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I'm sure this has been covered a thousand times or so, but I can't help feeling like I'm using reavers in an inherently 'wrong' way.

I usually run six of them with two Cluster Caltrops, and place them in reserve. They almost always come out on T3 or less, and proceed to zoom over my opponent's units and cause serious damage (which works great in later turns when everything is cramped up near the middle of the board).... I usually cause a couple wounds (on meqs) and a lot more on horde... So far so good. But whenever it comes to getting shot at, or being assaulted, they completely fall apart and usually die in a single turn (five up saves, hurrrrr). That flat out cover save is pretty great, but it never really does anything worthwhile (at least in the last couple games)...

Anyway, how do you gentlemen use your reavers? Do I just have terrible luck? Poor planning? Thanks!

if your unit of 6 always gets whiped in a turn then take 2 units of 3 instead. Another kill point potential but you more survivable.

Also against certain targets(orks come to mind) the splinter rifles are still rather useful if you can rapid fire then run. being safe and doing some damage is better than doing lots of damage but dying immediately.

I use them like vultures to jet bike move over the weakest enemy unit. I had been using 2 units of 6 but have recently changed to 3 units of 6.

I find that two units of 6 can pretty reliably destroy a unit of 4 or 5 so combat squads are prime targets. This usually means you will have one squad with a pain token thus FNP plus the 3+ jet bike cover save. If you can repeat that action on the second turn (pain token unit bladevanes 1st and non-pain token goes second) you can get pain tokens on two units rather fast. That is when I can start thinking about normal jet bike moves and unleashing the heat lances I have in the squadrons.

Fly somewhere they can get out of LoS of most of the enemy. Only bomb what allows that move.

As soon as you get pinned down by assault, or open to an entire army's worth of shooting, Reavers will, and should, be killed. They're too strong and annoying to let run around.

I find Reavers to be probably the weakest DE FA choice. If I want anti-tank/heat lances, I take Scourges. If I want anti-infantry, Hellions or Beastmasters. They are weaker in assault than Hellions, Beastmasters, or even normal wyches. Bladevanes are not nearly as effective as their defenders make it out to be, even with the Grav Talon for pinning or Cluster Caltrops for extra damage. Overall, just a meh unit. You can use them, you can do some damage with them, but for efficiency, almost everything else is better IMO.

Use them as a fast anti-tank platform. Don't be afraid to actually go into cover with them, they have skilled rider!

The only reason I'm not using scourges is because they don't have a kit yet Scourges seem to be the best FA choice, with helions mirroring their effectiveness in assault.

But anyway, yeah, I'll try to abuse LOS. I leave them right in the open quite often, which isn't nessesary

yeah use terrain. I started running 2 units of 3 with both heatlance and caltrops. I decided to go that way because I like options and one unit will always end up zooming and bombing and the other tank hunting. They are under 100 points each, the narrow model makes it easy to get out of LOS and they are great at contesting objectives.

I just use them as my sweeper, really. Also, don't forget their assault phase move of 6" if you do shoot them.

Remember they have Skilled Rider, which doesn't make much of a difference if you Boosted, but is good if you are making the assault phase move.

Otherwise, you pretty much have to just pick your targets with the knowledge it won't take a lot to kill them in your opponent's turn. Either just hit a unit that isn't as good of a target but allows you to get far enough away to avoid getting taken out, or be willing to sacrifice them.

Reavers aren't amazing, they have some extreme limitations, but they have a long reach and can be a real nuisance. Mine usually end up dead, but they also generally do some nice things. I think all the DE FA options are a little weak-I'd rather have Trueborn Venom squads and maybe a Court in a Raider (which I don't actually use) than any of the three FA options in a strictly competitive sense.

remember that as Eldar Jetbikes they do get the 6" Assault move. JSJ with heat lances is a decent use for them as well

Another use for them is to run 3 without upgrades and create cover for other units that need them.

Reavers are good but they are best as an anti infantery unit as you are using them. They share that fnction along with MANY other units in the codex unfortunatly.

With that being sead, it sounds like you are using them alright. An alternative (depends on your AT really) is to get aether sails and the "plow/hook" (?) upgrade and have your raider perform 1d3+1 S4 hit and run attack as well and you can soom over everything.

