogether. Also, I was told they FAQ'd about being to take them and so have not run them.

You know, as I type that out and look at what I just wrote....I feel kind of silly for thinking they were FAQ'd out.

Dash speaks the truth. I have played against the new Dark Eldar 4 times. All 4 times, my opponent used a heavy Raider/Ravager list. I won all 4 times, by a wide margin.

Chimera's really, really make D.Eldar cry... lances are bleh against them, and multilaser's do terrible things to open topped av10 skimmers.

Oh, and Inguisitor's are perfectly legal. And I believe Dash is talking about a psychic power that the Inq has access too... myself, I just take him with Mystics and Hierophants for the psychic and deepstrike defense.

Manstein wrote:

OP: Add an inquisitor to your list - his ability to cause a leadership test combined with the PBS will handle the beast units just fine.

Which ability are you refering to Dash? I used to run the traditional Inquisitor back in the day but I received so much grief over it being cheesy that I ended just dropping it from the list altogether. Also, I was told they FAQ'd about being to take them and so have not run them.

You know, as I type that out and look at what I just wrote....I feel kind of silly for thinking they were FAQ'd out.

I wrote something in another thread that I thought would be appropriate advise for you:

I get a little enraged when people accuse me of cheese these days, because the issue is never cheese, it is incompetence. Back before I realized how thin most peoples' skin is, I would practice for tournaments by going to a local store, asking one of the locals for a game, presenting them my army list, telling them how I run it, and then asking them to build the meanest list they could that would take me down. I'm at the point in my gaming career now where I *know* what I'm afraid of in which codexes, and don't need help figuring it out, so I don't need to go through those kind of exercises anymore. Nonetheless, at that time and place, such exercises made me an unpopular with locals - a lot of people think getting your face beaten in on the table is an excuse to dislike someone and accuse them of cheese instead of as a learning opportunity to improve your gaming.

Where I live now, the same exercise with locals (at two of my three fairly local stores) gets positive results - people build lists that they think can beat me and ASK me for a chance to prove it - and I'm happy for the challenge. I'm headed to a tournament this weekend at a store where I won "Best Overall" last month with a flawless victory - full battlepoints, tabled all three opponents for full victory points...given the chat during my subsequent visit for friendly gaming, I'm expecting several folks to be there this weekend with lists designed purely to try taking down my "cheese."
--------------------------------------------
That was a rambling way of saying this: OP, cheese people are regional. Some areas of the country have crappy gamers, others have exceptional gamers. Don't presume your locals are crappy and will accuse you of cheese just because you've seen so much discussion of it on Dakka. Hold to your confidence, make the best army list you can and do the best you can with it. If someone levies a cry of "cheese" at you for what you've done, either dismiss them, or if you're feeling generous try explaining to them all the methods to counter what they feel is cheese in your list.

Stand fast!

As to the specific inquisitor question: I'm guessing he was referring to a WitchHunter Inquisitor with "Divine Pronouncement". Psychic shooting attack, causes the target unit to take a LD test or fall back as if they had taken 25% casulties. If the Inquisitor's LD is higher than the target's, the difference is a penalty on the target's check.

Nasty by itself (especially on a LD7 or 8 unit), very nasty with PBS.

And it has an 18" range... he would have to feed the beastmasters a squad before he even gets to use it.

I wrote something in another thread that I thought would be appropriate advise for you:

I get a little enraged when people accuse me of cheese these days, because the issue is never cheese, it is incompetence. Back before I realized how thin most peoples' skin is, I would practice for tournaments by going to a local store, asking one of the locals for a game, presenting them my army list, telling them how I run it, and then asking them to build the meanest list they could that would take me down. I'm at the point in my gaming career now where I *know* what I'm afraid of in which codexes, and don't need help figuring it out, so I don't need to go through those kind of exercises anymore. Nonetheless, at that time and place, such exercises made me an unpopular with locals - a lot of people think getting your face beaten in on the table is an excuse to dislike someone and accuse them of cheese instead of as a learning opportunity to improve your gaming.

