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I'm talking more about in the game than in the fluff or backstory,
What army do you think is overall the greatest? And which one do you think is the worst?

This may be a bit of a bias answer, seeing as I adore them, but I think Nids are the most powerful, versatile army in the game-
You can swamp the enemy with ridiculous amounts of gaunts, weak but still surprisingly good units, and there are also tough elite troops like warriors, who are powerful at range and close combat, and can take a lot of damage with 3 wounds. Tervigons can realistically pump out an unlimited supply of Termagaunts, and their ability in melee with units such as Raveners, Fexes and Trygons is almost unmatched.

The worst army (In my opinion)?
Eldar. In my experience they are just target practice (Or a light snack). Their troops are cheap yes, but weak and often don't last after getting out of whatever transport they are in, which are very easy to break. Their psychic units are limited and costly. Their Wraithlords are good at first but fall prey to poison weapons, and they have limited elite choices.

This is all my opinion only.

What about you???

IG wins in my list, followed by SW and BA. Necrons and the current DH get the worst army prize.

Best, if taken in a total vacuum (disregarding player skill) is probably IG. It's difficult to make a bad list with them.

Worst, again taken in a vacuum is either Necrons or Witchhunters.

From what I have seen, Imperial Guard are the best.

Worst: Necrons

On the strong side: Dark Eldar, Space Marines (pretty much all chapters), Orks

Middle: Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids

On the weak side: Daemon Hunters, Eldar

bucheonman wrote:From what I have seen, Imperial Guard are the best.

Worst: Necrons

On the strong side: Dark Eldar, Space Marines (pretty much all chapters), Orks

Middle: Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids

On the weak side: Daemon Hunters, Eldar

I agree with this except I would have put Eldar in the Middle tier. Necrons really need an update.

From what I have seen, Imperial Guard are the best.

Worst: Necrons

On the strong side: Dark Eldar, Space Marines (pretty much all chapters), Orks

Middle: Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids

On the weak side: Daemon Hunters, Eldar

Il agree with candle on this one.
Eldar should be moved up a tier.
Also, nids IMO would be between strong and mid.

Clearly there's some bad Eldar players out there.

My firend is devastating withthem- anyone been bladestormed to death recently?

Although I think there guardians are terribel and their aspect units are pricy, I think they get some of the best vehcles in the game

worst army is probably daemon hunters (unless actualllu fighting daemons lol)

Orks and guard have tghe best armies, i tink btsh

davij, we are going with basics here.
There is no way to work out how every player works with an army.

So, this is all worked on an average.


I can see where your comming from, dont get me wrong.
Ive had alot of rough games against them due to constant doom and lasers, but at the end of the day, thats just a single player, not the average of an army.

This is what I think:

Best: Imperial Guard

Worst: Witch Hunters

I've never seen a Guard Army lose.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:davij, we are going with basics here.
There is no way to work out how every player works with an army.

So, this is all worked on an average.

I can see where your comming from, dont get me wrong.
Ive had alot of rough games against them due to constant doom and lasers, but at the end of the day, thats just a single player, not the average of an army.

I guess that my firends a regular tournament goer makes him a slight notch above the average player!

Eldar aren't a good beggnner army, IMHO, but I think it all comes down to experience, with most games, all armies have tgheir s&w's but I don't thnk there really is a "strongest army", I play Guard and I've beenby cut to pieces by tau, eldar and even necons once I've seen a few brutal witch hunter armies for example (do not get in a fight with penitent engines and flagellants!).

Daemon hunters are at a large disadvantage cos there only really meant to be fighting daemons with...

I've never played IG, but I am aware they are really good.
As for Necrons, I can agree that they are weak.

DrownedRat117 wrote:"Stuff"

That post really made me laugh... lets break it down...

DrownedRat117 wrote:I'm talking more about in the game than in the fluff or backstory,
What army do you think is overall the greatest? And which one do you think is the worst?

Good so far, a decent question.

DrownedRat117 wrote:This may be a bit of a bias answer seeing as I adore them

After reading the post thats plain to see.

