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I was wondering: that in a doomsday scenario where Tyranids engulfed the entire galaxy, how would the Chaos God's be affected? Could Tyranids possibly get into the Warp and maybe even attack (and somehow, kill?) the Chaos God's themselves? I know that Tyranid Technology for FTL travel relies on the Narvhal, which is not a entity in the warp, and shadow in the warp means they are one of the few races that cannt be affected by the warp. On that note, because of Shadow in the Warp, could a Tyranid ever be possesed by a Daemon?

Back on topic, the only way I can see the Tyranids getting into the Warp itself is through warpstorms like the Eye of Terror or the Maelstorm, or by breeding some kind of Nid that could access the warp.

So, are there awnsers to these questions that I ask?

Tyranids are very much warp-oriented. While they don't use it for travel, they can use it in battle,if I'm not horribly mistaken. Also, the Shadow in the warp does not mean they cannot be affected by the warp, it simply means they can thoroughly screw up long-distance communication and warp travel.

But yes, the Chaos gods would be very much weakened or even killed if the Tyranids devoured all life in our galaxy, seeing as the emotions humans and the other races feel and the acts they commit are the main source of their power.

^^^^ I'm with stupid.

TheLinguist wrote:Tyranids are very much warp-oriented. While they don't use it for travel, they can use it in battle,if I'm not horribly mistaken. Also, the Shadow in the warp does not mean they cannot be affected by the warp, it simply means they can thoroughly screw up long-distance communication and warp travel.

But yes, the Chaos gods would be very much weakened or even killed if the Tyranids devoured all life in our galaxy, seeing as the emotions humans and the other races feel and the acts they commit are the main source of their power.

The Tyranids psychic abilities are small portions of the hivemind's power, not so much the warp.

Tyranids cannot be posessed by daemons as long as they are in large numbers as the hivemind smothers out any warp entities or powers.

TheLinguist wrote:Tyranids are very much warp-oriented. While they don't use it for travel, they can use it in battle,if I'm not horribly mistaken. Also, the Shadow in the warp does not mean they cannot be affected by the warp, it simply means they can thoroughly screw up long-distance communication and warp travel.

But yes, the Chaos gods would be very much weakened or even killed if the Tyranids devoured all life in our galaxy, seeing as the emotions humans and the other races feel and the acts they commit are the main source of their power.

Didn't think about if the Chaos God's would die without population to feed them with emotions.

But Tyranid Psykers don't harness the Warp for thier powers, they use the power of the Hivemind to use those powers.

Yeah they got ret conned.

Would the Tyranids even bother with the Chaos Gods? They arnt from my understanding a physical "thing" so what would they gain? They attack worlds to gather biomass to reproduce and then eat other worlds, surely it would just be a sort of balance? The two would just exist? Unless the Gods can somehow sever the connection between some Tyranids and the hivemind to possess them, then they wil probably continue to fight.

If the Tyranids ever get to the point where they begin to pose a serious threat to the Chaos gods powers I cannot imagine that the gods would simply let them continue. They'd prolly end up increasing the number of daemonic invasions and if things got truly dire send all of the Daemon Primarchs, Daemons Princes and everything else that they possibly could at the Tyranids, which undoubtedly would be able to best them.

Azure wrote:If the Tyranids ever get to the point where they begin to pose a serious threat to the Chaos gods powers I cannot imagine that the gods would simply let them continue. They'd prolly end up increasing the number of daemonic invasions and if things got truly dire send all of the Daemon Primarchs, Daemons Princes and everything else that they possibly could at the Tyranids, which undoubtedly would be able to best them.

But the shadow in the warp smothers warp powers, leaving chaos and its fallowers weakened.

Weakened yes, but the sheer power both physical and psykic, should be able to overcome the Tyranids non-the-less. It'd be nine Legions, minus whoever has died and been deemed unworthy to come back, coupled with their Primarchs, a host of the greatest daemons in existence leading their lesser minions into battle, and not of just one god but all four. This sort of Legion would be armed with the murderous fury of Khorne, the virulent plagues of Nurgle (which definitely would have impact on the 'Nids), and the hordes of Slaneeshi followers who are only embroiled by the art of war. And to make all of this even more deadly, the changing ways of Tzeentch back this all up which could make any aspect of this army all the deadlier (or weaker depending on his whims, though honestly it'd be against his best interest to inhibit this army in anyway).

And even if the Shadow is able to beat off the warp power, Khorne is still good to go as he hates Psykers, his legions any ways.

my take on it

the chaos gods will unite if there is any "true" threat to them, they forsaw that the Big E would become a threat and combined to bring him down.

they have not done so against the tyranids, this leads me to believe they are not even a threat , maybe the gods know something about them we dont?

They die off or hibernate during winter?

Azure wrote:If the Tyranids ever get to the point where they begin to pose a serious threat to the Chaos gods powers I cannot imagine that the gods would simply let them continue. They'd prolly end up increasing the number of daemonic invasions and if things got truly dire send all of the Daemon Primarchs, Daemons Princes and everything else that they possibly could at the Tyranids, which undoubtedly would be able to best them.

