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Well I'm here today with a simple but problematic question.

"How should one, play a Space Marine ?"

I'm a Game Master that is playing with a couple of seasoned WH40K veterans who have a somewhat strict vision of what is Warhammer 40.000 especially for what regards Marines. They base much of what they do on the background done for the tabletop, this means that they are eager to get in action and everything that differs from "normal 40k behavior" is to be jugded with suspect and mistrust... perhaps even with a bullet.

Yesterday we had the start of a new mission, where a Rogue Trader pulled some strings in an effort to receive help from the Deathwatch to recover a member of the Ministorum who came with him to explore a world where a group of Human beings were discovered. These humans did not even remember the existance of the Emperor and probably they never knew that, possibly because they were from the golden age of Humanity. This civilization is blocked in the middle ages due to religious belifes.

The squad accepts to help the Rogue Trader, and follows him on the planet while he's trying to receive the authorization to get inside the "forbidden zone" where the Ministorum NPC dissapeared. The King, wanted to knew if the Deathwatch PGs could be trusted and wanted them to destroy a creature that, from centuries, attacks the population.

The group disagrees, and one of them (Ultramarine and group leader for the mission) loads the Bolter, saying that they do not have to proof anything to him. The Rogue Trader lean to him and whisper that he suggests to keep a smoother and nice approach since the orders from the Ministorum asked to avoid (if possible) the use of force to assimilate the planet inside the Imperium. Another charachter (Blood Angel) was disgusted with this kind of approach and secretly desidered to kill the Rogue Trader, seeing him as a traitor.

The King asked then once again to give him proof of their capacity, to proof that they were the warriors wich the legends spoke of... and he asked it a bit roughly. The Ultramarine got angry, and shouted that the King was NOTHING and just a serf of the God Emperor of Mankind, remarking that they didn't had to proof anything to him, then turned around and got outside.


I was a bit... shocked. I do understand that Marines should be played strict, but this is maybe a bit too much. From my point of view, the way they are playing is too much "by the book", closing many opportunities of adventures and role play. I can go on and on and on righting military operations and battles, but frome time to time I wanted to place some ways to see them decide what to do to ponderate what was good and what wasn't, to decide what "evil" was less problematic.
But playing like this, confines my possibilities as a master, reducing everything to a "killing bonanza" adventures and the Marines as mindless armor dudes with big guns.

Is it just me ? Am I asking too much from the WH40K Setting because I've been tainted too much from the Black Library's Books ? I'd like to know your opinion on the matter.


P.s. = just to point it out, the players are GOOD ones. On D&D and other RPGs they did good charachters with interpretation etc, so playing like this is not their habit.

They are playing a strict interpetation of these types of marines... "trust no one"... I say you roll with it so they learn their lesson when they aren't awarded renown or requisition... let their over zealous violent game play guide the adventure use that predictable behaviour to lead them into plot traps... to the point where they need to learn how much better things go when they don't blow it all up.

Alternatively you could just let them play it out in a war zone where they can fight to their hearts content... placing an emphasis on their mission planning and adapting to the changing landscape of the battlefield.

So they failed there mission, and fast. Make sure they know it, a big speech on how they failed to complete the job should help. They are Deathwatch now, a arm of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition not the other way around. Plus some see the Deathwatch as a place to regain there lost honor, so maybe the fact the Deathwatch means they DO have something to prove. And maybe remind them Rouge Traders answer only to the High Lord of Terra and the Emperor himself, NO Deathwatch member can say that.

You know what give them the book and let them read it, SM aren't all that in the big picture. In the TT game sure there billed as the highest place in the IoM, but thats only becouse the ones with real power don't fight on the field of battle. Thats for underling like........ SM.

aka_mythos wrote:They are playing a strict interpetation of these types of marines... "trust no one"... I say you roll with it so they learn their lesson when they aren't awarded renown or requisition... let their over zealous violent game play guide the adventure use that predictable behaviour to lead them into plot traps... to the point where they need to learn how much better things go when they don't blow it all up.

Alternatively you could just let them play it out in a war zone where they can fight to their hearts content... placing an emphasis on their mission planning and adapting to the changing landscape of the battlefield.