DrownedRat117 wrote:I think Nids are the most powerful, versatile army in the game-

Really? i mean... REALLY? Nids are one of the worst codexs IMO, most decent units are stuck in the elite slots. There are some very powerful builds in the codex but hardly any players i see writing lists have cottened onto a decent list synergy.

DrownedRat117 wrote:You can swamp the enemy with ridiculous amounts of gaunts, weak but still surprisingly good units, and there are also tough elite troops like warriors, who are powerful at range and close combat, and can take a lot of damage with 3 wounds. Tervigons can realistically pump out an unlimited supply of Termagaunts, and their ability in melee with units such as Raveners, Fexes and Trygons is almost unmatched.

- Gaunts by themselves arn't good.
- Warriors arn't tough.
- Warriors arn't powerful.
- Warriors cannot take alot of damage, 1 S8 shot per warrior.
- Tervigons can "realistically pump out an unlimited supply"... hardly. You should run out in most games if your spawning every turn, and when KP games roll around i doubt you'd want to spawn at all.
- Fexes are horrible compared to how they were before
- Trygons/Mawlocs on paper seem good, i wouldn't know, none of them have ever reached combat and their shooting attacks have never seemed to do much.

DrownedRat117 wrote:The worst army (In my opinion)?
Eldar. In my experience they are just target practice (Or a light snack).

You've been playing some very bad Eldar players.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Their troops are cheap

Cheap? Eldar are renowned for having expensive units. How can you possibly think of them as cheap? Guardians + a decent platform can average each guardian out at 10 points. A DA unit built to cause damage can average out at 15/16 each. Jetbikes + pathfinders are over 20 each... and then theirs wraithguard, whos points cost is depressing.

DrownedRat117 wrote:...but weak and often don't last after getting out of whatever transport they are in

I'll give you that... Unless its a seer council.

DrownedRat117 wrote:which are very easy to break.

i'll fortune my Falcons with holo-fields then move it flat-out to contest your objectives in the last turns and see how easy they are to break then.
Eldar transports are arguably the best transports in the game, and AV12 is alot better than most armies having AV10/11 (altho price and speed is another issue)
Then throw in the anti-melta/ordanance fields and reducing shooting attacks to S8.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Their psychic units are limited and costly.

Costly... depends how you build them. Limited... hardly. Theres only a few things they can do, but they can make anything in the army perform better.

DrownedRat117 wrote:Their Wraithlords are good at first but fall prey to poison weapons

Poison is a problem, but its a problem for any high T creature.

DrownedRat117 wrote:they have limited elite choices.

Last time i saw they had 3 like everyone else...
And more than 3 possible choices, so not sure how thats limited.

DrownedRat117 wrote:What about you???

Best being Eldar... Worst being Nids...
Mostly because of simply how mis-informed and wrong that post was...

/rant

Best - Guard, hands down. The sheer amount of hurt they can put out while having enough targets to soak your enemies fire is rediculous

Worst - Daemon hunter. Too costly for not enough effect.
2nd worst (GK will be out soon) - Necrons, they just lack everything except survivability.

Eldar are beast if they're well used. They're a precision army that requires a lot of skill to use well. You've probably just played against bad players who try using them like Space Marines.

Necrons are by far the worst army available. Limited model range, few options, and a rule that makes them automatically lose if you take too much "fun stuff" and not enough standard troops. Tau will crumple if you get into close combat, but at least they can run away from certain defeat by flying off in a Devilfish. It might mean certain death for that unit, but at least their entire army doesn't vanish off the table.

IG at the top just because of the sheer amount of stuff you can do with their codex. There is no one single build that you must run to be competitive...there and tens of builds that can kick ass.

My bottom most codex? Hmmm.... like everyone else, probably Necrons. They're in dire need of an update like Dark Eldar were, and they're just way too limited. Forge World is starting to rectify that issue, but they've got a long way to go.

Well, taken in a vacuum, disregarding player skill and assuming a varied match-up, I would sort the codex's into 3 levels of effectiveness.

Level 1: A distinct advantage to play, assuming moderate competence.

Guard: Large volumes of shooting and/or armour. The codex has probably the largest variety of builds in the game.

Space Wolves: Comparatively cheap troops with no real weaknesses, awesome psykers and Psychic defence. Cheap, good fire support and the ability to form truly scary Deathstars.

