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Hello i collect dark eldar and i want to know how do you kill a farseer and an avatar here is my army:
Archon
10 Trueborns
10 Bloodbrides
10kabalite
10 wyches
10 hellions
2 raiders

By giving the Archon a huskblade and throwing him at the farseer. In terms of the Avatar, just shoot it.

maybe also take lady malys with. her immunity to psychic powers can help nullify that farseers pre combat tricks. treat the avatar like any MC, and just splinter rifle/cannon him to the ground. otherwise the same can work on the farseer. otherwise, vect is a decent eldar killer, since he hits and wounds on 3's, and rerolls both. that can also help take on the avatar if you need it.

the cruisible of malediction is great against Eldar Seer Coucils. Shoot it off near them and a little less than half will go insane and be removed from play. You might even get the Farseer with a little luck.

Flesh Guantlests are posioned weapons and area also instantkill. Against a farseer you will wound on 4+ and reroll to wound. Elrad you will wound on 4+. The avatar you will wound on 4+.

The avatar also cannot overkill a Haemi(they have T4) Its still probably better to plan to shoot the thing down though.

Overall its not nearly as useful as some sort of power weapon, but a haemi with these two items is an option against Eldar HQs


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bobby2000 wrote:
Archon
10 Trueborns
10 Bloodbrides
10kabalite
10 wyches
10 hellions
2 raiders

really you have 20 warriors and 20 wyches. so you could run 3 squads of each. having a full unit is not always a good thing. Trueborn Warriors are for instance only really better because of their weapon choices and taking smaller units might be helpful. Personally I dont run bloodbrides, nor would I unless I really wanted 3 shardnets in a 9man squad. If you are very model limited then its important to know what special weapons you have. I might suggest having a squad of 5 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons and a few shard carbines would be nice while breaking up the rest of your warriors with blasters and splinter rifles would be good.

In any event, get a haemi, they can be useful elsewhere too.
More raiders might be good as would be a venom or two(the model might be released next month)

If the eldar is putting fortune on the avatar it can be a tough nut to crack. The trick is to kill the farseer first then the avatar is easier.

For a murder HQ, Vect will kill eldar dead. Re rolling hits and wounds is brutal

labmouse42 wrote:
For a murder HQ, Vect will kill eldar dead. Re rolling hits and wounds is brutal

but the avatar will overkill vect. even a 2++ is not invincible and that is only on the 1st wound, after that he has a 6++.

Bloodbrides with shardnets can reduce the avatar to 1 attack and then have ICs with a clone field or that have T4 if you want to get in combat with him.

Firstly I have never faced an Eldar army so this is all just conjecture.

The Avatar seems like the easier of the 2, mass poisoned shots should do the trick. I like to deliver splinter fire from Venoms, just 2 will crank out 12 shots. Even an Agonizer can mess with an Avatar I'd imagine.

As for the FS and Locks, I would try to ID them by trying to sneak in a darklight wound or anything S6 and up. The Shattershard will also give them problems.

Honestly, your army is a lot more points-efficient so you can just drag the Eldar down with numbers (rare for a DE army). The Avatar will go down to volume of poisoned fire- hit him with the warriors' shooting and avoid CC. The Farseer is really weak in CC, and best handled there. Hit him with a unit of wyches. Pretty simple, really.

Savnock wrote:Honestly, your army is a lot more points-efficient so you can just drag the Eldar down with numbers (rare for a DE army). The Avatar will go down to volume of poisoned fire- hit him with the warriors' shooting and avoid CC. The Farseer is really weak in CC, and best handled there. Hit him with a unit of wyches. Pretty simple, really.

The Farseer will be within 6" of the Avatar.
How you CC one, while avoiding the other? The Avatar will get you next turn.
And if you spend a few turns pouring fire into the Avatar re-rollable saves... then he's done his job perfectly!

Proberly best to simply pop any trasport the seer is riding in (if he is)
Then take down whatever unit hes hiding in with massed fire, preferably several missile strikes, before going to work on the avatar. Even with fortune, most Eldar infantry do not have a good save so it'll be alot quicker than going directly for the Avatar (especially with missiles)

Another option is to take out supporting units of the Avatar, or otherwise take them with wyches, while at the same time sending in an Archon with a clone field to take on the Avatar.


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When DE first came out i though, ah bugger... all that poisen, there goes my wraithguard...