I was thinking something like what you've proposed initially. I don't have to frustrate them, it would be nonsense. I just have to point out that their actions have consequences even inside the Deathwatch, just because they think that being inside the Inquisition preserves from responsabilities (if they think this) well I'll proof them wrong. I wondered too to get them only missions of warfare, luckily Rites of Battles provides good ideas and requisition use to wage war in the 40k, but since we have just finished a mission where they had to control an almost routed army, I think (for a couple or more missions) to try other ways.

Noir wrote:So they failed there mission, and fast. Make sure they know it, a big speech on how they failed to complete the job should help. They are Deathwatch now, a arm of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition not the other way around. Plus some see the Deathwatch as a place to regain there lost honor, so maybe the fact the Deathwatch means they DO have something to prove. And maybe remind them Rouge Traders answer only to the High Lord of Terra and the Emperor himself, NO Deathwatch member can say that.

You know what give them the book and let them read it, SM aren't all that in the big picture. In the TT game sure there billed as the highest place in the IoM, but thats only becouse the ones with real power don't fight on the field of battle. Thats for underling like........ SM.

I know what you mean, problem is that I'm playing with people who says that Black Library books are rubbish and non canon, made just for money, with many things changed just for writing reasons. I do understand what they say and I do accept their point of view, but I also do understand that the 40k Universe IS NOT as the tabletop game wants us to belive. It has a cool background but for the tabletop it is simplified as codex fluff.

But anyway, I can make games with their point of view, that's not so difficult. As I've written to Mythos, they are going to pay for their actions, good and bad. Giving them less renown and a reprimand by the Watch Captain should be enough as a warning. The grade and type of reprimand will change depending on the mission outcome and if they will screw up something else... letting the Rogue Trader die is a good example of making them fall in deep *BIP*. Not only they will be left on the planet by the senior staff of the Rogue Trader (that took them on the planet) but they'll have to figure out some valuable excuses to the Watch Captain of their actions.

This Sunday we'll have another session, I hope it's going to be better.

By the way, thanks both of you for your impressions and hints they were much appreciated!

I know I've said this on other threads, but it seems like if I was running Deathwatch the one thing I'd really want to know about every player character is what would cause them to break from standard behavior. This could be a lot of things: a dark secret (a Space Wolf character thinks he may have made a mistake that led to other Space Marines dying on a previous mission), family (The Dark Angel has a brother that has done amazingly well in the Guard, but now there's allegations he may be up to something), a Chapter trait taken to an extreme (The Blood Angel that considers saving certain artworks even above saving Imperial citizens), etc.

The main problem is that most RPG players are used to a midnset where giving up this information makes their characters vulnerable, so it has to be stated that giving up this information is to make the game more fun for everyone. If the BA player can't think of something, then they'll never get a plotline with attendant bonus rewards.

Space Marines are, to me, a great example of the dramatic concept of 'tragedy.' The whole Imperium is, really. The Space Marines and the entire Imperium should be perfect: The Space Marines demi-god warriors for all that is good, the Imperium a happy united place where every human can fulfill his ultimate potential ruled by the benevolent, immortal emperor.

Clearly, this isn't quite true. pre-Heresy (as seen in the Horus Heresy novels) things weren't perfect. There's some sugegstions that away from the constant warfare of the crusades many places were a bit decadent, and the Mechanicum was certainly already dehumanizing, but things were improving. As worlds were brought to compliance, they the Imperium tried to recover tech and make life better. The Heresy screwed up a lot of things, and the Imperium certainly isn't getting better, and is generally getting worse. The average citizen is of little value.

The Space Marines, too, have deviated from the planned path. They're still demi-gods compared to the average Imperial citizen, but they're very definitely flawed. The Chapters fight amongst themselves. Usually, bloodless politicking and one-upsmanship, but occasionally hints of worse. They're going to act int heir own interests.

Noir wrote:So they failed there mission, and fast. Make sure they know it, a big speech on how they failed to complete the job should help. They are Deathwatch now, a arm of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition not the other way around. Plus some see the Deathwatch as a place to regain there lost honor, so maybe the fact the Deathwatch means they DO have something to prove. And maybe remind them Rouge Traders answer only to the High Lord of Terra and the Emperor himself, NO Deathwatch member can say that.

You know what give them the book and let them read it, SM aren't all that in the big picture. In the TT game sure there billed as the highest place in the IoM, but thats only becouse the ones with real power don't fight on the field of battle. Thats for underling like........ SM.