Level 2: Good Codex's. Variety of strong builds, but not hugely broken.

Blood Angels: Codex Marines that are good in assault, have fast vehicles, and can form scary deathstars. Some rediculous units.

Orks: Can do one thing insanely well, and have a variety of 1-things to choose from.

Dark Eldar: Brutal, fast, and flexible. Limited by being extremely fragile.

Level 3: Either a variety of unamazing builds, or a limited selection of strong builds.

Tyranids: Flexible and varied, there are a number of hard-counters out there for anyone looking for them.

Eldar: capable of making good lists, but I have only really seen one list that is really competetive. X units of Dire Avengers in Serpents, Farseer, Max Fire Dragons. Avoid combat for as long as possible.

Codex Space marines: Very versatile, but outclassed by the other Marines dex's (Wolves and Blood).

Chaos Space Marines: Capable, but starved of Options. Only a couple competative builds, and lots of useless units.

Dark Angels: Mostly Inferior to Codex Marines, but have the Deathwing.

Level 4: Weak, but still capable of pulling off victory.

Tau: Horrible, Horrible close combat. Capable of mauling anyone foolish enough to let themselves get shot at.

Chaos Demons: To random to really be competetive, their advantages are fairly easily countered.

Level Five: Unthreatening

Necrons: Poor initiative leaves them vulnerable to any decent CC unit, Phase out. The only unit that scares me is the monolith, which can simply be ignored.

Demon Hunters: Expensive and lacking in anti-tank.

Eldar are really the most player-reliant army in the game. They can be in any tier depending on the skill of the player. They can be tabled by turn 2, or they can table the opponent by turn 2. I know someone who's been playing Eldar since early 3rd edition and he can destroy me, regardless of army.

Maybe I have yet to see Eldar played by a skilled player. I have seen nothing out of them that makes me fear them. I was skunking an Eldar guy on Vassal last week before he had to go. The models are overpriced, and while having a lot of nifty abilities, die fairly easily.

Nids, mid-strong? I could agree with that. As I said in another thread, in the hands of a very skilled player, one of the best. It takes a totally different mindset to play well than other armies.

Oh yeah. Tau in mid-low.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

From what I have seen, Imperial Guard are the best.

Worst: Necrons

On the strong side: Dark Eldar, Space Marines (pretty much all chapters), Orks

Middle: Chaos Marines, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids

On the weak side: Daemon Hunters, Eldar

Il agree with candle on this one.
Eldar should be moved up a tier.
Also, nids IMO would be between strong and mid.

In my local area the two most successfull armies are my Eldar, and one of my friends Dark Eldar.
However, everyone else we see playing Eldar of either variety performs rather badly... so player skill is a large factor in both of these forces, as they are IMO the two most unforgiving armies in the game where your chance of success relies on how well you deploy (which is why alot of Eldar/DE players seem to favour the reserve tactic, possibly) and how well you can forsee the outcome of the first few turns.

Of course army composition comes into it, but when i get bored and run "sup-par" units like hawks and guardians and still pull of a convincing win i think it makes it clear that copy+paste tournament lists arn't always better simply because they come from a "higher tier" army.

Player skill is infinitely more important than the codex the player is using.

Best or worst can also depend on what particular aspect of the codex you're talking about. Some codexes utterly dominate in power, but are really unfluffy and have some things that contradict fluff altogether. Other codexes are really fluffy, but are little more than lip service as they are not that competitive.

Guard are number one. So easy, a caveman can do it.

Lowest is probably necrons, sadly. I do think they are viable to play still, just not against some armies.

Dashofpepper wrote:Player skill is infinitely more important than the codex the player is using.

Word. This is why, although 'Nids are only mid-level, they are the feared army in my local area.

RaptorsTallon wrote:This is what I think:

Best: Imperial Guard

Worst: Witch Hunters

I've never seen a Guard Army lose.

I take it you don't read White Dwarf then? IG never win a game in WD.

I think IG and BA are just about equal, maybe a slight edge to the IG.

Worst Necrons fo sho. I have never seen a DH army in action, but just by looking at their dex I can see they have problems. Dunno if they're worse than Necrons, because like I said, haven't seen em in action.