white scars army

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**dmthomas7**

I'm brand new to 40k and am slowly building a White Scars army. WHile looking through various articles I've read alot about troops to use and not to use however I'm still not sure what exactly i can and cannot use. I believe I've read something about not being able to use dreadnaughts and devastator squads. Also wanted to confirm that every troop must ride into to battle using bikes, rhinos and drop pods with troops also being able to use jump packs instead. any help or suggestions would be great.

**MechaEmperor7000**

First off, you are probably reading advice from the 4th edition. If you have not done so yet, go buy the codex and a rulebook (preferably the Assault on Black Reach starter set, as it has a substantial amount of marines, Terminators, and a Dreadnought, and it's only marginally more expensive than the hardback Rulebook).

There are two types of White Scar players (as with any themed army), those that prefer to stick to the fluff and take only units that white scars would use in fluff, and those that just fulfill the basic requirements, but use whatever they can to balance out their lists.

In general, a White Scars list benefit from having bikes. You need to take two squads of 10, as well as somehow get a Kor'sarro Khan model on a Bike (there is no available model, so you should convert one). That's going down the fluffy route. If you decide to go with just a white scar-colored army, then look up generic SM tactica and it should be fine.

**flamingwalnut**

White Scars follow a very fast moving, hit and run kind of style of army. So, yes, bikes are the first and most common aspect on the list. And Khan from Codex: Space Marines IS a White Scar, so he's obviously viable. Run him on a Bike and you have Bikes are troops! But Bikes aren't the hands down absolute White Scars thing, IMO. Tactical squads Rhinos are great (Maybe even not having a Heavy Weapon...maybe) So are Predators (without Sponsons so you don't have to stand around in one place to fire everything) as well as Land Raiders and Vindicators. Land Speeders are a must. Basically keep your marines from standing still and you'll have their style basics down.

Oh, and White is a pain to paint, so I hear, so...good luck!

**MechaEmperor7000**

Note that the entire army gets outflanking if you have Kor'sarro Khan. This further reinforces the fact that you have to keep moving. Khan himself is like a close combat counterpart to Wazdakka (who is an absolute shooty beast on a bike), further emphasising the fact you need to close the distance asap.

**dmthomas7**

thanks for everything so far i have already picked up a small force all the marines without the dreadnaught in the black reach set. Already starting my paint on them and i'm satisfied so far with them being my first time around. i'm going to play a WS strict army at least as my plan. a friend of mine suggested getting dark angels raven wing battle force and converting them over for White Scars.

**Brother SRM**

dmthomas7 wrote:thanks for everything so far i have already picked up a small force all the marines without the dreadnaught in the black reach set. Already starting my paint on them and i'm satisfied so far with them being my first time around. i'm going to play a WS strict army at least as my plan. a friend of mine suggested getting dark angels raven wing battle force and converting them over for White Scars.

Ravenwing battleforces are excellent bargains for bikers. Get one of those and just don't put on the more obvious Dark Angels bits and you're good to go!

**dmthomas7**

probably will go with the raven wing force. I kno i willl want to pick up kor'sarro khan not so certain bout trying to put him on moondrakken though seems like rather advanced worked not sure i wanna try it

**MechaEmperor7000**

If you dont put Kor'sarro Khan on Moondrakken then Bikes will not be a troop choice, so keep that in mind (although if you ahve two tactical squads, you should be fine). However Moondrakken really enhances Khan's abilities. Look around for some conversion ideas. It looks to me that his cloak is not one piece to his body, or at least is not attached to his body other than at the back, so cuting him in half at the waist should be easy. Glue him to the normal SM biker legs, then just bend his cloak so that the entire thing will fit on the bike.

Alternatively, just use the White Scars Bike Squad's Sarge. He looks almost exactly like Khan, just needs a cloak (some gs fur tutorials are floating around).

**Commander Endova**

Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with Khan. The problem with lots of outflanking units, or any reserve-dependent armies, is that without some way of modifying the reserve roll, (be it a +1 or a re-roll or something) your army will end up coming in piecemeal more often than not. This make it very easy for the enemy to deal with you.

Instead, go with a standard Captain on a bike (using this guy to make him stand out. Bikes rely on mobility and shooting, not protracted close combat. However, it is inevitable that you will get in CC. Having the ability to voluntarily try to leave a particularly nasty assaults (default Chapter Tactics) is more beneficial than outflankers that may never arrive.

**Augustus**

Commander Endova wrote:Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with Khan. The problem ...your army will end up coming in piecemeal more often than not... (default Chapter Tactics) is more beneficial than outflankers that may never arrive.

EXACTLY! Thats the best advice here! I built a massive fluff white scars all bike army and it saw significant challenges! I'd like to ad that outflank is really worthless with bikes that turbo boost and move 12 anyway. It's pointless when you can just setup and drive over there on T1, because outflank ensures you lose AT LEAST 1 turn.