Noir wrote:So they failed there mission, and fast. Make sure they know it, a big speech on how they failed to complete the job should help. They are Deathwatch now, a arm of the Holy Orders of the Emperor's Inquisition not the other way around. Plus some see the Deathwatch as a place to regain there lost honor, so maybe the fact the Deathwatch means they DO have something to prove. And maybe remind them Rouge Traders answer only to the High Lord of Terra and the Emperor himself, NO Deathwatch member can say that.

And maybe remind them Rouge Traders answer only to the High Lord of Terra and the Emperor himself, NO Deathwatch member can say that.

Rouge Traders

She's female then? Hot.

Have more than one plot hook in mind too. If a creature has been attacking and they don't recognize the authority of the king, perhaps as they 're walking out they find "something" has attacked their ship, disabling it, and they need to work with the people to get the parts to be able to leave the planet or in more cliche fashion, they witness it attacking innocents. Just keep an open mind, as well as trying to force your player's perceptions of their characters open.

Well KOS - thats one of the best questions I have seen posted on Dakka. I hope you will allow me to try an answer it.


Life is cheap in the 40K universe and the Milky Way galaxy is effectively one big battleground.

Enter the Space Marines...mankind’s only hope of bringing light to the furthest reaches of the galaxy and beyond.

Space Marines represent the sword arm of the God-Emperor. They fight in his name to crush rebellions and wipe out civilizations, empires and entire worlds if necessary.

A Space Marine is the easiest kind of character to portray. He exercises his loyalty and patriotic duty to protect and serve the Emperor by carrying out his will at all times. And the Emperors will (should any of us forget) is to protect mankind (under totalitarian rule) while ensuring that all his subjects continue to swear allegiance onto him.

Should anything go against the grain or threaten the Emperors Will, then the objective for the Space Marine is simple: Conquer & Destroy if re-alignment is not possible.
This would be so, even if it meant inflicting the upmost brutality to prevent the enemy from rising again. Space Marines rarely take prisoners, unless ordered to do so.

Such orders anyway, are within the mandate/remit of the Imperial run-of-the-mill soldiers. Space Marines aren’t tasked with caring, or looking after prisoners!!!

But Space Marines aren't mere savages or mindless infidels –or just merely competent soldiers. No, instead they are intelligent warriors who can apply fundamental strategic and tactical thinking/concepts. These qualities allow a space marine to subvert, or manipulate some of their enemies. They are the best of the best - fighters of awesome combat ability.

Space Marines rarely make contact with human subjects of the Imperium/Holy Terra - If they do - they go by the governing of the Emperors Will.


Indeed its a difficult RPG DeathWatch is, because Space Marnes only seem to be called in, to put and end to something, that others before them probably failed in. Its not pretty.

Cobourn wrote:Well KOS - thats one of the best questions I have seen posted on Dakka.

In all of the three days you've been here? Wow! Must be an impressive question then.

Cobourn wrote:Indeed its a difficult RPG DeathWatch is, because Space Marnes only seem to be called in, to put and end to something, that others before them probably failed in. Its not pretty.

Not really. There are plenty of other reasons why the Deathwatch would do anything. The rulebook does a pretty good job of explaining them.

Coburn, I agree with what you say, but... It's all ultimately futile. The Space Marines are going to fight the good fight, but there's not a lot of hope even among them.

The Emperor is dead or dying.
The Imperium is beset within and without by aliens, heretics, etc.
The Space Marines have had half of their numbers turn to Chaos.

Space Marines are the remnants of something amazing, but there's never going to be enough to do all that is needed. They win battles, even wars, but there's always another battle, another war. So many Chapters risk distraction because of focusing on other concerns... Those Dark Angels keep randomly interrogating people,. sometimes dragging them off, and may even side-track a mission to do so! The Ultramarines probably look like they're busier building their own empire than dealing with 'real problems' to some other Chapters.

In the 'modern' 40k setting, event he Emperor's mightiest warriors are unlikely to show trust between chapters. A Deathwatch team has to balance this distrust with the mission that must be accomplished to give the Imperium another day to maybe get itself together.

I love you HBMC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You touched upon an important point there Balance.
I am in the process of posting a subject that will interest you and others very soon. You will have to let me know what you think.

Who knows, maybe H.B.M.C. might be a little supportive on any future post I make. Somehow, I think he feels threatened by me joining the Drakka crowd, because he has been an utter wind bag since the moment I landed.

