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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 21:47:37
Subject: Bullets
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Exactly how many bullets can Space Marine carry?
I know for a fact that IG do not need secundary pack because their Lasgun can recharge on sunlight, but what about Space Marines?
I know that standard bolter can hold 20-30 rounds, they can expand that up to 60 rounds. But how many rounds they can carry with them.
I have never seen (expect in Fire Warrior and upcoming Space Marine) that Marines EVER reload their bolter - not even in the "Ultramarines".
I thought that they reload in their spare time - when we are not looking. But when reading about the Battle for Macragge, the defense of the polar fortress, I read that remaining 6 Ultramarines Terminators hold entire Tyranid invasion force for 6 HOURS. They formed a circle and slowly dying one by one. How the hell did they manage to reload their Storm Bolters? Knowing the Tyranids and how they attack, they just wouldn't have time to reload because of their speed. So how do they do it?
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For Emperor and Imperium!!!!
None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!!
Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever"
Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done"
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 21:50:43
Subject: Bullets
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 22:12:52
Subject: Bullets
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Also, remember that marines are SUPPOSED to fight in quick, decisive shock battles. Gruelling battles of attrition may require two laspacks, one to fire while the other recharges, swapping the two endlessly, but fast shock battles are going to be over before you expend your ammunition, and the extra bullets just weigh you down.
My guess is as the above. Those rare instances where marines fight for more than like an hour at a time, they probably whip out the power weapons and start the beatdown hand-to-hand.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 22:15:34
Subject: Re:Bullets
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Legendary Dogfighter
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
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Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour. This would normally mean that SM only carry one mag when they go to battle, which means only 20-60 rounds for the entire battle. I know that SM are especially skilled marksmen and that they often stick to the motto "one shot, one kill", but it sounds quite unrealistic, to say the least.
I know we need to think about the "rule of cool", but I have to disagree here, because I think seeing a superhuman reload his massive gun super-fast (a bit like in CoD  ) would be bloody awesome.
I would definitely like to see some SM minis reloading their bolters or see a SM reload his gun at least once in the entire film Ultramarines.
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"How many more worlds do we sacrifice? How many more millions or billions do we betray before we turn and fight?" - attributed to Captain Leoten Semper of Battlefleet Gothic - Gothic War, the evacuation of Belatis.
If commanding a Titan is a measure of true power, then commanding a warship is like having one foot on the Golden Throne - Navy saying. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 22:18:39
Subject: Bullets
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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I have a few minis modeled to be reloading. It DOES look cool, I have to admit.
However, the effort it took was surprising, and I'm glad it was only one or two of them I converted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 22:20:43
Subject: Bullets
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
Princedom of Buenos Aires
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Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.
They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.
It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:03:19
Subject: Bullets
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Dark wrote:Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.
They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.
It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.
Ok for that, but what about "Ultramarines"? They didn't change mag even once and movie is so what realistic than video games. Automatically Appended Next Post: Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.
You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
I don't buy it. Single Genesteller can rip apart Terminator armor, and they where ordinary Terminators - so just power fist and sergeant was probably had power sword with him. I understand that they shoot them for hours, and when Tyranids get near them they rip them to shreds.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/17 23:08:01
For Emperor and Imperium!!!!
None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!!
Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever"
Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done"
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:11:43
Subject: Bullets
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Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel
...urrrr... I dunno
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Brother Coa wrote:
Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Presumably they didn't reload their storm bolters, but instead fired until their magazines were empty and then fought with their power weapons and power fists.
As to other stuff, well, dramatic license probably takes precedence here.
You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
I don't buy it. Single Genesteller can rip apart Terminator armor, and they where ordinary Terminators - so just power fist and sergeant was probably had power sword with him. I understand that they shoot them for hours, and when Tyranids get near them they rip them to shreds.
Yep, that's precisely what I'm telling you. I think you underestimate a Terminator's chances in combat. Genestealers may be able to tear Terminator Armour, but that takes effort and time. In a one-on-one fight, Terminators have the edge - they are better protected, harder hitting and more capable of doing damage. All they would have to do was occupy chokepoints in the fortress and they could in theory hold out for a very long time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/17 23:12:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:17:23
Subject: Bullets
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
Princedom of Buenos Aires
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Brother Coa wrote:Dark wrote:Laodamia wrote:Actually, if we take a look at the SM minis, we can't even see spare ammo mags attached to their power armour.
They come in the srpues in sets of 2. You got large ones for Boltgun's chargers and smaller ones for Bolt Pistol's chargers.
It just happends that most people won't put them on their minis.
Ok for that, but what about "Ultramarines"? They didn't change mag even once and movie is so what realistic than video games.