This was my Khan:

He was fun to play but very underpowered compared to our other Bike Captains with Stormshields and Relic blades! Which are much more capable.

On that note, combat tactics and voluntary fallback is awesome with bikes, it's almost as good as hit and run because bikes tend to move far enough away to auto rally when they escape after a voluntary fallback and then they can charge again, or leave with turboboost etc.

To answer:

dmthomas7 wrote:confirm that every troop must ride into to battle using bikes

No, not required, you can play a White Scars army and take NO BIKES! If you want, they are a codex or standartd chapter actually, Essentially no different than Ultramarines, composition and structure wise.

dmthomas7 wrote:...troops also being able to use jump packs instead.

Yes, they also have all those units, like all the codex chapters.

dmthomas7 wrote:any help or suggestions would be great.

Build a single 9 model strong bike squad, put meltas in it and a combimelta sarge, with an attack bike with multimelta also!

Build the rest of your army from regular marine units that are good, there are many, see the forums for some ideas. Thunderhammer Terminators come to mind. Landspeeders are a nice pair. Drop pod squads (just one) are pretty good...

Resist the urge to play ALL bikes.

Don't bother with Khan.

Play a regular bike captain (+1) to make your bike unit score.

Combat squad the 10 man bike unit into 2 for objective games.

Always put the bike captain in the bike squad.

Consider a Librarian on a bike as well with Gate, he can really move the bikes around fast, couple this with pod teleport homers and the unit is very capable. Even able to leave melees!

Check out my gallery for some more images if you liked the first.

Good luck.

**dmthomas7**

thanks for the help. couple more questions though
first with out Khan is it still technically a white scars army or just a batch of space marines that happen to be painted white and red with alot of bike support

also back to dreadnaughts do they make sense in a scars army. Ive read they wouldnt be used sense they can't keep up.

**Commander Endova**

If you paint them like White Scars, fit the theme (pretty much just stay away from Dreadnoughts) and say they're White Scars, then no one can tell you you aren't playing them. Kor'sarro Khan is one of 10 captains the White Scars have. If you take a generic captain on a bike, paint him white, and name him Bur'itto Khan, you can easily claim that he's one of the other nine, who has a different fighting style that just happens to be more similar to the default chapter tactics.

Ultimately, they're your minis, and no one else can tell you what they are.

To be more specific about Dreadnoughts, White Scars don't really employ them. Firstly, as you said, they have trouble keeping up with other, more mobile, units. Secondly, the ultimate pleasure for a White Scar is to ride across the plains of Chogoris and feel the wind on his skin. To be trapped in the confines of a sarcophagus would be torture for one of them.

**Asrodrig**

I also have a White Scars force. I usually take a Captain on a Bike, a Librarian (although the White Scars call them Stormseers) also on a bike, a couple units of Bike Squads, some Tactical Marines, and some Predators as well. There's really nothing to restrict you from taking anything you want. Of course, the fluff nazis will say you shouldn't take Dreadnoughts, but if you really wanted to take one, there's no rule that says you can't. I suggest picking up two of the Ravenwing Battleforce - that will give you a dozen or so bikes for troops and also for converting into a Captain to lead your force, plus a pair of Landspeeders and a pair of Attack Bikes as well. You can then add other units as you see fit.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I would still suggest Khan, since he is still better than a normal captain on bike, and you dont HAVE to outflank with your entire army, only a few to grab objectives. A Bike Captain is more preferable if you do not want to sink points into your HQs.

**Augustus**

Dreads keep up just fine when they come in pods.

EDIT: You know, one would think the white scars would like Stormravens? Could be an easy way for them to move dreadnoughts around. A counts as Blood angels codex with a white paint job might be pretty cool. I wonder...

**MechaEmperor7000**

Assault marines as troops wouldnt be as fluffy though, White scars are fast, but they rely mostly on bikes. Raven Guard would be better for BAs.

However I dont see why Dreadnoughts would be unfluffy. Every chapter has them. As long as the OP doesnt use the Master of the Forge to gain additional Dreadnoughts, there's nothing wrong.

**Augustus**

Sure I just wouldnt build any (jump pack guy troops), but say an army that looked like this:

CPT BIKE

STROMRAVEN
DREAD
TAC

STROMRAVEN
DREAD
TAC

10 BIKE SQUAD

Built out of the BA codex and painted white would be cool!

**dmthomas7**

definatly sounds like great advice as of now I'm probly jus gonna buy a few more of my buddy's spare standard marines to maybe give me 2 squads of ten marines and a 5 man squad of termies

**MechaEmperor7000**

I question the usefulness of 10 tact marines in a Storm Raven...

**Scott-S6**

The White Scars section of Index Astartes I says that they have no Dread's and no Devestators. Armour is limited and is modified to make it fast enough to keep up. Other than that, they have everything that a regular chapter has.