Balance wrote:I know I've said this on other threads, but it seems like if I was running Deathwatch the one thing I'd really want to know about every player character is what would cause them to break from standard behavior. This could be a lot of things: a dark secret (a Space Wolf character thinks he may have made a mistake that led to other Space Marines dying on a previous mission), family (The Dark Angel has a brother that has done amazingly well in the Guard, but now there's allegations he may be up to something), a Chapter trait taken to an extreme (The Blood Angel that considers saving certain artworks even above saving Imperial citizens), etc.

The main problem is that most RPG players are used to a midnset where giving up this information makes their characters vulnerable, so it has to be stated that giving up this information is to make the game more fun for everyone. If the BA player can't think of something, then they'll never get a plotline with attendant bonus rewards.

I know what you mean. I understand it and support it because I've managed to get inside this new "way of playing" thanks to indie RPGs, but they are not in this kind of mentality. They are really... really stricted to D&D classic behaviour "my story is mine and I won't tell anyone 'till it's needed". I had some discussions before about indie systems and theories... if they dislike them because they don't want to make the true big step, I'm not going to be the one forcing them.... even if they still play in a interesting way. They are good role players, they do not cheat, they don't give problems nor take grudges if you kill their PG... but while they focus more on a traditional way of playing (Mr.Dungeoun Master please do everything, we just have to play and not giving you hints of what we'd love to see) they indeed give hints about what they'd love to see.

Part of the first set of missions were plotted just to start the game, to give a good kick start to the story, but then I've made changes following what they liked and desired to see inside the story. They don't realize that when someone make theories in game, he is saying basically that he would love to have that thing coming up sooner or later. So... instead of trying to convince me within the lines of a conversation why don't you tell me straight ? Wonders of the mind I think.

Space Marines are, to me, a great example of the dramatic concept of 'tragedy.' The whole Imperium is, really. The Space Marines and the entire Imperium should be perfect: The Space Marines demi-god warriors for all that is good, the Imperium a happy united place where every human can fulfill his ultimate potential ruled by the benevolent, immortal emperor.

Clearly, this isn't quite true. pre-Heresy (as seen in the Horus Heresy novels) things weren't perfect. There's some sugegstions that away from the constant warfare of the crusades many places were a bit decadent, and the Mechanicum was certainly already dehumanizing, but things were improving. As worlds were brought to compliance, they the Imperium tried to recover tech and make life better. The Heresy screwed up a lot of things, and the Imperium certainly isn't getting better, and is generally getting worse. The average citizen is of little value.

The Space Marines, too, have deviated from the planned path. They're still demi-gods compared to the average Imperial citizen, but they're very definitely flawed. The Chapters fight amongst themselves. Usually, bloodless politicking and one-upsmanship, but occasionally hints of worse. They're going to act int heir own interests.

Yep they are, but you are talking about the Marines as depicted and narrated on the novels. Novels that, for my players, are not canon or at least , some of them are rubbish. :( When you have die hard fans that thinks that what GW wrote on the big books and codexes are the real and only canon... well you can understand why they react like this. I dislike this kind of approach, but we have fun, maybe with time they'll understand that playing "big guns bonanza" it's not fun and will try to search something different. Also, because I have fear to not have enough good idea to keep up a warfaring campaign.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Have more than one plot hook in mind too. If a creature has been attacking and they don't recognize the authority of the king, perhaps as they 're walking out they find "something" has attacked their ship, disabling it, and they need to work with the people to get the parts to be able to leave the planet or in more cliche fashion, they witness it attacking innocents. Just keep an open mind, as well as trying to force your player's perceptions of their characters open.

My bad and you're right. I would have needed a plan B for that kind of situation but sincerely I thought they would have made the right decisions. Well, as events unfolded they proofed me wrong. At least now I know what I can and cannot do, they just want plain and simple Imperium concept. They want to wage war and kill Xenos. I'll give it to them, I'm there to have fun, not to impose my way... but this means also that I will not cheat anymore as a DM.

I know you can aim and shoot your guns at me, you are right... I should not cheat, but damn... I wanted them to survive and get inside the story, unfold problems, solve mysteries... but if they want just combat I can't guarantee their safety. Since they have no mercy on my poor Xenos and traitors, I will not show them either. Perhaps they will understand that using a Leader with tactics would be a good idea.