Now that you mention it, they have them hanging on their right side.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:18:23
Subject: Bullets
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Kinebrach-Knobbling Xeno Interrogator
South Saint Paul, MN, USA
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I have a few minis modeled to be reloading. It DOES look cool, I have to admit.
However, the effort it took was surprising, and I'm glad it was only one or two of them I converted.
I would like to see pics of those models
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-2500 pts.
GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours, doesn't mean that you can borrow mine.
+ =
My Blog: http://blogofajuniorofficer.blogspot.com/
DR:90S+G++MB+I+Pw40k09#+D++A+/rWD-R+++T(M)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:33:54
Subject: Bullets
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The number of movies where I ever see anybody reloading anything is really pretty fething low..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:54:56
Subject: Bullets
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
Princedom of Buenos Aires
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Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/17 23:57:03
Subject: Bullets
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Brother Coa wrote:You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
Actually, them being able to endlessly stave off a tyranid horde for hours with just shooting is equally ridiculous. When you've got 100 critters moving at you at the speed of a Buick, you're going to tell me that a space marine is going to one-kill-per-shot and entire horde for an hour while on full auto?
Against tyranid, you don't get that long to shoot them before they make it into close combat. The only way to stop them with bolt fire is to kill them literally faster than they can run, which isn't happening, needing to reload or not.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 00:00:42
Subject: Bullets
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
Princedom of Buenos Aires
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Ailaros wrote:Brother Coa wrote:You want to tell me that they spend their bullets and they fight in close combat with million of Tyanids for several hours?
Actually, them being able to endlessly stave off a tyranid horde for hours with just shooting is equally ridiculous. When you've got 100 critters moving at you at the speed of a Buick, you're going to tell me that a space marine is going to one-kill-per-shot and entire horde for an hour while on full auto?
Against tyranid, you don't get that long to shoot them before they make it into close combat. The only way to stop them with bolt fire is to kill them literally faster than they can run, which isn't happening, needing to reload or not.
I imagine them, in such scenario, to be just buying time for the civilians to be evacuated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 00:31:13
Subject: Bullets
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
Yep, that's precisely what I'm telling you. I think you underestimate a Terminator's chances in combat. Genestealers may be able to tear Terminator Armour, but that takes effort and time. In a one-on-one fight, Terminators have the edge - they are better protected, harder hitting and more capable of doing damage. All they would have to do was occupy chokepoints in the fortress and they could in theory hold out for a very long time.
And you underestimate the situation here.
1- Fight was not one on one but 1000 to one at the same time.
2- They did not ocupy any checkpoints, it says in the book that all 6 of them where standing in the middle of the room like one in the "Ultramarines" movie where they fought daemon in the end.
3- Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.
In the end only sergeant was alive, and he was still able to kill Carnifex before he died. And I do not underestimate Terminator armor, but Genestealer are a Genestealer and Tyranids are Tyranids. And if you don't know - Genestealer can break trough TA instantly and kill the Marine wearing it. Just see the space hulk situation.
On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?
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For Emperor and Imperium!!!!
None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!!
Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever"
Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done"
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 00:39:17
Subject: Re:Bullets
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Stormin' Stompa
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It could be worse, they could be Russians. One guy gets a gun and the other gets the magazine.
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Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 00:43:51
Subject: Bullets
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Legendary Dogfighter
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...
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Dark wrote:Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.
IMHO, this is only a poor appreciation of the audience's expectations. I agree that there is no need of showing all the scenes where a character reloads his weapon. But not showing any of these scenes at all will only destroy the film's realism and credibility. Especially in a film like Ultramarines, where the audience will probably have a very large knowledge of the story's background and will be expecting high levels of realism (especially during the action scenes  ).
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"How many more worlds do we sacrifice? How many more millions or billions do we betray before we turn and fight?" - attributed to Captain Leoten Semper of Battlefleet Gothic - Gothic War, the evacuation of Belatis.
If commanding a Titan is a measure of true power, then commanding a warship is like having one foot on the Golden Throne - Navy saying. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 01:10:06
Subject: Bullets
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
Princedom of Buenos Aires
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Laodamia wrote:Dark wrote:Well, in my "Visual language" class I was told that one must assume that the viewers are smart enough to assume that the characters reload their guns, and it's only shown when it's usefull to the narrative.
IMHO, this is only a poor appreciation of the audience's expectations. I agree that there is no need of showing all the scenes where a character reloads his weapon. But not showing any of these scenes at all will only destroy the film's realism and credibility. Especially in a film like Ultramarines, where the audience will probably have a very large knowledge of the story's background and will be expecting high levels of realism (especially during the action scenes  ).
Losing precious minutes on that normally isn't a good thing. And while we're at the "IMHO"s, the Ultras movie isn't the best example at anything but on how to not make an official movie.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 01:54:20
Subject: Bullets
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Steadfast Grey Hunter
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What book are you referencing exactly?
