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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




 Grumpy Gnome wrote:


I think the campy Pulp vibe of the original Star Wars helps take some of the sting out of the horrors in that story, kind of like the Fallout universe… and Andor is a bit more explicit on just how grim things are just as the Rebellion gets started.



You have to wonder whether the look of a lot of that earlier sci-fi was down to the prohibitive expense of creating alien & futuristic worlds. Producers have a lot more money to play with now, especially for an indentured franchise like Star Wars. Fans aren't content with the old 'hero's journey' style of storytelling anymore, and they won't accept superficial premises, not 40+ years on from the birth of the idea. Everything is checkable against a universe of sacred lore: it's much harder to be spontaneous. New ideas can potentially come across as spurious, even sacrilegious to that lore. So I think it's natural that these types of additions to the canon will always be grittier and more realistic. I don't think a pulpy, flash vision of Star Wars would work in live action now, although they're ticking that box with the cartoons.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






As I mentioned in a much earlier post, Andor exploring a different feel or mood for Star Wars feels important.

I’ve watched everything Star Wars, except the Holiday Special. And Andor is the first without much derring do so far. We’ve had one shoot out so far, and even that had a fairly “real” feel to it. Nobody standing out in the open. No imbalance in overall accuracy.

Dark and gritty is a term so used and abused of late it’s largely lost all meaning. But Andor has earned it. It’s almost the Scandi Crime show of Star Wars.

I can get why some might put off by that, and entirely fair enough. If you’re tuning in expecting Star Wars By The Numbers? Andor could leave you completely cold.

But I argue this is exactly what Disney needed. It’s well made, scripted and acted. Whilst fairly little happens in any given scene, there is a slowly ramping up tension to it. I feel invested in it.

Will Andor survive the heist? Yes of course he will. He’s got 19 more episodes and Rogue One to go before he gets all ded. Will the heist be successful? Probably. Perhaps not entirely successful, and I’m expecting something to go awry with the escape side of it. Will his entire crew survive? I’d…..genuinely be surprised if not everyone makes it. The True Believer I reckon is toast myself.

But….genuinely who knows? This is largely uncharted territory for Star Wars.

Dakka seems to have universally embraced it. And I’ve not really seen anyone online moaning about it (as opposed to criticism. Even this post is a criticism, albeit a positive one).

Hopefully it’s seeming success will lead to Disney being more willing to take further stylistic risks. To explore what else Star Wars could be. That doesn’t mean “make everything dark and gritty”, for that leads to the woeful state of the DCEU. But to see that Star Wars can carry the same variety of tones as the MCU? That gives me hope.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Nihilistic Necron Lord






If True Believer dies, his book will survive, most likely in the hands of Andor somehow.

 
   
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True that. And his equipment. Which may prove a Chekhov’s Gun?

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






As mentioned earlier, episode 5 is the calm before the storm episode. You know what that means, right? It's time for a round of Death Bingo 2000! Anyone care to play?

Spoiler:
Miss Leadership Skills - She'll survive just for the guilt tripping potential of seeing too many under her command die.

Murder Girl - She's presented as the professional of the group, and I think they'll play it straight and let her do some heavy lifting and make it out alive.

Wanna Live, Get A Shiv - He'll get stuff done and could make it, but at the last moment things go bad and he sacrifices himself for the cause, for the others, and because somebody has to stab those Imperials in the eye.

Manifesto Boy - No chance he doesn't die. He'll be the one who blows it due to feeling the need to do something super unprofessional, in the name of doing good.

Captain Dour - Dies to an overdose of responsibility as he dutifully leads the team through the heist and insists to be the first to take a hit to make something vital happen, like buy them time when the alarm is sounded halfway through loading the credits.

Gone Native, Feeling Good - The turned Imperial remains in command after dutifully, but unsuccessfully, fending off a rebel attack. Gets commended and is set up as a future contact for Cassian, but is secretly suspected by everyone's new favorite ISB agent.

Total body count: 3


 AduroT wrote:
If True Believer dies, his book will survive, most likely in the hands of Andor somehow.