Skarboy wrote:I find Reavers to be probably the weakest DE FA choice. If I want anti-tank/heat lances, I take Scourges. If I want anti-infantry, Hellions or Beastmasters. They are weaker in assault than Hellions, Beastmasters, or even normal wyches. Bladevanes are not nearly as effective as their defenders make it out to be, even with the Grav Talon for pinning or Cluster Caltrops for extra damage. Overall, just a meh unit. You can use them, you can do some damage with them, but for efficiency, almost everything else is better IMO.

This.

Everything that reavers can do, something else can pretty much do better and more.

Niiai wrote:Reavers are good but they are best as an anti infantery unit as you are using them. They share that fnction along with MANY other units in the codex unfortunatly.

With that being sead, it sounds like you are using them alright. An alternative (depends on your AT really) is to get aether sails and the "plow/hook" (?) upgrade and have your raider perform 1d3+1 S4 hit and run attack as well and you can soom over everything.

Does that really work? I've considered doing this, but a single raider doesn't really put off enough hits to cause any serious damage.... Not to mention I usually prefer just shooting the dark lance :3

Hmmm, my experience with them has led me to believe they are the best Fast Attack option we have – I am thinking that perhaps since I have always used them in a WWP list and that they come out whether the portal is surrounded or not they can hit anything on the board.

I take 6 and I give them lances and the caltrops (a waste I know) that comes around 196 points. Every game so far they have always found a troop choice to run over and they average 5 to 6 dead marines in a single pass - in a game against Necrons I ran them over a Destroyer Squad and they killed 3 out of 5 destroyers and the scourges mopped up the rest. Granted, I do not run them unsupported and usually there is another unit there to mop up the remains as I do not tend to evaluate a unit in a vacuum anyway.

My experience with the Scourges seems to be the opposite as well, they have always been a 1 turn wonder and hardly worth their points when once they emerge they are chosen to be shot at over the bikes. Don’t get me wrong, they actually use the bikes and scourges together as a 1-2 punch but if I had to pick one over the other I would take the bikes easily.

So I am going to say that it is going to depend on your style of list and play that will determine which unit is best for you but I have to share my last experience with them for you:

It was a game against an Iron Warriors player and he lined up his entire list in the center of his 12” deployment zone. I had deployed the WWP about 18” out from my board edge first turn and it was time to start rolling for reserves as it was now 2nd turn. So with 7 or 8 reserves that could come out only 1 unit was ready and it was the bikes. It was like the entire DE reserve force held back on purpose to let the bikes emerge alone to die (I think I heard a collective, “psych!” coming from my models but maybe I was dreaming).

So anyway, I didn’t want to zoom them in the corner and wait next turn as he had some guns that could easily reach them so I decided to tackle the entire 2000 point Iron Warrior list by themselves (as the Haemy and wracks cower in fear in cover). The bikes turbo-boosted over the left most troop choice (a basic squad of 10 CSM with a sgt/fist, and with 2 melta guns) and that would put them as far left as possible. It looked like a suicidal move but what happened was I got lucky with the caltrops with 11 hits and managed 14 wounds on the CSM squad. Again with the luck, the CSM player botches his rolls killing his Sgt. a melta gun and 5 other CSM’s!

The following turn they became the object of interest and after pretty much the entire army fired I still had 2 bikes left (one with caltrops and the other regular) thank you combat drugs for the token! They did manage a 2nd Passover over the same target and brought the unit down to 1 (doing 210 points of damage to the squad) before the bikes died (the turn where everyone became available out of reserves).

So yah, not the most effective way to use them but they got their points back and the warrior fell easily enough once he was combo charged by wyches that next turn.

Perhaps it’s the WWP that is making them so useful for me?

I am running them in a WWP too and have to say that I love them. It might just be that synergy, though.

Scourges suck, unless they pop out of a WWP, IMO. They always get shot to pieces, especially when you spam heat lances or SCs.

But when they DO pop out of a WWP, they're utterly amazing. Shardcarbines and Splinter cannons take down everything, while heat lances basically guarentee a nice clean explosion

Honestly, WWPs make everything better. I think you're probably having so much luck because of it