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 doktor_g wrote:
KMBs are Aslt 1 S8 AP2 24". 3 for 45 points

KMB's only come in threes on fragile paper units who have other functions which are completely different to that unit (burna/lootas),
KMB's have only 24" range.
KMB's don't have a blast template, and only hit on 5's and 6's.
KMB's don't have T7

KMB's are a point sink

KMB's in trios cost 75 points because you have to pay at minimum, for the two burnas or lootas.
KMB's in trios take up elites slot.

 doktor_g wrote:
What do Orks lack?????

Ranged anti Av13/14 and MCs?

These are good for what exactly? Smasha Str 5-10 twin linked on ONE turn if you buy the 3-5pt ammo runt upgrade.

Ugh. At least Taudar is dead and the heldrake now has the cone of shame.

Ammo runts are 3pts, you can see that plain as day in the image.

Compare the points of what you're shooting at. AV14 is probably a land raider, which is 250pts.

For that 250pts, you can get 7 Smasha Guns with ammo runts, or more likely a unit of 5 with a bunch of groblative wounds.

The best thing about the ammo runts (as long as they haven't changed drastically) is that you can use them selectively when you do roll the 5 or 6 necessary to do some real damage to that land raider.

The Smasha gun does raise an important point that was first seen with Flash Gitz. We look at them and assume the worst possible eventuality, so the Flash Gitz roll a 6 for their ap when shooting at some terminators, or the Smasha Gun rolls a 1 when shooting at a Predator or an Annihilation Barge. But that's not how our opponents will think. They'll be imagining the worst case scenario -for them-, namely us rolling low for the ap or high for the strength.

It doesn't particularly matter that there's a chance that won't happen, they need to prepare for the eventuality nevertheless. It is this preventative aspect that has yet to be explored. A unit of 10 Flash Gitz can create a pretty wide threat radius that the opponent will need to address and react to appropriately. Will they take the risk of potentially losing their unit of honour guard, or is there a less risky option available?

People can try to argue as much as they like that a "savvy" or "competent" opponent will know the statistics and make a reasoned decision based on that, but in the real world people don't act that way. Humans are naturally bad at statistics, we're not wired to think in those terms. It's this flaw that I think units of Gitz and Smasha Guns can exploit, since there's -just enough- of a chance for them to excel.

That being said, do people see enough AV14 all-around vehicles to make this is a particular issue? The only ones I can think of are land raiders and monoliths, and I haven't seen a monolith in ages. If it's AV13 spam you're worried about, 18pt kannons are your ridiculously cheap answer to that.

tag8833 wrote:
.

On that topic, I imagine that Lootas are looking at a serious nerf. They were too good, and GW has given us Mek Guns and Flash Gitz that fill the roles lootas filled. Everyone has Lootas. So how about we bump their price to 20 Points a model, and drop their strength to 6 maybe that will encourage the Ork players to give us all of their money.

You know it's true. I'll rage quit when some imperial knights player with his 3 model army won't let me use my Lootas as flash Gitz.... Table flip... Lol

 doktor_g wrote:
Ronin, brother, Icarus has like a 96" range Skyfire, interceptor, and is what S9 AP1 or 2? 35 points. EVERY round. Not just:
Turn 1 S5
Turn 2 S8
Turn 3 S7
charged and killed by conscripts but I know that next turn it was gonna be a S9 or 10!

lol, if your gunline is charged by guardsmen, then you have bigger issues in the game. Icarus can be charged as well.

The Icarus is 85 points minimum. It is also AP2. The smasha can still outperform it if you roll well.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

For that 250pts, you can get 7 Smasha Guns with ammo runts, or more likely a unit of 5 with a bunch of groblative wounds.

Here we go, i shoot 7 smasha guns 5 times at a landraider. statiscally I will not do more than a few glances.
I don't think the Smasha is designed to go after av14

Best consider it as a ST7 gun with AP1. Call it a "strong" Loota with half the shots.

DrD,
Agreed. The "threat" of a bunch of mid/backfield sniveling low-point Grots shooting at your deep striking command squad, or tourox (or whatever that thing is) might make you reconsider it's deep striking location. So using them for mind games... Hmmm. That is a level of generalship I don't expect to ever achieve.
DrG

I'll still be more likely to just rip it a new one with a PK, old-school ork style...

I think the ork artillery will see more use murdering light vehicles like rhinos, chimera et al.

Icarus fire can dent a LR, and may even kill it, but 5 turns of BS 1 icarus fire probably won't.

My maths could be way off here but I believe there is an impressive 2.7% chance of one shotting assuming you hit the Landraider with the Icarus, so not exactly something you'd bank on.

The kit puzzles me greatly. The price is horrific, especially here in NZ, but as I'm a converter it's actually a bargain as it gives me the unique bits and crew for 3 gunz. Time to start rummaging in the bits box for thingies to make more gun chassis out of, e.g. I just knew I kept that old buggy for a reason...

Well heck... Ascalam. You do have a point. Buuuut you gotta roll the Str. 50% chance you'll waste the shot on Av14.

Wait do you choose a target... THEN roll the Str? That's the way the SAG used to be I think.

 Greyhound wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

For that 250pts, you can get 7 Smasha Guns with ammo runts, or more likely a unit of 5 with a bunch of groblative wounds.