I could see them playing it differently. He'll be a more powerful symbol if people can insert their own beliefs into the martyr's lost manifesto, instead of finding that his crazy scribbling is gibberish. His doodad may make for a good memento for Cassian, though.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

Not gonna lie. Fell asleep probably for 10 minutes. Outside of some of the testing of Andor and just showing how outclassed these rebels by comparing them to an experienced thief it was a snoozer. Though the LT Inspectors mom is a riot.

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

It's pretty odd how polarised this show is - this week's was my favourite episode so far, whereas my mate stopped watching it after about 15 minutes...

I just think the direction, cinematography and writing are all spot on and I am loving this type of Star wars story.

But I also get why people are finding it slow.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Yeah. Though I’d argue it’s pace is a result of deliberate decisions, rather than say, a three part story being stretched to six.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






Honestly I don't think you need to argue anything. The pacing is fine for what it does, namely world building and character development. It's part of what makes the show great to me. It's just that the one thing you can't get around is that many people who watch Star Wars expect a fair amount of pew pew whoosh laser action, and not having to wait for it very long either. They've been well catered to in the past, and it's only logical that such expectations should be widespread and associated with the brand name. It's not that Star Wars was strictly mono-genre before Andor, but the ingredients for Star Wars' successful entries tended to be the same. Andor steps away from that by being a full on spy thriller. For its genre, it does everything right so far (says I). It's just that the genre isn't usually associated with Star Wars, and when it is touched on...

Spoiler:
...it might just be kids under cloaks level, right?


So, I guess I did a bit of arguing of my own there. But you're still not required to do any, alright?

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
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It’s more for those who found it slow, to point out it’s meant to be, rather than the show losing its own plot and filling in as best it can.

I do wonder what those will make of it if they go back and binge? I mean, I think we can all agree we’re expecting a Pay Off next episode. And I can’t see that not being a bit more Star Wars by the Numbers.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Powerful Ushbati






But is it as simple as binging all your troubles away? I don't feel qualified to answer that as I didn't get bored at all, but you'd have to sit through an hour of people talking against a scenic backdrop either way. I mean, maybe I am qualified. I watched Titanic and Pearl Harbor. I don't know if having the lead up to the stuff you expect from the titles cut into episodes would make it worse, but I can tell you for sure that sitting through them in one go while you wait for the good stuff certainly didn't make it better.

On the pay off, in spite of my choice of characterization I should hope there is some Star Wars by the numbers about to happen. I am all in favor of good balance. Don't just throw out the old in favor of the new. Have both and make them mesh. I want to believe that Andor will shine in this regard as well. It's already been established that

Spoiler:
the garrison is only 40 strong and troop quality isn't the greatest. I take that as an announcement that the Stormtroopers there won't be crack shots and we shouldn't expect too much of them, but I'd be (unpleasantly) surprised if they didn't get portrayed to be more professional than they usually are. So far the production crew seems to understand nuance and establishing credible threat quite well, and I hope that understanding extends to Stormtroopers.

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Well, binge could be watching two episodes at a time. So part 5 and 6, watched back to back May get better results than a week apart, where 5 could feel like waffling filler dragging like a seal’s ringpiece to those wanting Star Wars By The Numbers?

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Absolutely nothing happening and yet I find myself as compelled as Martin here:



Just fantastic writing and character dynamics. Absolutely compelling performances have me totally hooked.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yeah. Though I’d argue it’s pace is a result of deliberate decisions, rather than say, a three part story being stretched to six.


Good gods, it is so much better than the mindless filler streaming normally has.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Geifer wrote:
As mentioned earlier, episode 5 is the calm before the storm episode. You know what that means, right? It's time for a round of Death Bingo 2000! Anyone care to play?


Well my guesses would be...

Spoiler:
Because I say so - going down. Leaving only Andor as the link to the boss

Silent but deadly - heroic yet grim death. Gotten zero development, so faceless enough archetype to lose

Bitter about stones - Dies after some kind of cathartic moment

The young hope - survives to meet the seedy nasty side of the rebellion (Saul) and lose faith

By the numbers - I think Disney won't kill the black guy immediately anymore

Lieutenant forever - given enough rope by ISB to hang himself

Total body count: 3


I would hope that the fact the stormtroopers in rogue 1 managed to gun down all the rebels (while still taking casualties), means the Imperials will be a threat and not mooks. I am more tired of the zero peril in the Disney star wars shows than even the kids under cloaks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/06 14:45:21


 
   
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I think it’s also just an inherently interesting time period within Star Wars.

