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We all know the classic way of operating with DE is to load up on as many raiders as possible, but I have two problems with this (and yes, I freely admit that I am being hoisted on my own petard here).

1: Vehicles cost a lot of money - I have a wife, two kids and my other hobby is reenactment. This does not leave much gaming cash in the pot
2: I hate painting vehicles! I don't know why, I just always seem to struggle to work up the enthusiasm to do them and then am not satisfied with the finished results.

The question then becomes, can I do an effective DE build without vehicles and if so how?

I assume you would have to start a Haemonculus with a WWP in either a big warriors unit (FNP ablative wounds should keep him alive long enough to deploy the portal) or Harlequins with a Shadowseer (so nothing outside of 24" gets a chance to try and shoot him), or both

With portal(s) deployed then use heat lance reavers/blaster scourges/haywire grenade wyches to emerge and kill vehicles whilst beastmasters munch the infantry.

Does this sound right? Has anyone else tried doing this? Or am I barking up the wrong tree completely and will just have to grit my teeth and paint the *bleep*ing transports?

thanks in advance for any help.

You can do withw ith warriors and wracks. Probably other units.

One is walk towards him and open up wwp for faster long recahing units to come out of.

another tactic is to take 20 warrioprs, 2 dark lances and a haemonculus: Now you have 22 wounds sitting in cover with a 75% chance to save all >S5 shots. Good luck killing it.

Sure, I run a foot list, it works fine for me.

I call them the "Foot clan" and pain them up like the shredder and his gang.

Archon with WWP and what ever you like.

3 Hammies with hex rifles

Bloodbrides,

Grots (Small unit)

Other elite of choice ( I use small true born)

3 units of 10 warriors with DL

15 wytches

Beast masters 10 kymerae 4 flocks

cronos

talos

talos.

Everything in the list can damage tanks in some way. The hammies set up with the warriors to give them FnP. Then they break off to snipe.

IF you're asking if it is possible to build a DE foot-slogging list, it is. If you're asking if a DE foot-slogging list is going to be a top-tier take-all-comers and make them cry list, it isn't.

There's a lot of ways to go about it, half of which involve a WWP. Shying away from vehicles is fine - they *are* expensive, but then you almost get pointed right into MCs.

You looking for soemthing you can play that is fun and works together, or something that can stomp other people?

@Dash - I'd like to make something very competitive if possible (and am looking forward to any advice from the master )

I have two other armies - one was largely inherited and is not in any way competitive and one that was built 'fluff first' and is also pretty poor. I'd like this army to be able to stomp for a change!

I'm troubled my young apprentice that you would like a competitive army while imposing restrictions on the army you can build that remove inclusion of some of your best assets.

This may not be totally thought out, so bear with me. I've never really considered a footslogging list of DE before. I went gunline with this one since I think the more mobile options that DE have aside from vehicles will probably get strung out to dry without the vehicles mobile cover.

I do not like wwp, ever....so I didn't go that route, so see what you think about this..

2,000 points

3x Haemy, (1) Shattershard, (2) Hexrifles - 195

1x Baron - 105

6x Squads of Warriors - 690
10x warriors w/ (1) Blaster, (1) Spl. Cannon

3x Squads of Trueborn - 258
3x Trueborn w/ (2) Dark Lances

2x Squads of Scourges - 260
5x Scourges w/ (2) Haywire Blasters

1x Squad of Beastmaster - 177
4x Beastmaters
7x Khymera
3x Razorwing Flocks

3x Talos w/ Twin-linked Haywire Blaster Upgrade- 315

Haemy's get spread between the front most warriors to advance on objectives.

Baron goes with beastmasters to provide the bonus to cover saves and serve as more of a counter attack squad unless they can get into assault range of a vehicle without getting shot to pieces.

Trueborn are deployed in cover with decent firing lanes to shoot at vehicles.

Scourges are mostly for anti tank. I'm kind of in love with haywire blasters after 4 shots exploded a landraider and dreadnought in turn 1 my last game. Granted, that's not typical, but my opponent was pissed. It was rather hilarious in hindsight.

Talos are being used here more of a fire magnet and anti tank. I would keep them up front, in between squads of warriors with Haemy's to provide some anti-assault protection if they live that long and provide cover for the remaining troops that don't have fnp.

I went as msu as I could to add targets to the board for survivability, maxing out the entire foc. The list is still low on at and loses a good bit of range without vehicles. I wouldn't deploy anything in reserve regardless of 1st or 2nd with this list and wouldn't deepstrike the scourges, since they can hit turn 1 with their 12" move and 24" range weapon. Positioning, Cover, cover, cover.

I chose warriors, simply b/c they're the most versatile troop choice we have and have ranged capabilties that the other choices don't have. Wyches tend to just die when walking, and wracks are near useless until they're within 8" of something and they still can't assault through cover worth a flip..... lame. They would make a good meat shield though.