As far as I knew, the only established fluff involving the First Company of the Ultramarines during the Battle for Macragge was that they defended the polar fortresses of the world, retreating step by step, and making the Tyranids pay with blood for every step they took back.
They all ended up dead in the end of it, but the Tyranids were as well.
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As for the ammo question, in 'False Gods', the Astartes of the Sons of Horus seem to carry a couple of hundred rounds each for the standard Bolter.
As said earlier on, the Astartes are a rapid-strike 'speartip' force, moving in quickly and ripping out the throat of the enemy by destroying key targets with speed and precision. If they were in a longer engagement where they couldn't retrieve more ammo, they go to blades.
If they're fighting a planned defensive action they'd have access to more ammunition....if they could get time to restock.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 01:55:23
'Follow me, Sons of Russ! This night our enemies shall feel the fangs of the Wolf!' - Logan Grimnar |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 02:37:26
Subject: Bullets
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Brother Coa wrote:Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.
VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?
Yeah, what you're talking about sounds like you were reading some bad fan fiction, or sanctioned bad fan fiction (aka black library), or bad fan fiction in the by-pages of a rulebook (like much of what makes it into codecies).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 02:39:37
Subject: Bullets
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Sneaky Striking Scorpion
New Iberia, Louisiana, USA
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Ailaros wrote:Brother Coa wrote:Book also said that they where SHOOTING the whole time, and they fought for 6 HOURS. When they where forced to CC they where all killed almost instantly.
VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?
Yeah, what you're talking about sounds like you were reading some bad fan fiction, or sanctioned bad fan fiction (aka black library), or bad fan fiction in the by-pages of a rulebook (like much of what makes it into codecies).
Actually, I believe it's the Tyranid codex. Maybe the SM codex?
So yeah, bad fan-faction.
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DS:80+S+G++M---B--IPw40k10#+D++A/eWD-R+T(D)DM+
Current Race - Eldar
Record with Eldar 1-0-2 (W-L-D)
Last game was a DRAW against DARK ELDAR.
I shake your hand and say "Good Game". How are you a good sport? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 04:20:04
Subject: Re:Bullets
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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When you are fighting Tyranids, you don't need to aim and one bolt round could penetrate a gaunt and then hit another.
a Space marine typically carries 4-5 Magazines. each mag holds between 20-30 rounds if it's the standard sickle mag.
the Models we have are not proper scale. the hands and weapons are too large for the body.
the Ammo bags that all the models come with would be capable of holding several extra mags.
Stormbolter Drum mags hold 40-60 rounds. terminators can carry spare mags. Grey Knight models actually have spare mags clipped to their belts.
in a drawn out battle, Chapter serfs would be tasked with resupplying marines with more ammo. this actually happens in Brothers of the Snake by Abnett. the Marines are fighting Orks with Bolters and Sea Pikes. the marines use their bolters until they are out of ammo and pick up their Pikes until they get more ammo from the serfs.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 04:55:21
Subject: Bullets
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thankyou, chapter serfs is the answer. I'm unsure how marines in TDA armed with a power fist could reload anyway as the fist would make it difficult to handle the magazine. I assume they could also have some sort of auto-loader built into the armour so they eject the spent magazine, the auto-loader preps the fresh one and the marine jams the stormbolter over it to click it into place. Prolonged battles would require someone like a serf or servitor with access to a large supply of ammo to pass the fresh ammo to the marines.
They have the skill to make the whole scene look like some juggling act as magazines are thrown at the marines and they catch them mid-air using the stormbolters, clicking them into place at the same time Automatically Appended Next Post: Stories from mediaeval times might suggest that a lone knight went out to fight the evil count but then you realise that the knight is the only one thought to be worth mentioning and he actually has several others with him such as servants and armed retainers.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 05:00:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 05:18:00
Subject: Re:Bullets
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Power Fists are still capable of manipulating delicate things.
Marneus Calgar is drinks some Wine out of a Crystal Glass in the Ultramarine omnibus while wearing his pimp fists.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 05:18:19
Subject: Bullets
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RogueSangre
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On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?
To answer that topic, we need to attempt to apply a few real world concepts to this peice of fluff.
Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.
Secondly, a squad learns how to fight as a cohesive unit, including how to stagger shooting and reloads so that at no point is the whole squad out of ammo. This is achieved by simple communication. One warrior shouting "Reloading!" is ample enough wordage to communicate to his comrades that they should increase their volumes of fire to compensate for the momentary loss in firepower while he changes his magazine. The more a unit fights together, the better at this they become. They learn their shooting habits of their fellows, and thus are able to stagger their reloads much more precisely. Terminators are extremely professional and experienced warriors who spend vast amounts of time training or fighting alongside their battle brothers. There is no reason to doubt the fact that they are as cohesive as is possible.