EDIT

I like all your suggestions guys, you're helping me a lot!

And you've yet to respond to a single point I've raised.

Coburn your self-important arrogance is astounding. You come here making statements, often unsupported and in a (phaux) attempt to generate converstaion, yet when challenged you shrink away and claim that those questioning you are being mean to you.

This means one of two things:

1. You are a truly glorious troll.
2. You are incapable or unwilling to discuss the points you have raised and instead just wish to ‘dive bomb’ us with random opinions and then run away before any serious discussion can take place.

I have my doubts on the first reason, and think you more likely the latter.

Am I wrong?

Excuse me HBMC, I but I did respond to your earlier points, but have now decided to ignore your so-called 'challenges' They were anything but that! In fact I will go so far as to say that they are proving to be somewhat monotonous. You continue to try and taunt me into submission while others on Dakka have welcomed me warmly.

Furthermore, I will continue to make subjective statements whether you like it or not. And I feel you have made enough statements of your own arleady HBMC -over 13,000 posts I believe....

Should you consider me an arrogant, no-sorry, a glorious troll - then alas "you can crawl up my arse and die" for the mini-Hitler you are.

I don't expect every person to agree, or even like everything I say, but I 'would expect' people (like you HBMC) to give me a bit of 40k-gaming courtesy than continue trying to find faults all the time.

Its seems you and me will never be friends on here - so perhaps we should just keep outta each other's way.

Its your turn now to prove what type of man you are - perhaps you will want the last say, or have another crack at me -OR maybe you Should just leave things alone.

Relax Cobourn - you are being overly argumentative, that much is true regardless of anything else.

The whole point of belonging to a forum is to engage in discourse, not to issue "challanges" and ultimatums (especially not as a new member to someone who has been part of the community for over 5 years).

To the actual topic:
If the players you are DM'ing for are being closed minded in how they want to play, you are not going to be able to change that very easily.

Small shifts and challanges to the characters via the overall storyline can be created which should hopefully get them to gradually open up to the actual 40K universe, not the one that they narrowly believe to be "true".

Edit: And I've never encountered the close kind of behaviour regards character back story/etc before while playing D&D/RPG games in general. It is always more fun planning yor character with the DM and working out ways to weave them into the story.

Personally the consequences of a Deathwatch team killing a Rogue Trader I think would be interesting. You'd have their crew and any Rogue Traders with ties to the one killed, coming after that squad quickly enough. If they made it back to their Watch fortress, they'd likely be told to go on a more suicidal than normal mission as an act of penance.

If they make it back. the RT's retinue would likely use some type of overkill weapon.

The only thing to do is nuke the squad from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

One of the reasons I tend to dislike 'military' RPGs is that the GM has the 'big stick' of superior officers, but that's always an option in a situation like this.

As to canon: You're the GM. You decide canon. I know I said earlier I don't like the old-fashioned GM vs Players mentality, but the GM does deserve some respect. I know when I was running RPGs, is pent several hours of my free time prepping and I was a mediocre GM compared to the guys I game with now. It's not easy running a game, and the Players do need to give you some slack.

Anyway, the best suggestion is generally to try to run with their idea and make it part of the story. You could have the RT (if he's not dead yet...) reveal that he was actually taking orders from someone else. Maybe he has an 'advisor' from the Adeptus Mechanicus or even the High Lords of Terra. They have an interest in this world and assumed that some veteran, skilled Space Marines would be able to follow directions and not need their hands held.

If they get too uppity with killing the RT or other Imperial representatives, remind them that Horus probably thought he could make the Imperial government work better, too.

If the RT gets popped, maybe his family has connections. The RT wanted to do things on his own merits and never mentioned that his aunt was on a first-name basis with at least one High Lord of Terra.

I think that you might need to pull in some 'heavies' to give them incentives to work with your plot, not against it, but throwing combat at them might not do it. You've offered combat... The big creature the local king wanted taken care of. if (as I suggest above) the High Lords are involved, they could send assassins, but that's an option you can't recover from (can you really say "I'm sorry, bro, didn't mean anything!" after dispatching assassins?) as you've basically had the PCs branded as chaos. However, the High Lords could suggest that maybe the DW owes them some favors for screwing things up, and I think the Space Marines would accept the concept of cleaning up their own messes.