The Clone Wars are now mostly just a memory, and The Empire has, arguably, brought some kind of stability in the aftermath. And we’re just starting to see it tightening it’s grip, such as taking a single shoot-out as an excuse to take over from Corporate Security.

This of course ties in to Leia’s mouthing off to Tarkin about how the more they tighten their grip, the more systems will slip through their fingers.

It’s made it all a bit more gradual. That it wasn’t Corrupt Democracy to Horrific Autocracy in the blink of an eye.

Yet the pressure on the Common Folk is building. People are chaffing under the Imperial Yoke - they just haven’t yet found the strength to stand up for themselves.

Andor is following in the footsteps of Rebels, where we first saw different Rebel Cells start to organise and come together into a more cohesive whole. To go from nipping at the soft spots to a hammer blow victory such as Yavin (where The Emperor revealed his hand, and promptly lost his biggest hitting stick. The toy that fear of which would be his ultimate control).

Hence we see Andor’s adoptive crew feeling a bit….meek, I suppose. A handful of activists, a little help from the inside, and a pretty lofty goal.

Rogue One of course reminded us the Rebellion was undermanned at that period. And brave as they were, heroics can only carry you so far.

We also had the joy of seeing unorthodox, opportunistic tactics the (at least then) rigid Imperial approach were hard pressed against. Best example would be the Hammerhead totalling a pair of Star Destroyers in a risky manoeuvre (and I’m not even sure we explicitly see that ship survive).

And it’s something I feel under explored in Star Wars canon. The death by a million cuts. How the sacrifice and actions of a few could mess up Imperial plans.

The initial MacGuffin is explained in Part 4 (almost called it episode, but need to keep the right context!). Basically, it’s a means by which the wielder could identify fleet movements in a given area. Like a sort of tracking radar thing. Hence the lady from the ISB is so certain it’s theft is a sign of organised shenanigans, so spread out that no-one else has pieced that all together.

Curiously? We don’t even know she’s right. They could all just be random thefts of valuable objects. And so whilst we of course know the Rebellion is organising behind the scenes? She could be on a wild goose chase which, perversely, could be seen as proof there is no such organised rebellion.

I’m bloody loving it!

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Southampton, UK

Well we know Cassian didn't steal the starpath unit as part of any wider resistance - he just nicked it to sell and then sat on it for a while, saving it for a rainy day. Of course nothing says the other thefts aren't co-ordinated, but she's actually wrong about this one.

It's quite well done. I find myself perversely rooting for her because she's trying to do a good job against the odds, albeit for the wrong side. Same with Syril.
   
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I dunno. Cassian knew where it was. And yes he nicked it for monetary gain.

But….what was it doing in a Breaker’s Yard? A place where ships go to be disassembled? And why was seemingly bleeding edge tech in a random, knackered old ship? Especially as, if memory serves, it wasn’t exactly hooked into its systems?

I posit someone else stole it, and stashed it away there for later pick up once the trail had gone cold - or managed to get themself caught/killed before they could move it on.

Now, the motivations of that person remain in question, but she could very well be right.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Southampton, UK

I thought he nicked it from the factory by strolling in as if he was meant to be there (off-screen) like he told Luthen, and stashed it in his little hideout in the breakers yard. I don't think it was actually installed in the wrecked ship - that's just where Cassian kept his stuff that he didn't want his mum to find.
   
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That too is possible. I’ll need to go watch it again, but I’m pretty sure in the ISB it was said the item was pinched elsewhere, then turned up on Terrix?

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Powerful Ushbati






I'll make this post for Death Bingo 2000 and keep it updated if anyone else wants to add their guesses.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Spoiler:
Because I say so - going down. Leaving only Andor as the link to the boss

Silent but deadly - heroic yet grim death. Gotten zero development, so faceless enough archetype to lose

Bitter about stones - Dies after some kind of cathartic moment

The young hope - survives to meet the seedy nasty side of the rebellion (Saul) and lose faith

By the numbers - I think Disney won't kill the black guy immediately anymore

Lieutenant forever - given enough rope by ISB to hang himself

Total body count: 3


 Geifer wrote:
Spoiler:
Miss Leadership Skills - She'll survive just for the guilt tripping potential of seeing too many under her command die.