Thirdly, like the vast majority of ballistic small arms, we can assume that Storm Bolters need to have their firing mechanisms manually charged in some form or another to initiate firing. And like the vast majority of box magazine fed small arms, if the magazine is reloaded while the final bullet from the previous magazine is still in the chamber, the weapon will not have to be manually charged again after reloading. It can simply keep firing. This can save precious seconds in a firefight. In order to facilitate this, one needs to know how many rounds are left in his weapon. Thus, one needs to be familiar enough with his weapon to accurately "count bullets" or have some alternative method of knowing his ammunition supply, (like an ammo counter on a HUD). Terminators assuredly have both.
Finally, muscle memory is a huge contributing factor in weapon reload speed. In order to reload smoothly, with no fumbling or failing, one needs to practice reloading the same weapon system many, many times. In the 6-ish years I've operated the M4 carbine and dimensionally equivalent replicas, I've gained the ability to do just that. Surely an individual that has had decades, if not centuries, to practice that, can reload flawlessly.
A wordy answer to a simple question, bu there it is nonetheless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 05:20:47
Subject: Re:Bullets
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Totally agree.
if a human can learn to reload a gun in a second or less over a few years, imagine how fast a Super Human, who has had centuries of getting to know his weapon and it's innermost secrets, can reload.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 06:01:29
Subject: Bullets
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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Didn't they put the "Terminators carry no extra ammo!" thing to rest awhile ago, stating that the magazines have magnetic clips to attach them to the armor?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 06:06:18
Subject: Re:Bullets
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Power Armor, and assumedly TDA, has Magnetic sections along the Thighs where marines can clamp metal objects. normally they stick their bolters there when they need both hands, but Mags would work too.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 08:14:46
Subject: Bullets
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Confessor Of Sins
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Terminators have other weapons than stormbolters - a heavy flamer, assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher can surely empty a whole section of the room? That should buy time to reload too.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/18 08:15:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/18 10:15:18
Subject: Bullets
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:What book are you referencing exactly?
As far as I knew, the only established fluff involving the First Company of the Ultramarines during the Battle for Macragge was that they defended the polar fortresses of the world, retreating step by step, and making the Tyranids pay with blood for every step they took back.
They all ended up dead in the end of it, but the Tyranids were as well.
Index Astartes III, Defenders of Ultramar, page 53 - "The Lament of the First"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Commander Endova wrote:On topic, how where they been able to shoot for 6 hours? And where did they find time to change mags when Tyranids where on top of them?
To answer that topic, we need to attempt to apply a few real world concepts to this peice of fluff.
Firstly, one never fires a continuous stream of fire. To shoot with any sort of accuracy, one must shoot in bursts. There are a number of reasons for this, but ammo conservation is one of them, and for our purposes, the most relevant.
Secondly, a squad learns how to fight as a cohesive unit, including how to stagger shooting and reloads so that at no point is the whole squad out of ammo. This is achieved by simple communication. One warrior shouting "Reloading!" is ample enough wordage to communicate to his comrades that they should increase their volumes of fire to compensate for the momentary loss in firepower while he changes his magazine. The more a unit fights together, the better at this they become. They learn their shooting habits of their fellows, and thus are able to stagger their reloads much more precisely. Terminators are extremely professional and experienced warriors who spend vast amounts of time training or fighting alongside their battle brothers. There is no reason to doubt the fact that they are as cohesive as is possible.
Thirdly, like the vast majority of ballistic small arms, we can assume that Storm Bolters need to have their firing mechanisms manually charged in some form or another to initiate firing. And like the vast majority of box magazine fed small arms, if the magazine is reloaded while the final bullet from the previous magazine is still in the chamber, the weapon will not have to be manually charged again after reloading. It can simply keep firing. This can save precious seconds in a firefight. In order to facilitate this, one needs to know how many rounds are left in his weapon. Thus, one needs to be familiar enough with his weapon to accurately "count bullets" or have some alternative method of knowing his ammunition supply, (like an ammo counter on a HUD). Terminators assuredly have both.
Finally, muscle memory is a huge contributing factor in weapon reload speed. In order to reload smoothly, with no fumbling or failing, one needs to practice reloading the same weapon system many, many times. In the 6-ish years I've operated the M4 carbine and dimensionally equivalent replicas, I've gained the ability to do just that. Surely an individual that has had decades, if not centuries, to practice that, can reload flawlessly.
A wordy answer to a simple question, bu there it is nonetheless.
I agree. Thank you for answering this.
This only leaves one question: how many bullets they carry? If they where able to shoot for 6 hours in never ending horde of aliens how many bullets have they spent?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/18 10:23:38
For Emperor and Imperium!!!!
None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!!
Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever"
Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done"
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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