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hello people i collect dark eldar and my friend collects eldar and he has 1 wave serpent and 2 falcons i was just wondering how to destory them with my army:
Archon
10 kabalites
10 wyches
10 kabalite trueborns
10 hekatirx bloodbrides
5 hellions
5 hellions
2 raiders







thanks

Lance, Lances on the raiders, lances on Kabalites, blast pistols. and if you get desperate, haywire grenades on the wyches.

Step #1: Buy three ravagers. Equip them with three dark lances each.

Step #2: Buy another raider.

Step #3: Acquire 2 more trueborn.

Step #4: Create three units of four (4 each) trueborn, each equipped with a blaster.

Step #5: Put those three units of trueborn into the three raiders.

Step #6: Convert or Counts as your Archon as Baron Sathonyx to gain the +1 to go first advantage.

Step #7: Insert two troop choices at your pleasure.

You now have 12 dark lances and 12 blasters; or 24 STR8 AP2 lance weapons. His skimmer army will crumble.

lances are not as reliable as everyone thinks. They are great for stopping movement or shooting, but they destroy things alot less than most other AT weapons.

On the other side, Haywires are not for desparation tactics, they are a very good addition to our much needed anti-tank abilities. Yes, depending on points cost, we can field a plethora of Dark Lances, but other than Ravagers, nothing usually carries more than two, and most of the things that carry two (Trueborn, Scourges) are much better suited to other tasks. However, a 10 man wych squad with Haywire grenades is often very scary to both tanks and infantry, as they can reliably counter both, and have the speed to get to where you want them to hit.

It is not that the Darklight weapons are super awsome, but it is more that you do not have any other choice when it comes to anti-tank guns.

Especially against another fast army, you are going to need as many darklances as you can get your hands on. Fast transports with either be out of range of the blasters, out of range of assaulting wyches, or you can only hit them on a 6. the haywire grenades are there to bust up a parking lot, not too take out speeding skimmers.

What other options are there for ant-tank?


-Heat Lance? a decent gun, but it does not come on any good (cheap) units.

-Haywire Launcher? same as the above, okay gun on not so good units.

-Void lance/mine? too bad that the ravager does slightly more damage for a much lower cost.

The ONLY other options are a few one shot weapons/missiles, and they are all terrible anti-tank options.


sooo....yeah, Take more Lances/blasters....it is your only choice.

ravagers and raiders with lots and lots of dark lances are the best way.
Trueborn with blasters it the next best way

If its just a tank and not a transport with something in it then you can try scourges with heat lances who may or may not be deep striking.
go for rear armor and try to get within 9" With any luck you will keep it from shooting at least and with a little more you will get to something more vital.
Dont try it against a transport, because you are going to get shot by whatever is inside on the next turn.

5 scourges with 2 heat lances comes to 134 points. About the same as a kitted out fire prism which if you get behind you should be able to kill, perhaps in 2 rounds of shooting after the first round stuns or imbolizes it.

Exergy wrote:ravagers and raiders with lots and lots of dark lances are the best way.
Trueborn with blasters it the next best way

If its just a tank and not a transport with something in it then you can try scourges with heat lances who may or may not be deep striking.
go for rear armor and try to get within 9" With any luck you will keep it from shooting at least and with a little more you will get to something more vital.
Dont try it against a transport, because you are going to get shot by whatever is inside on the next turn.

5 scourges with 2 heat lances comes to 134 points. About the same as a kitted out fire prism which if you get behind you should be able to kill, perhaps in 2 rounds of shooting after the first round stuns or imbolizes it.

The only tanks that have no transport capacity are the FP and NS. Both of those have the range to sit somewhere DS safe.
And giving them holo-fields generally means 2 heat lances won't cut it.
Any Eldar player worth his salt will not leave a unit alone and vulnerable, so i'd stick with your initial suggestions, which are by far better.

dayve110 wrote:
The only tanks that have no transport capacity are the FP and NS. Both of those have the range to sit somewhere DS safe.
And giving them holo-fields generally means 2 heat lances won't cut it.
Any Eldar player worth his salt will not leave a unit alone and vulnerable, so i'd stick with your initial suggestions, which are by far better.

well falcons are not always fielded carrying something and wave serpents sometimes unload their cargo in the course of a game.

I agree its better to just load up on ravagers, but a ravager is not likely to kill an armor 12 tank reliably either. In fact 2 heat lances over 9" from rear armor are 66% as good as one ravager going at AV12. Within 9" they are much against AV12. Which means if for some reason you really really need a Tank dead(as the thread title suggests), scourges are going to be an option.