They stepped onto a battlefield they've chosen to be completely unprepared for: politics. If you want a 'voice' maybe try giving them an advisor instead of a boss. Instead of just having the DW orderthem to play nice, maybe have the Imperium's political apparatus kick in. They're 'assigned' a flunky (scribe, aide, whatever) who is a nothing in combat, has no 'real' power, but can tell them how badly they're screwing things up and may know where a few bodies are buried, or at least how to organize a proper state dinner and write a formal apology. If he's a 'boss' it's the GM pushing the PCs around... if it's a flunky it's a bit less galling.

The PCs choice should lead them to adventure. Maybe they'll get a report that the beastie the king wanted them to deal with took down another DW team, and is a nasty Chaos critter (or even the first scout for an invasion force...) and maybe the King knows how to seal the gateway tot he warp that, if left unchecked, could threaten the entire sector. And maybe they've just given him good reason to listen to those nice gentlemen in the spikey armor who just want to talk about how mean the Imperium is and how they've got four very nice friends who can help out when you need a tentacle, err, hand...

Oh, a last thought on canon: the 'official' canon is rife with contradictions and ambiguity as-is. Every Codex makes the featured race the scariest nightmare ever. They can't all be, even in separate niches.

Well in the last two days I wondered about all of this matter. Cornelius (the Rogue Trader) is still alive and was left behind in the exploration of the city ruins from the Deathwatch team. Actually, and to be honest, he got lost in the tunnels underground with his team, while the PGs are engaging combat with some strange ... robot like creatures (not Necrons).

I'll kick in the idea of a chapter dark secret from the Heresy Era, since they pride so much their chapter and sometimes they justify everything with "We are the Inquisition for God Sakes!" I want to see how they will react with a dirty little secret.

Basically, Ultramarines needed fresh troops because the war against the traitors was bloody. An exploration squad found this planet that could create legions of robots wich were the doom of the planet eons in the past. They built them as Space Marines, instructed them to serve the Marine cause, so there are still plenty of these (inactive) in the stores of the industry they are exploring. Some of the other robots though, that had to defend the area, got consciousness of themselves. Like in the Golden Age, they understood that were slaves, and wanted to be free. They rebelled against the Marines and killed the little contingent, the war against chaos by then was over and the ones who knew the secret kept their silence or died on the planet, while the robots in service were quickly sealed in secret chambers, destroyed or used as troops for some newly borned chapters.

How will they react to this ? It's not a "Well you know you have to understand if it's a chaos scheme or not" what they'll have under their nose will be the real thing. The Rogue Trader will see it, the Ministorum they have to recover has seen the robots with the Ultramarines insignia.

@Balance = I do know that I decide canon, but it's awful to see that when you talk, some of the players make faces like "This is ridicoulous" or "This is absurd", and since I'm a sensitive person I tend to be struck by this. Yep, my bad.

For your suggestions, I wondered about those too, and I'm just waiting them to make the wrong move. They are not untouchable, and as you said... if they want to get involved in politics they'll have to pay a price.

KOS wrote:@Balance = I do know that I decide canon, but it's awful to see that when you talk, some of the players make faces like "This is ridicoulous" or "This is absurd", and since I'm a sensitive person I tend to be struck by this. Yep, my bad.

What's so absurd? Showing that Space Marines can be beat, or that they're more than automatons that can be kept in a sotrage box with a prayer book until needed??

The wargame canon is, by definition, focused on stuff that is relevant to the tabletop miniatures game. it makes different abstractions and assumptions than other forms of canon.

if you're frustrated, you may just want to sit down with them and find out what they want and make what you want known, too. You deserve to enjoy this activity!

if all they want is combat, maybe try to tweak the plotline so the Rogue Trader is actually corrupted by Chaos, and the DW have to stop him from turning his ship over to a Traitor Space Marine warband. It's an option for heavy combat (Chaos Space Marines, traitor crew, etc.) and there's room to sneak some storyline in (Maybe the Chaos forces want this ship because of a relic. Maybe they want the planet below because of a relic, or just think it would be fun... And the King the PCs snubbed earlier is the only way to stop them other than a suicide mission.

We've actually spent the better part of a month getting the character part in place before moving on to the action of my game and this is one reason why. Much of this time has been spent with the characters banging off each other as their various Chapter's ways and traditions conflict with each other.

