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Hello all! I would like to start off by saying I have done well with this list as of yet but I haven't found a weakness. or at least no one has shown me one.
I AM NOT BEING COCKY! just searching for improvements and ideas!

I understand there is no rhinos but mobility has not been an issue with me as of yet.


Basic Space Marine codex

HQ: 2

Pedro Kantor

Librarian, avenger, null zone, combi melta

TROOPS: 3

1st. Space Marines tactical squad (10) Las cannon, flamer, SGT with CC weapon.
2nd. Space Marines tactical squad (10) Las cannon, flamer, SGT with CC weapon.
3rd. Space Marines tactical squad (10) Las cannon, flamer, SGT with CC weapon.


ELITE: 3

Dreadnought no upgrades.

Assault terminators (10) 5 thunder hammers, 5 lightning claws.

Sternguard (10) no upgrades.



HEAVY SUPPORT: 2

Vindicator no upgrades.

Devastator squad (5) 4 rockets 1 SGT

Total 1850 exactly.


You can see a battle report of this list if you like:

Well if your doing well whats the problem?
There are lots of weaknesses as far as i can see. Stenguard without any combi-weapons and Transport, i wouldn't have thought would do well
A Multi-melta Dread without a drop pod.
Pedro without a transport
No bonus to your footsollogin terminators (Shrike Fleet/infiltrate for example)
Expensive Devastator squad.

But your doing well with it, so does it really matter?

I remember commenting on this before, saying I would cut a tac squad for another stern, not noticing you've picked 3 elites already.

I just think it's odd taking pedro if you're not going to take full advantage of the scoring sternguard, especially with losing combat tactics. And you already have 3-6 scoring units. I guess it's practical if you're already taking a stern squad and a chapter master, he's 50pts for some gear, attack bubble and the scoring thing.

I'm going to sort of disagree with rodgers37 in that I don't think the things he pointed out are really *weaknesses* per se, more like a bunch of things your army doesn't have that might make it more effective and/or efficient. Especially the combiweapons, they are totally cheap.

Weaknesses would be your general lack of mobility, and maybe the sparse amount of armoured targets you present. Also ranged AT consists of one missile battery and three solo lascannons.

Do you generally get good mileage out of the dreadnought and vindicator, or do they often die quickly? And the librarian, does he get to use avenger a lot? I would probably put him with the sternguard and move them with gate of infinity. It's a quick mobility fix that doesn't require rhinos, if you're hesitant about getting those. Why aren't you using rhinos?

Thats not a great looking list and I can really see you struggling on objective missions here, as those troops are going to be slow, even if you comabt squad them and leave the lascannon behind.

Army seems to be pretty short ranged overall, but with no real capacity to deliver the army where it needs to be.

Any decent assulty army or a gun line army could pull this apart, you are trying to put a mixed force out and this can be difficult.

At 1,850 you can get a lot of bang for your buck. For example, the following lists would cause you massive problems:

Mech spam B Angels.
Space wolves 3* long fangs
Mech IG of almost any combination
Mech Eldar
Genestealer heavy nids, maybe even a tervigon spam
Ork horde and battlewagon lists
Gunline Tau
... etc.

Hey, I even have Necron lists that could work here. If the army can keep away from your assualt termies and alpha strike that vindicator then the game seems over for you. Sorry.

I have a feeling my 1850 Tau would rip this up. Not being an e-peen here, I'm just saying that with the amount of ranged fire power I can put out, and the speed you are moving, compared to a Tau lists high mobility... it's basically like shooting fish in a barrel.

I would suggest improving your mobility. I don't see this faring well in objective based games, or games against a shootier force than you. (Tau, Guard, SW, Eldar.... etc)

Thanks for the feedback everyone!
I actually do the best in objective games. I never stretch myself thin for objectives I hold 1 contest the rest.
unless i start to dwindle them down then I can take more objectives.

I believe you guys are right a gun line army will prob be hard for this list.

I use Kantor for a force multiplier mainly for the +1 attack and he still has orbital which is nice

the dread and vindicator seem to survive fairly long. Sternguard/Terminators/vindicator seem to be the high priority targets.

I don't have rhinos because I see them as free KPs and I never had a problem running my guys. but against a gun line I can see that hurting me a bit.


I don't believe the devastator squad is too expensive at 150 points. I know its not cheaper like other armies but I don't think it goes overboard.



My thoughts are:

change avenger out for gate.

take 1 squad of Tactical marines out that frees up 180 points

replace it with

Rhino for the Sternguard
Marine Bike squad (4) 1 attack bike with multi melta and the SGT with melta bombs (can also use them for CC with gunline armies)


so that removes 1 squad and adds 2 mobility options and more anti tank.

I can always deepstrike 1 squad of terminators. and give the other squad of terminators the librarian and Kantor.

tell me what you think.

I agree, the space marines need rhinos it may seem like a free kill point but without the rhinos you now lose mobility in objective games and the guys will die if they try and footslog, I also think the dread will die because if is within 12" melta, the opponent will move and melta your dread, it needs a drop pod so it will be there turn 1 to pop a tank. I would also say you need a land raider for a kantor librarian and terminators because your main problem and major weakness is MOBILITY.

If you're going to gate the sternguard around, why are they getting the rhino?

You'll be much better served by a drop pod for the dread, if you're keeping it.

If not, a second sternguard unit with a pod might work well, given combiweapons. Give your devastators a pod as well, so you can control the T1 assault.

Every Army has a weakness. Your Army List is good.

/end thread