While an eldar player can keep their tanks DS proof, they might not be able to pick out the best target/avoid the rest of your army and remain DS proof. Having the option to DS scourges might make your opponent deploy or play more favorably. They also dont have to deep strike.

I almost never take my scourges though. stun and move on with DL spam.

Exergy wrote:

dayve110 wrote:
The only tanks that have no transport capacity are the FP and NS. Both of those have the range to sit somewhere DS safe.
And giving them holo-fields generally means 2 heat lances won't cut it.
Any Eldar player worth his salt will not leave a unit alone and vulnerable, so i'd stick with your initial suggestions, which are by far better.

well falcons are not always fielded carrying something and wave serpents sometimes unload their cargo in the course of a game.

I agree its better to just load up on ravagers, but a ravager is not likely to kill an armor 12 tank reliably either. In fact 2 heat lances over 9" from rear armor are 66% as good as one ravager going at AV12. Within 9" they are much against AV12. Which means if for some reason you really really need a Tank dead(as the thread title suggests), scourges are going to be an option.

While an eldar player can keep their tanks DS proof, they might not be able to pick out the best target/avoid the rest of your army and remain DS proof. Having the option to DS scourges might make your opponent deploy or play more favorably. They also dont have to deep strike.

I almost never take my scourges though. stun and move on with DL spam.

A Falcon not carrying anything is waste of points, your paying for a troop carrying capacity your not using.
Generally, with one DS unit, theres almost no threat.
Maybe loosing a tank, if you roll high enough, if you hit, if you land on target... isn't too big a deal, i'd be more worried about more dark lances.

Dashofpepper wrote:Step #1: Buy three ravagers. Equip them with three dark lances each.

Step #2: Buy another raider.

Step #3: Acquire 2 more trueborn.

Step #4: Create three units of four (4 each) trueborn, each equipped with a blaster.

Step #5: Put those three units of trueborn into the three raiders.

Step #6: Convert or Counts as your Archon as Baron Sathonyx to gain the +1 to go first advantage.

Step #7: Insert two troop choices at your pleasure.

You now have 12 dark lances and 12 blasters; or 24 STR8 AP2 lance weapons. His skimmer army will crumble.

Its a good plan.
However, an Eldar player worth his salt will eventually stay in reserve and load up a bunch of scatterlasers.
Massive S6 shots will down paper-thin skimmers with ease.

Out of curiosity how many str 6 shots are typically fielded?

Ashenshugar wrote:Out of curiosity how many str 6 shots are typically fielded?

It depends on the pt size.
But I could squeeze in 77 str 6 shots in a 1500 pt army; if you like, have a look into my last mech Eldar force (thread here at Dakka).

What is the range on those shots

36" on the scatter laser.

44 str 6 shots of range 36" (20 of them are twin-linked), and
33 str 6 shots of range 24".

By the way, I battled with mech Eldar a Raider-spam DE list at the 2000 pt level in a recent RTT.
This was the final (battle report somewhere here at Dakka).
My whole force stayed in reserve.
It arrived in pieces but almost completely annihilated the enemy after 5 rounds. Cheers!

I just finished reading your batrep. I don't exactly run a fully mechanized list like that, but I would certainly be fearful of a str 6 spam like that. It partially makes me consider night shields on the ravagers, and would certainly make me cautious on how I use my beastmasters. then again it would depend on how many wounds you could cause in a single volley. Anything less than 10 is tolerable. More then that would annhilate the squad rather quickly.

Well, I'd first target your Ravagers (with dark lances) and Raiders,
the Beastmasters are not top priority.

I have a tournament this Saturday at 1850 and I will bring 107 S6 shots.

14 at 12 inches AP -
33 at 24 inches (12 TL) AP5
60 at 36 inches (12 TL) AP6

Add an autarch for reserves, 2 units of FD for AV14 and a farseer for guide/RoWa . I do well against most mech lists. Not so good against T4 FNP but then DE are T3 and all my shots negate T3 FNP.

Agreed in a rock/paper/scissors approach you have some limited response to TL scatter lasers or 2x sl walkers roaming around the battlefield.

This might be a battle for your flicker fields and - don't remember the name - night field to reduce enemy ranges by 6". Neither is going to make you totally effective but it may get a dark lance to survive. Your biggest ally is the cost of eldar vehicles. You should have two raiders for every one wave serpent. Weight of DL will garner kills but the key is not to let him shoot anything so shaken and stuns are just as good.