Good luck.

By footslogging you mean FLYING AROUND ON HOVERBOARDS! HELLZ YEAH YOU CAN! Hellions, baby. Just get tons of them. I'm talking about taking the Baron and playing 4 full squads of 20 of them puppies. You will need some way of blowing up vehicles, though. So, I would recommend getting as many Dark Lances on Kabalite Warriors as possible. And then field minimum squads of Kabalite Trueborn maxed out with Dark Lances. Or maybe load up on 3 squads of 6 (or 9) reavers with heat lances. Then afterward, smash your opponent and ask him how he does he deal.

EDIT:

Post to be taken only semi-seriously.

Dash is good, but he is not omipotent: I would start here and se where it got you at 1750 points:

Archon, WWP, Clone Field, Ghostplate armour, Combat Drugs, Agoniser, Blaster 170
Haemonculy, WWP, LFG, Venom blade 100

5 Grotesque, LFG, Aberation, Venom Blade 200

20 Warriors, 2 Dark lances 230
5 Warriors, Blaster 60
5 Warriors, Blaster 60

10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310
10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310
10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310

This list is decent and cheap. (Ogre bulls as grotesques. Swhooping hawks or warriors with gargoyle wings as scourges. A zombie or a wizard as the haemonculy.)

In short, deploy haemonoculy with warriors, lay down portal. Deploy arcon with grotesques, walk "mid field" ish and lay down portal. Scrouges comes out, kills anything they shoot and assault getting pain tokens.

Smaler warrior squads + arcon shoot down lesser target with the blasters. Yes the archon is unorthodox to say the least, but with the grotesques he will winn in wars of atrition.

Or do as Kruce suggests:

Baron 105
20 hellions, helliarch, agoniser 345
20 hellions, helliarch, agoniser, Phantasem greandelauncher 365

10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310
10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310
10 Scourges, 4 Blasters, Solarite with Agoniser 310

1745/1750

The last list will suffer from a lack of range, but all your helions can glance things in close combat. Happy hunting.

You can also do a Baron list full of Troops Hellions, add 3 units of Heat-lance scourges for anti-tank/infantry and you wind up with a Fast foot list that can damage most things.

Unless you go for a hover army as above, speed/mobility will be a huge problem.

Perhaps alternative models, e.g. a poor clan which builds their own counts-as vehicles from junk and looted stuff? That would help with cost, but not your aversion to painting vehicles

I don't know, the main appeal of Dark Eldar, other then a pleothora of pointy bits is flying around fast. Dark Eldar are pirates, they get in and out quickly, while its an interesting twist I don't think its nearly as competitive. Besides the transports look pretty cool IMO.

Clang wrote:Unless you go for a hover army as above, speed/mobility will be a huge problem.

Why?

Speed and mobility isn't a problem for any other foot based armies (blob guard, green tide, tyranids). There's enough speed and mobility built into the game that players have only to exert it.

Niiai wrote:Dash is good, but he is not omipotent:

If I said that, I think I'd look over my shoulder for the lightning strike. I'm certain there must be repercussions for blasphemy.

I think I would "counts as..." the vehicles and go Mekdeldar for certain victory. I use Vypers for Venoms, and even Serpents for Raiders. I'm currently turning an F-18 Super Hornet into a Razorwing jetfighter. It already comes with missiles, just add 2 DL, bake at 350 for 10 minutes and serve...

- Phanatik

I've been playtesting the same list idea myself, using Kroot Mercenaries models in a 'counts as' setting:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2011/3/Forces_of_the_Kroot-01134417.doc

What I've learned is that the WWP are mandatory for an assault-based foot-slogging army. I was running mine in venoms, but now use harlequins. The other problem I've come across is ranged anti-vehicle, since you're eliminating a lot of dark lances that come with those raiders. I dealt with this partially by many of the suggestions that have already been mentioned:

Talos with haywire launchers
Harlequins with fusion pistols
Trueborn with blasters

It's very satisfying to have those small trueborn units or a talos come out of the WWP and immediately cripple the closest vehicle. The return fire on a 4-man unit of trueborn, however, not nearly as satisfying. I haven't tried scourges or hellions, mainly because my fast attack slots are taken by beastmasters (I had to find a way to use all my Kroot hounds!).

As Dash said, it's possible and quite a fun list that actually works well together. Competitive, nada. Your opponent will be quite pleased to see you are fielding Dark Eldar without transports in mechanized 5th edition. That said, it absolutely fulfills what I want to get out of the hobby.

