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DakkaDakka is being a pain in my a$$, logging me out every five minutes. I've written this three times now, so i'll be making it three times shorter. Here's everything in a nutshell:

I have a unique, co-op chapter between Black Templars and Space Wolves, called "Templars of the Wolf".
I have no names whatsoever, no fluff, nothing but the basic idea, so any help is appreciated. And as a bonus, any advice or tips i use in my army/fluff/rules, etc. will be awarded with the chance of naming a character of my army.^^

Is the Chapter made from a combination of the Geneseed or is it literally a mixed bag of the two chapters?

The only chapter of Marines I know that lends units to other chapters is the Mentor Legion and I guess the Deathwatch is something like this, although they are more kill squads than a Chapter.

Whats your idea behind this co operation between the two chapters? Both are rather non codex but one is an actively crusading chapter and the other not so much.

How would the two pick marines and how would the chapter be formed and where?

The idea doesn't make much sence fluff wise from the info you have given.

BluntmanDC wrote:The idea doesn't make much sence fluff wise from the info you have given.

This was my overall impression as well but I thought I would give it a try

Is the Chapter made from a combination of the Geneseed or is it literally a mixed bag of the two chapters?

The only chapter of Marines I know that lends units to other chapters is the Mentor Legion and I guess the Deathwatch is something like this, although they are more kill squads than a Chapter.

Whats your idea behind this co operation between the two chapters? Both are rather non codex but one is an actively crusading chapter and the other not so much.

How would the two pick marines and how would the chapter be formed and where?

Answers: They are the exess amount of marines created by the other two chapters, as they scrape off their worst soldiers, giving them to the Templars of the Wolf (or just "Templars", for short). The Templars then train them into elite soldiers.

They are "xeno-friendly" crusaders, conquering planets from some edge of the galaxy, leaving alone planets inhabited by non-violent orks(yes, they do exist), or if eldar are operating on them, etc. (got a lot of work to do on this part!)

I have not done any fluff yet, so the origins are still shrouded. (this will also need a lot of work!)

I'm hoping i can one day suggest this to GW, so they would make a similar chapter with same basics, but that might be too far-fetched.

Wolftemplar7 wrote:

Answers: They are the exess amount of marines created by the other two chapters, as they scrape off their worst soldiers, giving them to the Templars of the Wolf (or just "Templars", for short). The Templars then train them into elite soldiers.

They are "xeno-friendly" crusaders, conquering planets from some edge of the galaxy, leaving alone planets inhabited by non-violent orks(yes, they do exist), or if eldar are operating on them, etc. (got a lot of work to do on this part!)

I have not done any fluff yet, so the origins are still shrouded. (this will also need a lot of work!)

I'm hoping i can one day suggest this to GW, so they would make a similar chapter with same basics, but that might be too far-fetched.

... ok ... this seems very strange and I am not sure whether you are serious or not. Do you know the background of the Black Templars?

fluff ****

marines are elite soldiers already
their "bad soldiers" are either servitors or dead
and SW/BT don't care for codex marine limits so why should they send marines to this "wolf templar"(really original) chapter

Devastator....

As your avatar says, STFU.

I'm talking about scouts, marines that screw up, etc. you idiot...

For the third time, i haven't written any concrete history yet!!!!! They could be old enough to date back all the way to right after the heresy, when the rules were stricter!!

and, seriously? What is so wrong with the name? Would it be better with something like "kitty-cats", or "green ravens", or maybe "Devastator rapers", huh?
It fits perfectly as a name. I mean, some are Black Templars, some are Space Wolves!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok, now that i've shut him up...

Pilau Rice
I have not looked at it so much, but know the basics. You see, i like the knight theme, so i'm gonna make it work at all costs.

calm down with your nerd rage

marine that screws up ends up with death oath or as servitor

read your fluff first before raging to others

Devastator....

As your avatar says, STFU.

I'm talking about scouts, marines that screw up, etc. you idiot...