Where I live now, the same exercise with locals (at two of my three fairly local stores) gets positive results - people build lists that they think can beat me and ASK me for a chance to prove it - and I'm happy for the challenge. I'm headed to a tournament this weekend at a store where I won "Best Overall" last month with a flawless victory - full battlepoints, tabled all three opponents for full victory points...given the chat during my subsequent visit for friendly gaming, I'm expecting several folks to be there this weekend with lists designed purely to try taking down my "cheese."
--------------------------------------------
That was a rambling way of saying this: OP, cheese people are regional. Some areas of the country have crappy gamers, others have exceptional gamers. Don't presume your locals are crappy and will accuse you of cheese just because you've seen so much discussion of it on Dakka. Hold to your confidence, make the best army list you can and do the best you can with it. If someone levies a cry of "cheese" at you for what you've done, either dismiss them, or if you're feeling generous try explaining to them all the methods to counter what they feel is cheese in your list.

The irony of this whole thread is that I believe we live in the same area Dash. One of the main reasons I asked some of these questions is because a few friends of mine at home told me that you had moved in to the area and that some new stiff competition would be around as a result. Not to sound like an ass, but I before I signed up to move to Germany for a year I found the gaming scene at my LFGS to have grown quite stale. As a college student I really lacked the funds to travel around and find games in other areas so I found myself limited to my "pond" and I dominated it; taking first place in 4 tournies straight, 2nd once and finally coming in 3rd my last go around ended up breeding a bad atmosphere for me. It got so bad that I simply took over the TO position and did that for close to a year before I left, contenting myself with a game here and there on free gaming nights (a task that I found increasingly difficult as I started getting less and less people who wanted to play against me). I always played fair, never rules lawyered people, and always just wanted a fun and relaxed game. Nevertheless, I became the "leaf blower guy" using pretty much the same list you see above.

With that small rant over and moving back to my original point, I naturally find the opportunity to play a well known player outside of my "pond", although I am out of practice, something I would love to get a shot at. Perhaps if you ever make your way to Little Wars sometime over the next month you can show me in person what to fear from Deldar!

Ashenshugar wrote:And it has an 18" range... he would have to feed the beastmasters a squad before he even gets to use it.

Not really - I can think of a number of times the Beasts would be sitting 24" away from the front lines (In fact, I would think they'd want to be closer - they have a max 24" threat range, and that assumes a 6" fleet move). Now, are they going to be within 24" of the Inquisitor? Probably not, but that's what transports are for.

Divine Pronouncement sounds good, but not good enough to give up my "across the board" ld10 Hood and deep-strike defense.

PBS are also excellent at forcing failed Ld. checks and can drop a pie plate on someone to boot.

As to the OP's list: If you want to take a blob, you should really []really[/i] have a Commissar so they dont poop their pants immediately.

I have no experience with Penal Legions, but after being subjected to "fun" random tables with Possessed and Fabius Bile, I can tell you they won't be reliable.

As to the OP's list: If you want to take a blob, you should really []really[/i] have a Commissar so they dont poop their pants immediately.

That's the thing here, the foot sloggers in this case are only meant to bubble wrap my more valuable unit against that first charge. The squads are bare bones and their sole purpose is to die and leave the Deldar standing around saying "hi" to my counter charge flamers. At least, this is the plan that I have used in the past against all assaults against me and I feel this may be the best bet against the new deldar was well.

You should still take a Commissar. Sometimes you want the blob to hold, for a little bit longer, and you can always kill the Commissar when you want the blob to break.

Manstein wrote:
With that small rant over and moving back to my original point, I naturally find the opportunity to play a well known player outside of my "pond", although I am out of practice, something I would love to get a shot at. Perhaps if you ever make your way to Little Wars sometime over the next month you can show me in person what to fear from Deldar!

I'll be at Little Wars this weekend for their tournament; bring your A game. =D

However, Mech IG are the worst possible matchup for Mechanized IG. Eh, would be a good fight.