The Chaos Gods couldn't even subdue the fledgling Imperium, how are they supposed to destroy the entirety of the Tyranid race when it takes a sacrifice of untold billions and extremely arcane magics to summon a single daemon prince and his cohorts? Not to mention the shadow in the warp deprives Chaos gods of the souls lost to Tyranids, and prevents them from summoning afaik

Retribution wrote:

The Chaos Gods couldn't even subdue the fledgling Imperium, how are they supposed to destroy the entirety of the Tyranid race when it takes a sacrifice of untold billions and extremely arcane magics to summon a single daemon prince and his cohorts? Not to mention the shadow in the warp deprives Chaos gods of the souls lost to Tyranids, and prevents them from summoning afaik

I'm curious as to what makes you say they could not subdue the Imperium, and also why precisely they'd want to. It seems to me that the larger that thing gets, the more corrupt it's bound to be and therefore even better for them, though they may not be so obviously involved with everything.

Azure wrote:

Retribution wrote:

The Chaos Gods couldn't even subdue the fledgling Imperium, how are they supposed to destroy the entirety of the Tyranid race when it takes a sacrifice of untold billions and extremely arcane magics to summon a single daemon prince and his cohorts? Not to mention the shadow in the warp deprives Chaos gods of the souls lost to Tyranids, and prevents them from summoning afaik

I'm curious as to what makes you say they could not subdue the Imperium, and also why precisely they'd want to. It seems to me that the larger that thing gets, the more corrupt it's bound to be and therefore even better for them, though they may not be so obviously involved with everything.

Horus Heresy; unless you want to play Tzeentch and say "haha, we lost...because we wanted to "

The way I read the fluff the hive mind in a way is a warp entity itself. Thought even in the warp its presence is alien. It is the combined psykic might of untold little bugs, there presence in the warp makes the hive mind, just like peoples souls presence in the warp makes chaos. The nids draw there powers from the warp, just not in a fathomable way to anyone of us (as per the codex). The shadow in the warp is there growing alien presence there, they slowly consume the warp in the same way they consume the material galaxy.

If they eat everyone and everything in the material plane... what would be left in the warp but one massive shadow of the hive mind itself?

Just my opinion... take it or leave it.

We have to remember the chaos guys are just amalgams of emotions more akin to giant warp storms. If the agents of those storms die (ie humanity) then the warp storms themselves will dissipate. This is the default setting as it were, a calm warp side before it became churned up by human and eldar emotions.

Of course Gork and Mork will remain...because you can'
t keep a good ork down.

Laughing God wrote:The way I read the fluff the hive mind in a way is a warp entity itself. Thought even in the warp its presence is alien. It is the combined psykic might of untold little bugs, there presence in the warp makes the hive mind, just like peoples souls presence in the warp makes chaos. The nids draw there powers from the warp, just not in a fathomable way to anyone of us (as per the codex). The shadow in the warp is there growing alien presence there, they slowly consume the warp in the same way they consume the material galaxy.

If they eat everyone and everything in the material plane... what would be left in the warp but one massive shadow of the hive mind itself?

Just my opinion... take it or leave it.

The problem with this idea is the fact that they aren't native to the Milky Way, and, as far as we know, the Warp is exclusive to our galaxy

another dimention linked locally to the milky way?
I dont see why not... the real universe throws out some strange stuff

Retribution wrote:

Laughing God wrote:The way I read the fluff the hive mind in a way is a warp entity itself. Thought even in the warp its presence is alien. It is the combined psykic might of untold little bugs, there presence in the warp makes the hive mind, just like peoples souls presence in the warp makes chaos. The nids draw there powers from the warp, just not in a fathomable way to anyone of us (as per the codex). The shadow in the warp is there growing alien presence there, they slowly consume the warp in the same way they consume the material galaxy.

If they eat everyone and everything in the material plane... what would be left in the warp but one massive shadow of the hive mind itself?

Just my opinion... take it or leave it.

The problem with this idea is the fact that they aren't native to the Milky Way, and, as far as we know, the Warp is exclusive to our galaxy

It doesnt say wether it is or not in fluff. If it is another dimension just overlapping our I dont see why it would span all of space. The fact that Nids are from another galaxy is a perfect explaination for there unusual presence they make in the warp.

There's definitely no reason for the warp to only be contained to the Milky Way. The definitely use the warp for their psychic powers, just, as said, not in a way that is understandable to humans.

Humans themselves don't even really understand the warp, so it's not inconceivable for a completely alien race like the Tyranids to interact with it in a way they don't understand.

The Shadow in the Warp is further proof that they interact with the warp. It's their combined psychic signature smothering all other psychic signatures, which is why is blocks psychic communications and drives psykers insane and/or kills them.

-Loki- wrote:There's definitely no reason for the warp to only be contained to the Milky Way. The definitely use the warp for their psychic powers, just, as said, not in a way that is understandable to humans.