But looking at it... those venoms are only ever going to get one round of shooting before a dozen scatter lasers open up, wrecking it and the squad inside.

As for your pain tokens, best just ignore them as every ranged heavy weapon we have is S6+

dayve110 wrote:

Savnock wrote:Honestly, your army is a lot more points-efficient so you can just drag the Eldar down with numbers (rare for a DE army). The Avatar will go down to volume of poisoned fire- hit him with the warriors' shooting and avoid CC. The Farseer is really weak in CC, and best handled there. Hit him with a unit of wyches. Pretty simple, really.

The Farseer will be within 6" of the Avatar.
How you CC one, while avoiding the other? The Avatar will get you next turn.
And if you spend a few turns pouring fire into the Avatar re-rollable saves... then he's done his job perfectly!

I take it you haven't played against DE with your Eldar yet.

How to take down the Avatar when it's within 6" of a Farseer? Shoot it. It will not take "a few turns" to shoot him down: Even with a re-roll, his 4+ will not get him through even a single turn of being rapid-fired by just two DE kabalite squads or perhaps kabalites and a venom.

Each rapid-firing kabalite squad (or Hellions, Trueborn etc.) gets 20 shots, 13.2 hit, 6.6 wound, approx. 2 get through 4+ armor with re-roll. Two squads will finish him off easily.

As for the Farseer, even if the Avatar did somehow live through a turn of DE shooting the Farseer is easily worth the wych squad that assassinated him.

Look dayve110, I play Mechdar and have done so through 3 editions. We're at the bottom of the points-efficiency trough due to an old codex. DE can field more stuff than we can right now, and most of it is tooled to take down monstrous creatures with shooting. The Avatar is dead meat versus any halfway-decent DE player because he's the lynchpin of all nearby Eldar infantry.

Proberly best to simply pop any trasport the seer is riding in (if he is)
Then take down whatever unit hes hiding in with massed fire, preferably several missile strikes, before going to work on the avatar. Even with fortune, most Eldar infantry do not have a good save so it'll be alot quicker than going directly for the Avatar (especially with missiles)

Unless that Farseer is in a dedicated CC unit, the DE will own them in CC. Better to shoot the Avatar as you close, then CC the Faseer and shoot the Avatar in the same round.

Another option is to take out supporting units of the Avatar, or otherwise take them with wyches, while at the same time sending in an Archon with a clone field to take on the Avatar.

No. Do not fight the Avatar. Shoot him. Shoot the fighty ones, fight the shooty ones. Not that difficult, really.

When DE first came out i though, ah bugger... all that poisen, there goes my wraithguard...

But looking at it... those venoms are only ever going to get one round of shooting before a dozen scatter lasers open up, wrecking it and the squad inside.

The problem being, again, that DE can field more vehicles, more troops and more shots than Eldar can due to better points-efficiency. Also, their vehicles shoot better on the move than Eldar thanks to the Aerial Assault rule. They can shoot far more weapons than the Eldar while moving just as fast. As for Wraithguard, each one of them costs as much as 3.5 kabalites, and those kabalites outrange and outshoot the Wraithguard.

As for your pain tokens, best just ignore them as every ranged heavy weapon we have is S6+

First sensible thing you've said. Yes, S6 shooting is your friend versus DE (and one of the big strengths of Eldar these days in general). But relying only on that will not help you: you have to stay out of CC, becuase the DE will wreck you there as it's harder to deny them FNP.

But since the OP was asking how to play his DE against Eldar, here's the reverse of that advice: pop the transports and beat face in CC, but only after you've neutralized the Avatar (becuase then you can break your opponents in CC and run them down with your superior initiative). Also neutralize any S6 shooting right off the bat, either by shooting skimmers to keep them shaken or by tying warwalkers up with Haywire-grenade-armed wyches/bloodbrides.

OP, don't listen to people trying to e-peen you with their own army. As an Eldar player I tell you you've got the advantage. You need to learn which targets to take down first with shooting during the 1-2 turns that you are closing on them, then which ones to assault right away. Here, that answer is: Shoot the avatar dead and shake the vehicles to keep them from firing. Then mash the Farseer (after removing him from his ride if needed) and finish off the vehicles. Then target other troops. If the fight is difficult for you, step back and consider whether you did things in the right order and with the right tools.

Hope that helps. Man, the "advice" on the Tactics forum is bad these days.