For the third time, i haven't written any concrete history yet!!!!! They could be old enough to date back all the way to right after the heresy, when the rules were stricter!!

and, seriously? What is so wrong with the name? Would it be better with something like "kitty-cats", or "green ravens", or maybe "Devastator rapers", huh?
It fits perfectly as a name. I mean, some are Black Templars, some are Space Wolves!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ok, now that i've shut him up...

Pilau Rice
I have not looked at it so much, but i know the basics. You see, i like the knight theme, so i'm gonna make it work at all costs.^^


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oops, doubgle-post. well, whatever....

Devastator.......

Turpa kiinni.

Et varmaan ees pelaa Space Marineillä.
Päätin nyt että ne on niin vanha chapter, että ne on siltä ajalta juuri heresyn jälkeen, ku säännöt oli: max 1.000 sotilasta per chapter, piste.
Menes nyt takaisin teeveen eteen, kun ei löydy mielikuvitusta, sillä tuhosin juuri täysin kaikki väitteesi.^^

Let's all calm down and remember Rule no.1

Plus, we don't allow the use of the word rape as slang.

I would be grateful if you would take account of this in future.

Wolftemplar7 wrote:
Menes nyt takaisin teeveen eteen, kun ei löydy mielikuvitusta, sillä tuhosin juuri täysin kaikki väitteesi.^^

so your now hiding behind language barrier?

yes i actually play space marines
and no you didn't destroy any of my arguments

go back to whatever bridge you crawled out

Sorry, killcrazy. I'ts just the fact that no-one seem enthusiastic, about it.

And with someone like Devastator, smacking at the base on which my whole idea stands, it just makes it kinda hard to follow rule no. 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

so your now hiding behind language barrier?

yes i actually play space marines
and no you didn't destroy any of my arguments

go back to whatever bridge you crawled out

Jeez... If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it!
And, in fact, by stating that the chapter was created right after the heresy(when the rules were: 1.000 men, period.), i actually DID obliterate all your arguments why they couldn't exist.
Now, if you would please return to YOUR bridge, troll.
Happy vacation, hope you brake something.^^

Btw. Killkrazy.
Any idea why dakka is logging me out every 5 mins?

Hey
Just to start off, Wolftemplar7, I'm not sure if you're serious about what you write or just trolling, but I'll just go with this thread being serious.

- First of all, Devastator is making valid points and about "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it", well it's called criticism, it's what people usually come here for.

their "bad soldiers" are either servitors or dead

this makes sense. AFAIK Space Marines have a pretty strong sense of duty so this seems resonable even though I'm no pro on SM fluff.
- Next, the 1000 Soldier limit is not applied by the Black Templar and the Space Wolves. I just read through the Black Templar codex again and it says they are believed to have somthing like 6000 marines.
- Finally, the fact that they are Xeno friendly is completly against the Black Templar fluff. The BT are notorious for hating everything non-human or heretic. Black Templar leaving aliens alone would be like Orks signing a peace treaty over a cup of milky tea... ain't gonna happen^^

If you want to use your army the way you presented it and play with that fluff, go ahead, no one will stop you. Every army can have their back ground if the player choses to imagine it that way and if your opponent doesn't like it, just don't speak of the background and enjoy the game.
If you however want to have a background which fits in with the actual chapters and story proposed by GW, then you will have to make some changes and listen to the other people on Dakka without insulting them.

Oh yeah and about the originality of the name, there's nothing directly wrong with Templars of the Wolf. However it is not very original since your pretty much just taking half of one name and half of the other and putting it together. It would be like mixing Ultramarines and Space Wolves to Ultra Wolves. Buuut if you like that name there's nothing wrong with that.

lg
FFE

Edit: Another question...

as they scrape off their worst soldiers, giving them to the Templars of the Wolf (or just "Templars", for short). The Templars then train them into elite soldiers.

Why would they want to take the worst of their soldiers and give them elite training? Scouts who fail to do their duty die, because they simply cannot be Space Marines. From what I understand you want something like the IG penal companies. Those bad-ass thugs who go against regulations or just some poor soldiers who need another chance to prove their worth... Imho this doesn't work with SM, they take only the best of the best. If the soldiers are not good enough then they are not worthy of being SM... That's just how I understand the thing, what was your idea?

