Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm trying to figure out which I should go with. Right now my basic troop is 9 grey hunters and a wolf guard in a rhino. The grey hunters + rhino cost about 200 after upgrades. Or should I go with smaller groups in razorbacks? I have no clue what to do. >_< For my 500 pt army it'll be rhinos (no guards of course), but once I expand I'm not as sure about it.

Any help? Really not sure about making lists very well without just throwing things together. I've had my list reviewed but no one mentioned the use of razorbacks instead.

Edit: 1000 pt list I made up, gonna be altered because I don't want to drop tons of money on missile launchers.

I'd go with Combat Squads and Razorbacks, personally. Since I'm not Space Wolves, I dunno if they can break down like that. But the added punch is always welcome.

They don't break down, but a GH pack is 5-10, so I'd be able to put 5 in with a wolf guard.

Space Wolves does Razorspam rather well. Special Weapons dont suffer from the detriment of Heavy Weapons in transports (they cant shoot if the transport moves). In addition, Grey Hunters take being charged well, so you can always roll up, disembark, unload all of your lead (or bolt shells, plasma rounds and melta rounds) into a nearby target without much fear of being charged.

Blarg, this screws with my troop loadout. >_< Especially for the 500pt list. My 500pt list may have to evolve into a 750 pt list. But with the same number of grey hunters I now have 3 squads of 6, or should I do squads of 5 and attach a wolf guard to each?

I've played against a guy who takes razorback spam with 5 man Grey Hunter squads. It was nasty and not fun to fight since he just danced around my army all game.

Should I include a wolf guard with those 5? My original layout for the 9 + guard had the special weapons like this: meltagun, standard & mark on the hunters, and a combiflamer & a power fist on the guard. Would that be a good combo for the 4 hunter & guard in a razor? Though I would have to get more fists and standards. >_<

I think the standard list like that that everybody makes is 5 GH with a special weapon and a Wolf Guard with a combi flamer or melta, depending on what the unit's gonna be doing.

Moving to Tactics.

Never sure where to put most threads. Without buying them on their own, I'll never have enough standards. Not sure what I'll replace it with, maybe an upgrade to the razorback.

It seems like I'm being very encouraged to use the razor spam.

This means I have to very much change my list before I put together my models. Maybe make the standard bearing squad close combat focused and the other ones be more shooty.

Though making them more close combat focused will make them cost more points and more costly to lose. (or do the point costs matter when they die? still haven't had the time to read the rulebook, or most any non-textbook for that matter)

It depends on the rest of your list. The more shooty your list, the better I find Razorbacks. 10 man GH squads can be a gnarly pain in the as well.

I mean, I have no idea, I'm just starting so I don't know how to test the difference. >_<

Portaljacker wrote:I mean, I have no idea, I'm just starting so I don't know how to test the difference. >_<

Play some games. I recommend buying a razorback kit, as you can choose not to glue the top hatch down, so you can swap it and alternate between a rhino/razorback. 2 vehicles in one kit, but you can't use them both at the same time

I'd start with Rhino's. You'll get tempted to get up to shenanigans and try and pull that won't work with the razorback, because its a transport with a big gun, versus the rhino which is...just a transport. Use them to get where you need to go - onto objectives, intercept those jumppackers going for your long fangs, assist your dread when its in risk of getting tarpitted, getting up into the enemies grill... Use the transport to get around quickly and safely. Never forget your hatch on the top! you can fire two weapons out of it, and 10 man GH squads get two special weapons- this isn't a coincidence! Rhino's are mobile bunkers- you drive into gaunts/ork mobs and flame them from the safety of your rhino. Next turn, if there are boyz left, your rhino probably will get powerklawed- you might lose a marine or two. Then you have two choices- rapid fire the rest into the dirt and countercharge any survivors, or bolt pistol and charge yourself with 3 attacks on the charge! Once you feel you have the hang of maximizing on the pro's of transports, then I'd recommend trying out razorbacks.

Well by just starting I mean I only have the battleforce. All I'd add would be the transports. So not sure how good that is for testing. I don't want to buy my dread and all the other things yet until I sort those things out. That way I know what I need to add when I expand my list.