The lesson their superiors persistently drill into them are that they are in the Deathwatch now, NOT their home chapter, and they had better either adapt to that fact or face FAILURE. There are many resources available in-character to help them do this (Chaplain, Watch Commander, other key NPCs). The ONLY measure of success in the Deathwatch is accomplishing the mission - regardless of means (other than outright heresy, of course, and, well maybe even then if you don't get caught...). You do not let glory, pride, tradition or anything else stand in the way of this ultimate goal. If you do you will fail or die and bring shame to your Chapter. The Codex and other guerre de main methods of the Astartes do not apply here unless its' application brings success.

It's been a hard lesson for for my players and their characters to learn and has been very engaging roleplaying wise. The hardest part has been integrating them into a cohesive unit but the initial adversity and its' resultant character building is starting to pay off now that they've started their first mission.

So the point here is that a great deal of fun and interesting plot can be derived from this essential 'Making of a Deathwatch Marine' beginning segment of a campaign. Your players aren't wrong with respect to their character's actions, their Deathwatch indoctrination and mindset has just not fully formed yet. Work with that. Use the stick of failure and have their leaders deride them for being too hidebound and not adapting to the ways of the Deathwatch. The players will have to find their character's road on making this change and it can be quite entertaining.

On a side note I feel that one of the reasons for the Deathwatch Oath of Binding is not only to keep the secrets of the Deathwatch secure but also to protect the Battle Brother who has returned to his Chapter after their service. These Marines have been essentially changed in many ways psychologically from who they were when they left the bosom of their Chapter. The Oath of Binding and their right to wear the Silver Pauldron provides them a mechanism to hide this difference behind when they come home.

BTW, see my online PbP game at http://dw40k.freeforums.org/.

Here's a section from the game pertinent to this discussion, though there are several more...

Gorm seems to cough at that statement, which causes many to look his way. No, not a cough. A laugh.

"Brand, I thought you said this team was ready for Deathwatch deployment", the pale kill-marine growled. "What I'm hearing here is something out of an Ultramarine sewing circle. Thinking with the Codex instead of breaking down the mission and planning for just one thing. Victory."

He jabbed his finger at the members of Kill-Team Navarro, continuing, "What have you been doing here? Remember your training? Start with the mission and go from there. You need to KILL, or, well, maybe capture, Kynde and find out whatever it is he's been planning. Everything else is secondary."

"So", he concluded, "let's just say you were a Kill-Team in the Deathwatch and not a Dark Angel, or a Black Templar, or a Crimson Fist. If that were the case, what would you do?"

Lastly, a quick caveat. This is how I see the Deathwatch and may not line up to other concepts.

Thanks for sharing your idea PrimarchX! It was a nice reply and ATM I'm looking the linked forum

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Yesterday we finally had our gaming session after weeks of problems. The guys faced some minor opposition but had fun and also... retrieved the Ministorum member. In the underground they found out a whole bunch of modified robotic Space Marines with Ultramarines livrery, and a report dated back to the Horus Heresy where it seems that the Ultramarines filled the gaps of their losses with robotic aid to face traitors and alike.

This has shaken the PCs a tiny bit, especially the Ultramarine PC wich decided to inform command of the situation the first time possible.

They also found the lost Ministorum who activated these robots, defending him. Before leaving, the Ultra PC ordered to these robotic soldiers to engage the other robots wich tried to kill the two Deathwatch members, and after the cleanse was complete, to deactivate. The two gets the human and bring it back to the Rogue Trader's ship, and on the trip back (after informing Command of the situation) the Geller Field collapse and the warp breaches inside.

A furious fight is in the engine area where some deamons are killing, slaughtering minions, while a bigger one aim to destroy the warp Engine.

The two marines engage a fight, and the Deamon almost kills the Ultramarine sending him unconscious (he burns a Fate Point to avoid death) but he's able to release a burst that kills injures the Deamon, letting the Blood Angel to finish the job... but it's too late. The warp engine stops, the ship exits violently from warp. Strange and violent sounds depicts that the structure is falling apart. Brother Zorael embrace his fallen brother and runs for safety. They find an escape pod and they are safe.... but wander in space for two weeks without help. They decide to get in stasis... and then, they found themselves in a sort of liquid tank, with human doctors and a couple of Tau looking at them.


It was a nice session, I enjoyed it and I think they did too. ^_^