First of all, bloodbrides aren't that good, so don't expect to kill them with those, or the wyches, nessesarily. Edit, never mind. These aren't marines you're up against. I forget sometimes. Wyches could definitely work

Try incubi with an archon thrown in there. Huskblades are great for those multi-wound models, while agonisers can be good too. But since the agoniser provides no advantage against eldar, I'd go for the huskblade.

Wyches S3 may seen lame, but when you are throwing 40+ attacks down range... they tend to rock. Wyches are decent against T4, bu absolutely slaughter against T3. Get them regardless.

Savnock wrote:I take it you haven't played against DE with your Eldar yet.

Think again.

Savnock wrote:How to take down the Avatar when it's within 6" of a Farseer? Shoot it. It will not take "a few turns" to shoot him down: Even with a re-roll, his 4+ will not get him through even a single turn of being rapid-fired by just two DE kabalite squads or perhaps kabalites and a venom.

Each rapid-firing kabalite squad (or Hellions, Trueborn etc.) gets 20 shots, 13.2 hit, 6.6 wound, approx. 2 get through 4+ armor with re-roll. Two squads will finish him off easily.

Check your figures again.
20 shots at BS4 = 13.3 hits
13.3 hits = 6.7 wounds

Then it's onto the save, the Avatar has a 3+/4++ so unless kabalite squads (or hellions, trueborn etc) are all packing AP3 rapid firing weapons hes getting his 3+ save.

6.7 wounds = 0.7 wounds (with 3+ re-rollable)

So i fail to see how two squads will finish him off easy unless they are toting lances/blasters, each shot causing 0.14 wounds as opposed to 20 poisoned shots causing half that.

Savnock wrote:Look dayve110, I play Mechdar and have done so through 3 editions. We're at the bottom of the points-efficiency trough due to an old codex. DE can field more stuff than we can right now, and most of it is tooled to take down monstrous creatures with shooting. The Avatar is dead meat versus any halfway-decent DE player because he's the lynchpin of all nearby Eldar infantry.

Near the bottom, i'll agree. I've also been running Eldar through 3 editions (not always mech, i've experimented with foot and mixed with the brief sorties into other armies) and DE can field more stuff, but looking at the lists as a whole it seems DE will tear through many Eldar units such as anything Wraith based, Avatars, small elite units. However the Eldar codex has just as much chance given at least the same amount of player skill. S6 spam will of course go a long way to bringing down all those AV10 vehicles and decimating all the T3 troops held within but as 2 seperate wholes the two armies seem to boil down to whoever gets the first turn and has a slightly higher sence of target priority and carefull positioning.

Savnock wrote:Unless that Farseer is in a dedicated CC unit, the DE will own them in CC. Better to shoot the Avatar as you close, then CC the Faseer and shoot the Avatar in the same round.

Even if the Farseer is in a dedicated CC unit the DE close combat units should win through anyway. It's just alot easier to spam several missile strikes and eliminate the Seer that way before targetting the Avatar. With Fortune gone he becomes a much easier target to shoot at, or assault.

Savnock wrote:No. Do not fight the Avatar. Shoot him. Shoot the fighty ones, fight the shooty ones. Not that difficult, really.

Thats a basic strategy that doesn't always pan out. In some situations its better to shoot the shooty ones and fight the fighty ones. It all depends on your list.
And a common tactic is taking down the Avatar is in assault, getting a multicharge off and wiping a unit of 10 guaridians/Dires nearby while the Avatar causes what? 1 wound on wyches? maybe 2? Forcing the Avatar to take 8 saves without Fortune. He's taking 2.7 wounds, add onto that what ever you caused in the Assault of from previous shooting and hes going down.

Savnock wrote:The problem being, again, that DE can field more vehicles, more troops and more shots than Eldar can due to better points-efficiency. Also, their vehicles shoot better on the move than Eldar thanks to the Aerial Assault rule. They can shoot far more weapons than the Eldar while moving just as fast. As for Wraithguard, each one of them costs as much as 3.5 kabalites, and those kabalites outrange and outshoot the Wraithguard.

points-efficiency doesn't mean all your making it out to be. Better tactics can do more for you than having a few extra models on the board.

Savnock wrote:But since the OP was asking how to play his DE against Eldar, here's the reverse of that advice: pop the transports and beat face in CC, but only after you've neutralized the Avatar (becuase then you can break your opponents in CC and run them down with your superior initiative). Also neutralize any S6 shooting right off the bat, either by shooting skimmers to keep them shaken or by tying warwalkers up with Haywire-grenade-armed wyches/bloodbrides.