I'm really just not sure how to test my small army and build up a list while also finding out how I like to play. If I do it wrong I'll be putting more of a strain on my wallet than I already am. >_<

P.S. Your sig is distracting and awesome. Where'd you get it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm already guaranteed one razor/rhino for my birthday which is good. Or maybe there's something better I should request?

Portaljacker wrote:Though making them more close combat focused will make them cost more points and more costly to lose. (or do the point costs matter when they die? still haven't had the time to read the rulebook, or most any non-textbook for that matter)

Grey Hunters are already great for close combat, they get 2 attacks, standard (3 on the charge).

Portaljacker wrote: Without buying them on their own, I'll never have enough standards.

Sure you will. Each Space Wolf Pack box comes with two of the back-banner pieces that go on the backpacks. Those are perfect wolf banners.

As has been said, get the Razorback kit. Never buy a Rhino. You pay 3 dollars more for the heavy weapons, and as long as you don;t glue the top hatch down, it can be a Rhino or Razor.

Oh ya, so that means I have 4 from the battleforce.

Well switching to the 3 razors is gonna require some more planning now for my list. Any list building advice for a new player? I'm using battlescribe so at least it's hard to screw up adding up points.

I like running 5 man squads with flamers in a razorback with Lascannons. If you can get them, the las/plas turrets are regarded as a better choice than the TLLC turrets that come with the razor kit, but either are good and will destroy AV10-12 pretty reliably. If you have points, go ahead and give one grey hunter MotW and a Wolf Standard, that way your fewer numbers will be mitigated by the fact that you'll get bonus attacks from the mark, and the flamer is a great way to score lots of extra hits in the shooting phase.

Don't get out of the razor until you're in a position where you can suvive getting charged (I.e. don't jump out next to genestealers!) Flame the target, along with 4 or 5 rapid fire bolters, then counter-attack when the remains decide to make a last-ditch effort and claw at you.

Having 5 man squads in razors allows you to add a wolf guard if your list has points for them. I like my wolf guard with some sort of power weapon, like 2x wolf claws or a power fist for example, that gives your GH squad even more punch in CC and makes opponents think twice about charging into you.

On the topic of the flamer, I'm giving the guard a combiflamer, since I imagine I'd only really need to use it once. Though this means I'll have to order those blood angel hand flamers sooner.

My 500pt set up is like this.

Runepriest
chooser, LL , MH

6x Greyhunters (melta , )
Razorback TL/ Heavy B

4x Thunderwolves

6x Long Fangs
5x missile

3x Long Fangs
2x missile

You can choose to either go Chooser for Priest or swap it for standard on the Greyhunters I personally love the Chooser its hurts when you combine it with LL

Thunderwolves are not new player friendly. I can barely paint let alone mod models.

Wulfenone wrote:My 500pt set up is like this.

Runepriest
chooser, LL , MH

6x Greyhunters (melta , )
Razorback TL/ Heavy B

4x Thunderwolves

6x Long Fangs
5x missile

3x Long Fangs
2x missile

You can choose to either go Chooser for Priest or swap it for standard on the Greyhunters I personally love the Chooser its hurts when you combine it with LL

Of course you'd win @500 points with that list -- It adds up to 650!! Are your 'thunderwolves' actually 'fenrisian wolves'? If not you can only fit in 1, with no upgrades, to meet the 500 point limit. Also that list is illegal in another fashion - it only has one unit of troops. You are required to take 2, even in 500 pt skirmish games.

Wulfenone wrote:My 500pt set up is like this.

Runepriest
chooser, LL , MH

6x Greyhunters (melta , )
Razorback TL/ Heavy B

4x Thunderwolves

6x Long Fangs
5x missile

3x Long Fangs
2x missile

You can choose to either go Chooser for Priest or swap it for standard on the Greyhunters I personally love the Chooser its hurts when you combine it with LL

dont you need 1 hq 2 troops as the minimum for the foc ?

-edit- and do you dance in a gaybar for a living? because that list is some serious pole loving. I mean your trying to do the whole TWC/LF thing at 500 points, AND your going over (six four five). C'mon dude.

