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Just want to make sure on something. Since the Skaven book says that we count the Bell as the same number of Skaven that would normally occupy that space(15 models in a 3x5) for Rank Bonus, would this apply for the Hordes rule as well? Basically, if I had a unit of Clanrats pushing it, would I need only 7 Rows in addition to the Bell or 9 to achieve Horde status?

I want to say 7, but I want to see how others think before I try it out.

Seven files (or columns) in addition to the bell to get horde formation is my understanding. I usually see more than that for whatever reason, though.

The bell counts as 15 models, so you would only need 7 wide in the front rank plus the bell (3 wide) to make it 10 wide or horde status.

Red_Zeke wrote:Seven files (or columns) in addition to the bell to get horde formation is my understanding. I usually see more than that for whatever reason, though.

Simetry, people like their simetry

certainly symetry! My bell unit was 72 rats strong, 4 each side of the bell and 8 ranks deep, FEAR THE BELL

...more attacks against other hordes?

I guess symmetry would eliminate some very rare and obscure situations of advantage for your opponent due to base contact...

...then again, the extra rat will also lead to awkward maneuvering at other times. I guess we'll have to chalk it up to obsessive behavior. Not that I'm saying I don't.

Gorillawizard wrote:certainly symetry! My bell unit was 72 rats strong, 4 each side of the bell and 8 ranks deep, FEAR THE BELL

So when the seer miscasts, he's touching 15 rats, correct?

More often then not, I killed more of the pushers than my opponent with the miscasting.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Gorillawizard wrote:certainly symetry! My bell unit was 72 rats strong, 4 each side of the bell and 8 ranks deep, FEAR THE BELL

So when the seer miscasts, he's touching 15 rats, correct?

More often then not, I killed more of the pushers than my opponent with the miscasting.

-Matt

Thats what skaven do best isn't it, blow stuff up, blow their ownselves up more than most. Thats probably the reason i don't play skaven anymore

Well, sure, you kill a lot of your own guys. But then again, your guys cost less than 5pts a model. I'll gladly butcher 15 slaves to take out 3 Pheonix Guard.

If a Grey Seer doesn't kill some of his own clanrats (presumably those who weren't suitably grovelling), is he really a Grey Seer at all?

The main reason for Horde + SB is that, generally, you want your BSB in the nice big unbreakable unit, near to your general.

If you do that with a Horde unit you can keep your BSB safe frmo the large template that comes with a lot of miscasts, reducing the chances of crispy fried rat with banner.

A sneaky trick (and shouldn't you be using those as a skaven?) if you have a magic banner (and thus no defensive items on your BSB) is to leave your bell unit 5 wide, and take a command group. The bell takes up 3 of your front rank, leaving you with one model on either side. Since your command group HAS to be in the front rank, your BSB remains safe from combat attacks from the front.

Or, you put it 10 wide and buy 5 cheap as chips warlocks

Give you will likely want 1 for a rocket, and 2 for the orb and globe, they arent points wasted. Nothing then requires the hero to step up onice you skitterleap the suicide warlocks out.