Murder Girl - She's presented as the professional of the group, and I think they'll play it straight and let her do some heavy lifting and make it out alive.

Wanna Live, Get A Shiv - He'll get stuff done and could make it, but at the last moment things go bad and he sacrifices himself for the cause, for the others, and because somebody has to stab those Imperials in the eye.

Manifesto Boy - No chance he doesn't die. He'll be the one who blows it due to feeling the need to do something super unprofessional, in the name of doing good.

Captain Dour - Dies to an overdose of responsibility as he dutifully leads the team through the heist and insists to be the first to take a hit to make something vital happen, like buy them time when the alarm is sounded halfway through loading the credits.

Gone Native, Feeling Good - The turned Imperial remains in command after dutifully, but unsuccessfully, fending off a rebel attack. Gets commended and is set up as a future contact for Cassian, but is secretly suspected by everyone's new favorite ISB agent.

Total body count: 3

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
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Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Could the black box mcguffin come from the downed ship on his homeworld, and just kept safe as a “just in case” thing until needed?

   
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I dunno. The impression the ISB gave was this was new fangled tech - hence it’s high value.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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 Nevelon wrote:
Could the black box mcguffin come from the downed ship on his homeworld, and just kept safe as a “just in case” thing until needed?


That's sort of what I assume personally, since its the most likely means of making the flashbacks relevant to the present but there's not really a firm connection outside of storytelling tropes.
   
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I hope everyone is remembering to rewatch the last episode of Andor ready for tomorrow’s episode

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Powerful Ushbati






"Andor", hmm? "Andor". Let me check what's playing. "Star Wars: The Clone Wars". That doesn't look like what you said. Are you sure you spelled it right?

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Why not both!

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I hope everyone is remembering to rewatch the last episode of Andor ready for tomorrow’s episode
The episode where they spent most of the runtime walking to where the next episode will take place? What's there to forget, exactly?

I think I may skip Andor for 2 weeks at a time, and then catch up with all three of each arc. It makes the pacing actually work.

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Another excellent episode.

Spoiler:
The overall moodiness remains, with even the shoot out being subdued, and again actually pretty realistic as far as Star Wars goes.

Good Guy casualties were heavier than expected, especially poor True Believer. My overall prediction about his manifesto was correct though.

Very interested to see the next arc however.

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H.B.M.C, 27 July 2022. Suddenly the Chaos Codex doesn't seem so bad.

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Powerful Ushbati






That was fun.

Spoiler:
It's refreshing to see people who stand in the open get shot, which is to say all people, not just Imperials. Also Imperials hitting stuff and all that. Quite good.

Loose cargo is the killer. Workplace safety, people! Come on, there's a manual and training courses!

Also fireworks! Everyone loves fireworks! Yay!

On a sad note, Death Bingo 2000 doesn't have a winner. We gave the crew too much credit.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
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Made in gb
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We also got a solid character moment for Cassian.

Spoiler:
Shoots the guy who suggested “sod it, let’s just split the loot then go our separate ways”.

Whilst Cassian seemingly wants out? He only wants his agreed price - nothing more, nothing less. He even offers to buy the Doctor’s shuttle, for more than market value.

So he has integrity and morals - he just isn’t in it for the Rebellion. Yet. Of course True Believer’s manifesto is going to play into changing his mind.

And massive, massive props for having both sides display competency. Both reasonably good shots. Both decent ruthless (True Believer was one I thought might crumble in the face of action, I was wrong)


Now for a general observation for those on the fence. As HBMC mentioned, this might play better binged. But, being so far split into two arcs of three episodes? Give the first three a watch. It’s pretty much self contained, but does lead into the next.

If you enjoy the tone, you’re good to go on the rest. If the tone just isn’t Star Wars to you, or you otherwise don’t enjoy it? You still get a largely self contained tale.

I think that might be the secret to its overall success. It’s….oddly accessible. When look as distinct tale, it’s pretty digestible and doesn’t, for my money, outstay it’s welcome. Each episode when viewed as part of a Three Act Story makes more sense than “this is episode 5 of 12 and not much has happened” in terms of pacing.

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