Humans themselves don't even really understand the warp, so it's not inconceivable for a completely alien race like the Tyranids to interact with it in a way they don't understand.

The Shadow in the Warp is further proof that they interact with the warp. It's their combined psychic signature smothering all other psychic signatures, which is why is blocks psychic communications and drives psykers insane and/or kills them.

QFT

Also if my OPINION is right... they would devour the chaos in the warp just like they devour the material plane.

If chaos wiped out humans, they would be destroying themselves, due to losing the emotions that they absorb for sustenance. However the chaos gods themselves are not always at war, uneasy and treacherous alliances, bargains and pacts are made whenever it suits them, so they could probably unite, manifest a metric gaktonne of daemons and remove the nid threat, but I don't think that they feel the need to just yet.

As for Gork & Mork, well Gork will krump them with his brutal cunning, and Mork will krump them with his cunning brutality!

GW has already stated the only power in the universe able to stand up to the hive minds power would be the entirity of the ork race banding together, which would never happen. The orks will be picked off piecemail just like everyone else.

Orock wrote:GW has already stated the only power in the universe able to stand up to the hive minds power would be the entirity of the ork race banding together, which would never happen. The orks will be picked off piecemail just like everyone else.

Wait?? what? when did they do that??

Please provide a ref as i want to reeeaaadddd!!

Im of the firm opinion that Tyranids are some device left by the old ones and that the hive mind is some kind of warp creature or entity created by the old ones perhaps even an actual surviving member of there race ?.
I view the Tyranids as a kind of reset failsafe for creation for when the old ones think things are getting out of hand and that to balance the warp itd be easier to just wipe the slate clean and start again ?.
And judging by the way GW used the Tyranids to eat up the Squats perhaps they agree ... ? hehe.

(I haven't been keeping up with most 40K fluff for several years now, so feel free to correct me on any of this).

As far as the thinking that "the gods would destroy the Nids if they really posed a threat," it could be that they're so unfathomably alien that even the Chaos Gods can't comprehend their thinking or behavior, or know how far the Tyranid race really extends; it'd be like trying to read the 'mind' of a coral reef, inside an ocean that's infinitely large.

Also, I think the actual size of the Tyranid 'race' has never been determined; they were called Tyranids because the planet Tyran was where they were first encountered, but no one knows if they even originated inside this galaxy; they might be the oldest existing lifeform in the entire universe for all we know. Thus it's possible that they outnumber all other known races, including the forces of Chaos. And every world they consume increases the overall mass of the Hive fleet.

Personally I think that a race that perfected space travel but skipped fire, the wheel, and gunpowder has to be pretty damn clever, and probably older than dirt.


*shrug* Or, maybe the CGs know everything there is to know about 'Nids and are just sitting back for now and enjoying the show. And like I said, feel free to correct me on anything.

Let's not forget that the Shadow in the Warp isn't really a shadow in the sense that it's a field of null activity; it's a field of disruption caused by the sheer volume of communication between members of the hivemind. This means that while it obscures the Astronomican and makes it difficult for human psykers to operate, powerful warp-entities would still be able to manifest if they so chose. I don't think we have sufficient knowledge of the mechanics involved to truly discern why the Chaos Gods haven't acted against the Tyranids yet; perhaps they wish to wait for the Tyranids to sufficiently weaken the Imperium so that they can strike and vanquish both foes.

With regards to Chaos' failure to topple the Imperium during the Horus Heresy, let's not forget that the Emperor was at the height of His power and influence and Chaos didn't hold near as much sway amongst humanity at this point.

Any sufficiently powerful warp entity has to be summoned and sustained while in the material realm, they can't exactly cross-over whenever and wherever they want

Boba Fex wrote:Also, I think the actual size of the Tyranid 'race' has never been determined; they were called Tyranids because the planet Tyran was where they were first encountered, but no one knows if they even originated inside this galaxy; they might be the oldest existing lifeform in the entire universe for all we know. Thus it's possible that they outnumber all other known races, including the forces of Chaos. And every world they consume increases the overall mass of the Hive fleet.

Personally I think that a race that perfected space travel but skipped fire, the wheel, and gunpowder has to be pretty damn clever, and probably older than dirt.


*shrug* Or, maybe the CGs know everything there is to know about 'Nids and are just sitting back for now and enjoying the show. And like I said, feel free to correct me on anything.

The 5th edition codex leaves no doubt about it. It makes several solid statements about them not being from the Milky Way, and have crossed from another galaxy. It also makes some claims that they have devoured many galaxies, and gives them other names they they were known by in other galaxies. It's not really a grey area in their fluff.

Considering the amount of time for anything to cross the galactic void at sub-light speed, then considering doing this many times before reaching the Milky Way and the time it took to devour the galaxies it passed, they're older than even the Milky Ways Old Ones. Maybe not the oldest race in the universe, but older than anything in the Milky Way.

Numbers aren't something you can count with the Tyranid race though, since the majority of the ground forces are reduced to raw biomass after a world is consumed, and they spend more time in transit than they do consuming a world.