Yeah, i understand.
I understand the criticism too, but what he is saying is going quite far from just criticism.

And doesn't anyone read the part about just after the heresy?
What i've read, Roboute Guilliman had strict rules that the remaining legions be reduced to 1.000 man chapters, "so that never more can one man hold the power of a whole legion".
The Templars of the Wolf were a second founding chapter. And as some fluff to end this discussion, the BT and SW vowed never to take back anything that had been given away.
So, are we now clear on the thing about the marine limit? That was then, the BT are 6000 NOW, get it?

As for the name, i once again ask: what is wrong with it? Half of them are BT, the other half SW.
It makes perfect sense, as the idea is that they fought together during the heresy at some point, and decided to combine the best parts into a chapter of its own.

And finally, the xenos. Remember: this isn't BT or SW, this is a whole new chapter! They might not have that much moral ideals in common after all these years! Could someone please read through the SW codex and tell me the last words of Russ? Yeah, he's talking about a BIG fight.
I'll have some prophecy saying that, basically: "United we stand, Divided we fall" meaning that we have to set aside our brawls against the orks, eldar etc. and gather everything we have in order to survive
(against, for example, a massive tyranid hive fleet), much like "The Last Stand" in DoW2.

(Btw. if Eldar and Chaos can convince orks to stomp someone else first, so can the SM) <----- DoW 1 and 2.

Any more questions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, as i see the idea of getting leftovers from BT and SW isn't ever going to be accepted, i modified it to the above version.

ok, I know you won't like what i have to say, but remember that it isn't personal.



I gather from your idea so far, that you haven't been playing 40k very long and as such aren't familiar with alot of the more basic principals(we all were once, this too shall pass)


here are some rules, yes rules, for 40k. these are things that are always true, and unless followed, your fluff won't be taken seriously.


1) Space Marines never leave the chapter unless they have commited some horrible crime, in which case they are either killed or exiled on a death oath(in which case they die either way), or are lent to the Deathwatch(Which is the very best marines the chapter can lend)

2) There is no such thing as a Xeno friendly Crusade. no Space Marine would ever leave a Xeno planet unmolested unless their was a bigger threat and then it would only be a matter of time.

3) there is no such thing as a non-violent ork. Orks were created to fight. their species and society can only function in a state of eternal war.

4) the Eldar are capricious and untrustworthy. Space Marines MIGHT work with Eldar, but only if there was a bigger threat to hand. the word of a Farseer is never taken lightly, but Marines never trust Eldar, not ever for a second. and the instant such issues are dealt with, either the Eldar stab the Space marines in the back or the Marines attack the Eldar.



your name is fine.

but your idea of a Space Wolf/BT chapter is a little shaky.

the main problem is that the Space Wolf Geneseed is unstable away from the rest of the Space Wolves. there once was a chapter created out of Space Wolf geneseed, but they all fell to the Curse of the Wulfen and were disbanded.



read some more fluff. a bunch of Black library books will do as well as the Codex's.

once you have a basic idea, that doesn't violate any of the standing fluff, you come back here and bounce it off of us.

we really love hearing the fluff about custom chapters. we also hate it when it violates the core principals of the 40k universe.

The thing is afaik, that the Black Templar never really gave a damn about the limit. But in the end yeah, I guess if Gulliman was bothering them... well it's up to you, this game's about havin fun if you like the story go with it.
If you like the name keep it, imho it's still better than the name Ultramarines

Wait,

combine the best parts into a chapter of its own.

. I thought it were the worst?
Anyhow, I don't really care about the whole xeno friendly thing. In the end it's your chapter. From a fluff point of view I don't think any member of the BT would ever fight alongside with xenos since the condition to actualy become a BT after the heresey was to be zealous and crazy.
I don't have the Space Wolves codex so I don't know what Russ is talking bout so yeah I'll leave that to others to comment on.