So maybe some non cheating list building advice?

500 points, razorspam, eh?

Rune priest with chooser 110

5 grey hunters, Flamer, mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard 100

Razorback, T-L AC(Lascannons if you cannot afford the ass-cannons $-wise) 75

5 Grey hunters, melta, mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard 105

Razor Back, T-L HB 40

land Speeder W/ HF+MM 60

Lone Wolf 20

This is what I came up with using what I have + 2 razors. It's 475pts, not sure what to add/change.

HQ:

Rune Priest
Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning, Power Armour, Runic Weapon

Elites:

Wolf Scouts
5x Wolf Scout
4x Bolt Pistol, 5x Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun

Troops:

Grey Hunters Pack
5x Grey Hunter, Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard
Razorback
Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

Grey Hunters Pack
5x Grey Hunter, Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard
Razorback
Twin-linked Heavy Bolter


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note I don't have any flamers because you don't get any in the wolf pack boxes that come in the battleforce or normally for that matter. The meltaguns had to be purchased in the blister GW sells, however they don't sell flamers. >_< It's rather hard to buy boxes for mixing when I have little to no money for the next while. I really will only have enough for the razors for the next little bit. Though I was thinking of doing land speeders when my army grows.

I feel ya on the $ limitations.

Do you have your Wolf packs assembled yet?

If not you may want to wait until you can get at least 1 if not 2 tactical boxes, The bitz are 100% compatible, plus you get 1 of each special weapon/tac box, and a Missile launcher/box(which of course you won't be able to use until you get enough for a LF squad).

This will give you 40 Space Wolf models(grey hunters, blood claws, or Wolf guard) that are slightly toned down in the area of "wolfyness", which is preferable to many players.

Personally; I don't like Wolf scouts(nor regular marine scouts) and Drop pods, so I avoided the battleforce altogether(It is quite a bit more expensive than 2 wolf pack boxes). Being a long time player/collector I had a great deal of bitz/old models lying around though so i was able to make quite a few wolves from my 2 boxes.

I am still, even with that, a few boxes away from completing my 1850 razorspam list(especially since I do not have any of the 6 Razors nor the Predator).

Is that list two posts ago a good setup? I'm not sure what to add to fill the 25pts, or what to change in the build.

Portaljacker wrote:This is what I came up with using what I have + 2 razors. It's 475pts, not sure what to add/change.

HQ:

Rune Priest
Jaws of the World Wolf, Living Lightning, Power Armour, Runic Weapon

Elites:

Wolf Scouts
5x Wolf Scout
4x Bolt Pistol, 5x Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun

Troops:

Grey Hunters Pack
5x Grey Hunter, Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard
Razorback
Twin-linked Heavy Bolter

Grey Hunters Pack
5x Grey Hunter, Mark of the Wulfen, Meltagun, Wolf Standard
Razorback
Twin-linked Heavy Bolter


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note I don't have any flamers because you don't get any in the wolf pack boxes that come in the battleforce or normally for that matter. The meltaguns had to be purchased in the blister GW sells, however they don't sell flamers. >_< It's rather hard to buy boxes for mixing when I have little to no money for the next while. I really will only have enough for the razors for the next little bit. Though I was thinking of doing land speeders when my army grows.

It's not bad. For 25p I would add a Chooser of the slain for the priest and a plasma pistol for the scouts. The PP can threaten rear armour with their outflanking shenanigans in combination with the meltagun, because missing that single anti armour shot when you need it bites, its nice to have that backup. And a chooser for the priest not only for the +1bs but at 500p there's more opportunity to use infiltrators, so it will also be useful for shutting them down.

Another thing, you might want to change the LL on the priest to Murderous hurricane. He doesn't have a firepoint when he's cruising with the hunters, so he can't really use it from the get go. I think he's more likely to be using powers once he gets out, and Jaws and MH gives you nice flexibility in that kind of range

If you're using Jaws and MH, you're never using your BS with either of the powers. CotS is only a 10 pt infiltrator defense.

If you keep LL, Keep CotS.
IF you bail LL for MH, dump CotS and buy a HK missile for one of your rides.

PP on the scouts is a handy idea, i agree there.