The two options that jump out are:

C:SM army with bikes as troops, scout bikers, land speeders - a very fast recon force.
C:BA army with mounted tacticals and assault squads as troops supported by fast armour - a fast strike force.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Assault marines as troops wouldnt be as fluffy though, White scars are fast, but they rely mostly on bikes. Raven Guard would be better for BAs.
However I dont see why Dreadnoughts would be unfluffy. Every chapter has them. As long as the OP doesnt use the Master of the Forge to gain additional Dreadnoughts, there's nothing wrong.

They have plenty of tactical and assault squads, they are not all bikes.

And the fluff says that they have no dreads at all. "Dreadnoughts are not employed by the White Scars as the cold metal sarcophagi of these mighty constructions evokes a horror of eternal confinement that goes against the White Scar's philosophy that when a warrior dies, his soul should be free to travel to the afterlife".

**MechaEmperor7000**

Touche on the Dreads part. However White Scars are bike-centric. Going with assault squads and the BA dex will definately have people cry cheese.

**Scott-S6**

They have tanks which are "stripped down versions that can keep up with the rest of the army". Sound like BA fast tanks to me.

"The remainder of the chapter is organised slightly differently to most codex chapters, due to the higher proportion of bike squads and land speeder squadrons."

"The elite bike squads are rightly feared and Assault squads dropping from the skies on trails of fire and attacking with howling bloodlust are a terrifying sight with their fearsome scarred faces."

White Scars have more bikes than usual. They still have tactical squads, assault squads, etc. The only units that they expressly do not use are devastators and dreads. Assault squads and fast tanks is 100% fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Going with assault squads and the BA dex will definately have people cry cheese.

Why would painting them white make the army cheesy?

**Doctor Optimal**

Scott-S6 wrote:
Why would painting them white make the army cheesy?

White cheddar?

**Scott-S6**

Doctor Optimal wrote:
Scott-S6 wrote:Why would painting them white make the army cheesy?

White cheddar?

White whine.

There's always someone ready to complain because your army doesn't fit their idea of the fluff, regardless of what the fluff actually says.

**Augustus**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:...White Scars are bike-centric. Going with assault squads and the BA dex will definately have people cry cheese.

Nah, just Canadians!

Dreads are in the rules, use em if you want too.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Scott-S6 wrote:They have tanks which are "stripped down versions that can keep up with the rest of the army". Sound like BA fast tanks to me.

"The remainder of the chapter is organised slightly differently to most codex chapters, due to the higher proportion of bike squads and land speeder squadrons."

"The elite bike squads are rightly feared and Assault squads dropping from the skies on trails of fire and attacking with howling bloodlust are a terrifying sight with their fearsome scarred faces."

White Scars have more bikes than usual. They still have tactical squads, assault squads, etc. The only units that they expressly do not use are devastators and dreads. Assault squads and fast tanks is 100% fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Going with assault squads and the BA dex will definately have people cry cheese.

Why would painting them white make the army cheesy?

You just said they have more bikes than usual. Going with BAs using Jump Packs to say "oh they're just as fast, but I'm going to use Mephiston as the Chief Stormcaller and Sang Guard because they all can fly is fluffy" will definately have cheese spread all over the place, white cheddar and marble too

Going by your logic, it's entirely fluffy to field a Imperial Fist army all on bikes, Salamanders with only assault squads and no meltas, Ravenguard entirely with devastator squads, and Space Wolves with only scouts. *Technically* they have all of this. Fluff wise, which is more proportionally higher and likely to show up in an engagement?

**Augustus**

Maybe you should check out the article on a great white scars army and see wha'ts actually in some?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Ian%27s_White_Scar/Marine_Army

Like these?

or these:

Heavy Support

* 5 x Devastators (2 Lascannons, 2 Missile Launchers)
* 5 x Devastators (4 Heavy Bolters)

**MechaEmperor7000**

That's perhaps the best advice I've heard all day.

However I still stand by the thought that any White Scars army should have bikes as the main focus of their armies.

**Scott-S6**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:You just said they have more bikes than usual. Going with BAs using Jump Packs to say "oh they're just as fast, but I'm going to use Mephiston as the Chief Stormcaller and Sang Guard because they all can fly is fluffy" will definately have cheese spread all over the place, white cheddar and marble too :

Hmm, we have a chapter famous for their bikes, assault squads, land speeders and fast tanks. Which codex has all of that....

**MechaEmperor7000**

BAs are famous for their bikes and landspeeders? You sure a certain white robed, black armored dude isnt going to question you?

Plus, if you want to go fluffy, the Vanilla dex has, you know, an actual White Scars character, who gives you their CHAPTER TACTICS. Seems kinda pointless for them to give up their CHAPTER TACTICS to proxy as the latest bandwagon dex.