I think the problem here is not that SM are working together with some xenos to fight other evils, but that it's the Space Wolves (I guess don't really know them) and the BT. These are just the most stubborn of stubborn space marines who kill xenos and then think about the usefullness of the situation. But after Blood Angels and Necrons becoming Bros I guess anything goes^^

Do you already have any minis? If so which codex are you going to use? (Please no Space Wolves codex with 900 missle launchers xD)

seeing this thread here and the reaction of the OP i think this is getting very ugly in a very short time... the idea is nonsense and the way he treats others is unforgiving... if devastor and the OP ahve a history out of dakka then this should be the best for the OP to do things shown here in form of OP or at best not at all...
i am not really that long on this board but i have never seen such behavoir previously on dakka...and i think there should be some measures taken to stop this kind of wordaction as soon as possible...

vik

No, i don't play very much. I collect to paint, mostly. Yet i feel like i want to make a colourful background for them, which can still be used for gaming.

1. They aren't leaving anymore, read the post-heresy part.

2,3 and 4.Oh, for christ's sakes.... THAT'S THE IDEA! They'll only work together 'til the big threat is gone, then they'll continue waring! Forget all about my original post!!!
It has all changed!!!

The problem with SW geneseed: LOOK AT THE POST-HERESY FLUFF-THING, which i have written many times! They aren't that far away from another Space Wolf!
There's at least 500 of 'em standing next to each other!

Most of this has been written several times already.
If i have violated anything else, or if you want me to repeat myself AGAIN, please, do argue with me on this matter.

No hard feelings, i appreciate the criticism. A little tip, though. It works best with a suggestion of some kind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fine, i give up. forget it, it's getting too hard to do this. And seeing viks post, i'm dumbfonded. All i wanted was help and constructive criticism, but you all smashed it onto the rocks. Then Someone i have never met before(Devastator) starts insulting me as i explain. Yet I, am suddeenly the a$$h*le? This somehow seems unfair...

Remember, dakka is logging me out all the time so i have to write everything twice, and that makes it even more difficult.

Few things. First, your founding idea still doesn't really fit the existing fluff because the Black Templars are a second founding chapter, who came from the Imperial Fists. Also, neither the BT nor the SW followed the Codex from the get-go.

As far as the SW geneseed goes: Why would 500 of them being there make any difference when a WHOLE chapter's worth being together didn't save them.

The reason you're repeating yourself isn't because we're not getting it. We understand you fine. It's just that your ideas STILL don't really fit into the established universe. Which, as stated above, is fine. You can continue ignoring us as much as you want. Just get used to people questioning it.

We're trying to help you out here, but it's a bit difficult to give suggestions when almost 100% of your fluff contravenes existing fluff. That would be why my fellow Dakkanauts are suggesting that you try reading more codexes, BL novels, etc so you've got a firmer fluff basis to stand on. Also, we try to keep things civil here, as Kilkrazy advised you to do. This generally includes avoiding the use of terms such as "STFU," implying mental deficiency in a derogatory sense, and wishing sexual assault upon people.

First off. Take a deep breath. Cool your tits. We're trying to help you, and nerd raging at everyone in the topic is not going to work.

I'm going to be as blatant about this as possible, because obviously trying to work with you is only going to be met with nerd rage.

1) Black Templars and Space Wolves aren't going to leave their chapter unless exiled or put in the Deathwatch.

2) No Space Marine claiming to be a BT is going to have anything to do with allowing any form of Xeno to live.

3) Orks are never peaceful.

4) Only the Space Wolves (AFAIK) have Russ' geneseed.

Your fluff must adhere to these four things or the fluff won't work.

So, let's really whittle this one down...

To the OP, is this combined chapter going to incorporate elements of the Space Wolf and Black Templar codexes?

Ok. I see this isn't going anywhere.

I'm scrapping all of this, and starting from scratch.
If someone could tell me how to remove or end this thread, i'll correct the whole thing, keeping the name, somehow rephrasing it, and blending it in the new stuff.
Btw. i see now my folly in thinking i've read enough. you see, i didn't know the BT were 2nd founding.