OP, don't listen to people trying to e-peen you with their own army. As an Eldar player I tell you you've got the advantage. You need to learn which targets to take down first with shooting during the 1-2 turns that you are closing on them, then which ones to assault right away. Here, that answer is: Shoot the avatar dead and shake the vehicles to keep them from firing. Then mash the Farseer (after removing him from his ride if needed) and finish off the vehicles. Then target other troops. If the fight is difficult for you, step back and consider whether you did things in the right order and with the right tools.

Hope that helps. Man, the "advice" on the Tactics forum is bad these days.

This last part as a whole, i'll agree with. But you cannot boil down the majority of Eldar/DE games to a few simple facts.
In theory, yes this will work, but trying it in-game is another matter and it helps to keep your options open with other ways to win (such as assaulting the Avatar) as when you start the game, anything can happen and at times you will need to do things that you didn't plan for in order to win.

Here's my 2 cents. Note, I don't face Eldar much, but deal with Monstrous Creatures and enemy HQs I wish to assassinate all the time.

Avatar:
-He's slow with a 12" shooting attack. Simply avoid him with your speed and long range fire.
-Take advantage of him as a distraction. If the Eldar player is using Fortune on him, he is not using Fortune elsewhere, so focus your fire on the other threats. If he leaves him without Fortune and there is nothing else more important to kill, go ahead and try to kill him.
-If/when you have to kill him, you can torrent him off the board with enough fire. DE, between splinter rifles and Venoms with splinter cannons can put out huge volumes of fire. Yes, with rerollable saves, only 1 in 9 splinter or 1 in 4 dark lance wounds will stick. Lucky for you, you CAN put out crapload of wounds in a turn if you've built a good DE list.
-Assault is not a great option, due to his high Init and ability to negate FNP and instant-death all of your T3 characters. I only recommend it if he's down to a final wound or so and not Fortune'd, and ideally if you can throw an Initiative 7+ model with a crapload of Venom Blade/Agoniser type hits on him.

Farseer:
-Farseers are "easy" to kill if you can expose them. If they are ever out on their own, you can annihilate them on your leisure through shooting or assault; they cannot survive long against a DE army when exposed.
-If in a unit, he's an IC so he can be singled out in assault and MUST try to get into base contact if possible (moving other models in unit out of the way, as per latest BRB faq). Then it's just a matter of being able to put 6+ (or 12+ if Fortune'd) wounds on a T3 model. Not terribly hard to do for something like Wyches or Wracks, especially if you have an assault HQ in the mix like a succubus or archon.
-If embedded in a seer council or something along those lines, you can torrent them down, even with Fortune. A single Venom with twin splinter cannons should, on average, kill a fortune'd warlock per turn. Multiply by # of Venoms in your army and whittle them down. Wyches/Bloodbrides are good at dealing with the Seer Council in assault as well, so send them in when the numbers get down and focus on the Farseer.

dayve110 wrote:

The Farseer will be within 6" of the Avatar.
How you CC one, while avoiding the other? The Avatar will get you next turn.
And if you spend a few turns pouring fire into the Avatar re-rollable saves... then he's done his job perfectly!

Proberly best to simply pop any trasport the seer is riding in (if he is)
Then take down whatever unit hes hiding in with massed fire, preferably several missile strikes, before going to work on the avatar. Even with fortune, most Eldar infantry do not have a good save so it'll be alot quicker than going directly for the Avatar (especially with missiles)

Another option is to take out supporting units of the Avatar, or otherwise take them with wyches, while at the same time sending in an Archon with a clone field to take on the Avatar.

If the Farseer is wasting his fortunes on the Avatar I say let him. Use the rest of your anti infantry to down the rest of the army. I would much rather kill banshees than the avatar. If he doesnt put fortune on the avatar then move a few venomes into line of sight and blast away. With their range and move they should always be able to get a line on him and if you shoot him a few times he will eventually go down. If he is really a problem then yes blast away with splinter weapons. Missiles are not going to help much(DE missiles are much better against hordes).

Wyches alone would be alright against an avatar if they have shardnets. Get him down to 2 attacks and even with WS10, Str6 he is killing a little more than half a wych a turn. Even with an agonizer or posioned blade the wyches are unlikely to finish him, but the avatar is going nowhere.