Here we go, i shoot 7 smasha guns 5 times at a landraider. statiscally I will not do more than a few glances.
I don't think the Smasha is designed to go after av14

Best consider it as a ST7 gun with AP1. Call it a "strong" Loota with half the shots.

Lootas cannot penetrate AV14. So your opinion is irrelevant.

 doktor_g wrote:
Well heck... Ascalam. You do have a point. Buuuut you gotta roll the Str. 50% chance you'll waste the shot on Av14.

Wait do you choose a target... THEN roll the Str? That's the way the SAG used to be I think.

Choose target then roll, I think.

Saturation of random fire helps offset this a bit.

I still prefer the direct Goff approach.

I WILL be using some traktor kannon though, as fliers and FMC are annoyingly common round here..

Whatever the case... I'm giving a skeptical thumbs down on all of the new guys so far. I'll have to proxy them or see them in a BR or do sme mathammer first.

My latest strategy has been banking on snak-eyes results with my SAG taking out the dread knights or Revnant Titan that were about squish my big Mek. Teehee.

Snake eyes bad. Big Mek go boom... hilarious as a suicide charge though.

Took out Lukas and his unit that way once, plus a baneblade...

Double 6's good

Unless they upped and changed it on me again...

Wanders off muttering about young whippersnappers....

Why not take an aegis, lascannon, *and* big guns?

Still not enuff dakka...

i knew lootas would get nerfed, but we now need the burnas buffed!!

the trakktor kannon is very sweet, actually they all are, but the bubble gun seems to be the runt of the group.

if the rumors about stormboyz being able to assault fliers is true... death TO the skies!! man i just want this freaking codex to come out already!!!

Seriously. It's foolish to go models before codex with Orks. Most ork fans have been accumulating any model we could find since 2006. I'm not budging until I have that stupid book. Ugh. Is there even a date set?

 44Ronin wrote:

Lootas cannot penetrate AV14. So your opinion is irrelevant.

smasha can't penetrate AV14 97.22% of the time so I don't think it's much better.

A smasha gun is 30pts compared to 250pts of landraider, you can have considerablely more smasha guns which will glance and even pen it whilst the raider has to deal with 32 toughness 7 wounds

@Ascalam.... Snake eyes is great when the 2 dread knights are closing in for a charge and the Shok Attak Gun implodes leaving a 6" dome of crackling unreality in its place sucking the two dread knights (or Revnant) in with it! It's AWESOME! You got slay the warlord? Ok I got slay The Lord of war!

double post

 doktor_g wrote:
@Ascalam.... Snake eyes is great when the 2 dread knights are closing in for a charge and the Shok Attak Gun implodes leaving a 6" dome of crackling unreality in its place sucking the two dread knights (or Revnant) in with it! It's AWESOME! You got slay the warlord? Ok I got slay The Lord of war!

Troo nuff dat!

Worth it for the WTF!! look on your opponent's face...

 doktor_g wrote:
@Ascalam.... Snake eyes is great when the 2 dread knights are closing in for a charge and the Shok Attak Gun implodes leaving a 6" dome of crackling unreality in its place sucking the two dread knights (or Revnant) in with it! It's AWESOME! You got slay the warlord? Ok I got slay The Lord of war!

Super heavies/Gargantuan Monsters just lose d3 wounds/hull points when they would be removed from play.

 Ascalam wrote:
I'll still be more likely to just rip it a new one with a PK, old-school ork style...

I think the ork artillery will see more use murdering light vehicles like rhinos, chimera et al.

Icarus fire can dent a LR, and may even kill it, but 5 turns of BS 1 icarus fire probably won't.

QFT. With Mek Gunz, now AV12/13 vehicles are no longer a threat to Ork players.
Then, you have the choice of finishing off AV14 models with PK.
I really like those gunz, and with the possibility of having easily 6 Heavy Support slots makes it a winner.

I'm wondering if buying 5 boxes and kitbashing the gunz is the way to go. Far too expensive option, but dead killy...

Hope these weapons can also go on battlewagons and looted wagons *starts praying to mork*

deffrekka wrote:
Hope these weapons can also go on battlewagons and looted wagons *starts praying to mork*

that would be freaking amazing!!!

but I'm honestly getting worried about these white dwarf releases. i hope we're not getting the dakkajet treatment. we haven't had any confirmation about a new codex release date, or even a codex at all. its all still rumors.

for the people that are complaining that some people are making "apologies" for the pricing. You could also just scratch build the whole artillery battery and save yourself even more money. now the grots is something you don't have that much leeway about but otherwise..

Isn't that what orks is being about? converting or personalizing your force over all? Well at least that's the reason i bought into orks back in 98. I just remember asking the gw employee are there any models for all the options or types of infantry the orks get. he just said well thats the fun of orks you can convert just about everything from one box.

I would hate to see an era where every ork force looks exactly the same. I know with the ork dex coming out you will have people who band wagon and claim they have always liked orks but do zero customizing or add any character to their force.

The gunz are good, tho as many others I would have loved more wonky, old-skool rules. At that price, however, I can't see myself ever buying a full battery. Maybe 1 box to use as a template and scratch build the rest.

My only real complaint with the mek guns is that when I heard the name, I expected a battery of SAGs.

Suppose I can make one using unbound or hilarious quantity of detachments, but still...