And one more thing: I NEVER EVER EVEN MENTIONED THE WORD FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT, BLAME THAT ON DEVASTATOR, thank you.
(i only used caps to make sure it was noticed, and if i somehow upset someone by making them think that i was irritated, i humbly apologise.)

I have no GW shop in my city, only a retail store, so the book-aquiring is complicated.
But i will somehow make it possible for me to have a model knight-dude in a game, holding medieval swords while sitting on a wolf(yet not having anything to do with SW), with IG tanks behind him.

Firstly - cry moar.

Secondly - make your own chapter, do whatever you like fluff wise - but you'll still have to follow either the Space Marines/Templar codex or the Space Wolf. You can't pick and mix rules as you like.

Aside from that, do as you please, just stop complaining when people start picking at ideas, when you evidentially know very little about what you're saying.

I think I can help a bit.

First and Foremost lets solve your retyping issue. "Ctrl C" is your friend. Copy your post before you hit submit. If it logs you out and doesn't post- whatever, just open the widow again "Ctrl V" and paste that bad boy! saves lots of time. I copy my posts all the time before submitting.

I can't really speak to your fluff. Being a dirty Eldar enthusiast, and a fledgling heretic, but it does indeed sound fishy.

Templar of the Wolf is a fine name, its fine. Just dump all of the baggage you are bringing along with it. Lots of Space Marine Chapters have very simlilar names

Dark Angels
Blood Angels
Blood Ravens (DoW's popularity has made them cannon)
Imperial Fists
Crimson Fists

you get the idea. A wolf is an intimidating name, and Templars are a fine word to modify.

What people have an issue is combining two of the most confrontational and aggressive chapters in the astartes. Just dump all that baggage. Say they are a successor chapter of somebody- like the Imperial Fists- Rogol Dorn was a real man, Russ was a freak .

If you want them to be *more* xeno friendly, thats totally fine. Just remember if your Chapter Master doesn't recognize that the Eldar will only work with the Imperium when it is in their best interest, and will turn on him in a heart beat if the Eldar interest lies elsewhere, then he is simply naive and he had best be prepared to engage the Eldar in combat at any time at a moment's notice. The Eldar would sacrafice the entire Imperium of Man to ensure the safety of a single Craft World, and would never be able to respect a member of a lesser race- no matter how noble he is. never forget this.

Further recognize that a more accommodating attitude and fraternizing with Eldar will lead to increased attention from the Inquisition. This is fine, lots of chapters have beef with the Inquisition- I'm looking at you Wolves + Angels!

Wolftemplar7 wrote:And one more thing: I NEVER EVER EVEN MENTIONED THE WORD FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT, BLAME THAT ON DEVASTATOR, thank you.

Wolftemplar7 wrote:
. . . or maybe "Devastator rapers", huh? . . .

Nice job lying even after a mod caught you red-handed .

Wolftemplar7 wrote: . . . and if i somehow upset someone by making them think that i was irritated . . .

Gee, why would we think that?


Anyways, I hope that you....

A) Come up with some fluff that fits with your vision for your army while still staying in the established 40k fluff.
B) Learn to not make personal attacks and get mad when you can't handle constructive criticism.

Jolly good, you'll probably be better off in the long-run creating your own fully-formed chapter rather than trying to PVA-glue some established chapters together. That stuff never holds very well anyway

For fluff research, try lexicanum. It's a pretty good resource for a lot of things 40k.

Also, counts-as is definitely your friend in instances like this. You could have marines riding wolves instead of bikes without ever bringing the SW codex into it as long as you clearly let your opponents know beforehand. Pretty much all the chapters use some sort of medieval weaponry somewhere or other. You've got a lot of freedom to make this work with just about any codex and stretch your creativity. That said, it sounds like picking either SW or BT would be the easiest way to start.

I think for some players, this should be in their game room...

Wolfun wrote:Firstly - cry moar.

One user being rude does not justify another user being rude in return.

As the OP has asked for the thread to be ended, I am locking it.

That being said, there has been quite a good amount of constructive advice given as well, so WolfTemplar, I highly encourage you to make use of it, particularly the referral to the Lexicanum for additional fluff material.