6x Haemunculi

6x 20 Warriors-blaster, 2 darklances

2x Harlequins-shadowseer

this is only the core of the army, fill the rest of the points with your choice of mobile elements (beasts, jetfighter, trueborn, scourges)

step 1) attach Haemculi to Warriors

step 2) Harlequins line up in front of the Warriors; they give a cover save and can't be shot at unless the enemy gets within the 24 inch no-man's land (24 inches:96 splinters, 12 inches: 192 splinters and charging Harlequins)

Osyr wrote:6x Haemunculi

6x 20 Warriors-blaster, 2 darklances

2x Harlequins-shadowseer

this is only the core of the army, fill the rest of the points with your choice of mobile elements (beasts, jetfighter, trueborn, scourges)

step 1) attach Haemculi to Warriors

step 2) Harlequins line up in front of the Warriors; they give a cover save and can't be shot at unless the enemy gets within the 24 inch no-man's land (24 inches:96 splinters, 12 inches: 192 splinters and charging Harlequins)

That core is pretty similar to mine (I use 3x razorwing j-fighter), and anything that begins with "Get 100+ FnP warriors with dark lances" is going to create a very strong list. I wouldn't worry too much about the WWP, try to use the points on grenades somewhere.

To be frank, you're going to be better off saving the points on raiders, but people are so swept up in 5th ed vehicles mania that they automatically discount anything that isn't riding around in a 70ish point av10 garbage can w/ dark lance. It's important to distinguish the people who post extremely frequently, from the people that are actually posting good ideas.

Thanks for all the feedback guys

Obviously Dash has some reservations about me becoming his Padawan with this idea

I usually play at 1,500 with my group so some of the ideas may be a little off points wise - Here's the rough idea I sketched out:

Baron -105
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, WWP - 95
Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, WWP - 95

10x Warriors, Sybarite, Blaster, Splinter Cannon - 135
10x Warriors, Sybarite, Blaster, Splinter Cannon - 135
10x Wyches, Hekatrix, Agoniser, Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet, Haywire Grenades - 170
10x Wyches, Hekatrix, Agoniser, Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet, Haywire Grenades - 170
10x Hellions - 160

6x Reavers, 2x Heat Lances - 156
5x Scourges, 2x Blasters - 140
5x Scourges, 2x Blasters - 140

Total - 1501

The plan would be to start the two warrior units on the board with a haemy attached to each. Deploy as far forward as I could get them in good cover, approx 3' apart and 18" from the short board edges. Turn one they would each drop the portals - this should mean that most of the board is in range for an instant assault from anything arriving through them.

The Wyches, Reavers and Scourges will all deploy through the portals taking out vehicles as a priority before moving on to infantry. Baron rides with the Hellions and can either start on the board in a good backfield hiding place to guard against enemy infiltrators/deep strikers or come through the portals with the rest of the reserves.

Bear in mind this is only a first pass and there does seem to be an undertone in most of the posts that this is great fun but not competitive. I feel sure that it has potential with the right tweaks (specifically I am worried as to whether I have enough anti-vehicle capability, especially without Ravagers or Venom/Blaster Trueborn combos), but I don't know whether to trust my feelings on this...

help me Obi-Dash-Kenobi, you're my only hope!!!

But Razorwings do not have Feet =(

P.S. @ Osyr - what points do you play at? Your 'core' is 2,000 before you say add fast stuff!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh, congrats on post number 2000 ChrisCP

Whoops, well Ive been playing things wrong for a bit....

Forgot about the 'Sharing the pain' rule! lol

Im calling every game Ive lost void now.

But yes, I played loads of footslogging games successfully with the old book, and sometimes units are best left still, like a large unit of warriors with dark lances, or lots of small units of trueborn with dark lances, but then that takes up your elites.

WWP is definately needed footslogging, but then again it never really works the way you want it. It saves a few turns movement and losses, but by the time you get a unit out of it and wait the turn of not being able to charge (out in the open usually cuz you panic and deploy the portal in a make do position), you end up thinking; 'I could have just ran them there as easily.

Chimera, a couple of thoughts.

1. The Shattershard is totally the best thing in the DE codex. Seriously. Thought you should know.

2. Reavers with heat lances are *very* meh. Have you thought about beasts? Doesn't matter that they don't get power through pain - they are still ridiculously good. And the Baron can give them a 3+ cover save.

I know reavers are not everyone's cup of tea, but am concerned about AV14 (my regular oponent loves his land raiders )

Would Haywire grenades do the job reliably enough or do you need the meltas?

As for the shattershard, I'll admit I passed over it at first because it was a one use short range weapon, but the more I think about it the more potential uses I can find for it. Would you recommend swapping the Liquifier guns for them or taking it as well as?

unfortunately you can only take one shattershard in the entire army..

Yea, Shattershards pretty awesome.

I usually take 1 little fun piece of wargear per game. The dark gate is a personal favourite but last time I used it it did damn all. Actually last 2 times.

why are you cunserned about AV14? Unles you are in a very heavy dark templar enviorment then the lances reduces that to ap 12.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChrisCP wrote:But Razorwings do not have Feet =(

they do not have fleet but they move an ekstra d6 in the shooting phase since they are eldar jetbikes. However, I still think bladevanes is the only way to use them cost eficient.