Well, Raiders with flicker fields and night shields get expensive but may help to keep them alive.
If the Eldar army stays in reserve, its key to stay in the back field eventually getting cover.
In this way, scatterlasers, brightlances and eml's can target the DE tanks but not shuricannons.

Another nasty tactic that you can try has to do with the DE speed. Its not easy to do, because you have to make it across the whole board before he rolls for his reserves, but can definitely hurt him if you can pull it off.

If you get first turn, set up all your Troops in Raiders sideways dead on the 12" line (this is for pitched battle of course, but could possibly still work with DoW deployment, but probably not spearhead unless you get lucky and he has alot of bad rolls.) This would also work if you happen to Seize the initiative, but that's always a risk without Vect on the table of course.

Once he declares he's staying in reserve, your first turn, turn your raiders towards his table edge (remember I did say this tactic was nasty and not something to do against players that you like unless you are just having fun and wanna show them something strange) and turboboost the full 24" with all your raiders, making sure to turn them again at the end (its not like our side armor is weaker).

He then goes through his first turn, which seeing as nothing is on the table, its over immediately. At this point, in your movement, more your Raiders up the full 12" so they are flush on the table edge. Try to position yourself so that one Raider is in a corner and the rest are roughly 8"-10" apart along his table edge.. At this point, disembark your Warriors/Wyches or whatever is in the Raider. then in your shooting phase execute a run move and spread your models out so that they cover the entire distance of the run move and are less than 1" apart from each other. If your Raiders are setup at 8" you would need a 3" run to cover the space, if they are 10" you would need a 5", which is about the norm for runs.

Now his turn two starts and even though this wont stop skimmers from coming on, if you have a 10 man Warrior/Wych squad, they are probably going to have to move farther than 6", which can hamper some things, and he can of course Outflank the Warwalkers, but any troops that he wants to come on the board can't, and then count as destroyed.

Like I said, its a nasty dirty tactic that I only put in here to throw out some strange fun that your opponent won't expect. I personally have never done this to a complete table edge, but hey, it will make them change their strategy at least a little.


P.S. you can also do this dirty trick with 3 units of full mandrakes infiltrated right on the edge, and then Run your Raiders up behind the Mandrakes to help screen where skimmers can fly over and still land within 12".

Please don't blast me or be rude about this tactic, I just like to think up off the wall things to do, and if this causes someone to have some fun in a game, and for an opponent to enjoy themselves also by having to think outside their normal box, I see no harm in it. Strange ideas and tactics always make amusing games, IMHO.

Galador wrote:lances are not as reliable as everyone thinks. They are great for stopping movement or shooting, but they destroy things alot less than most other AT weapons.

I don't understand why people continue to say such short sighted things as this.

'Most other AT weapons?"

What weapons can you be maning? Heat Lances are only found in Fast Attack slot units which are expensive. Haywire Blasters blow vehicles up LESS than Dark Lances. I really want to know what other AT weapons you are reffering to. Can't be Splinter Cannons.

The point that Lances are as reliable as Missile Launchers (Which are good themselves) is already addressed, which is why the list proposed by Dash has 24 Missile Launcher type weapons in it.

Dark Eldar field dark lances as Anti-Tank. That's it. There is nothing else really.

On the other side, Haywires are not for desparation tactics, they are a very good addition to our much needed anti-tank abilities. Yes, depending on points cost, we can field a plethora of Dark Lances, but other than Ravagers, nothing usually carries more than two, and most of the things that carry two (Trueborn, Scourges) are much better suited to other tasks. However, a 10 man wych squad with Haywire grenades is often very scary to both tanks and infantry, as they can reliably counter both, and have the speed to get to where you want them to hit.

The OP asked what he needed to destroy three Eldar tanks. These Tanks will be moving the entire game. To kit out and send Wyches at the Skimmers is suicide. 6's to hit, and 6's again to bow the Skimmer up. Consider what is in those skimmers, and the Wyches will just be shot up to death next turn.

Trueborne are good for one thing only, and that is fielding mass Darklight weaponry. That is their only role in the book if you wish to play to win. Saying Trueborn are better suited for any other job is akin to saying Long Fangs should be fitted for close combat.

To the OP, to blow the Skimmers out of the sky, just field mass Dark Lances. Just remember, if you immobilize or stun one of them, just move on to the next Eldar Tank. Your job is to halt the Eldar mobility, not destroy their Tanks out right.

Mass Darklight weaponry everywhere against Eldar. Just get ready for turns where you accomplish nothing, and turns where you accomplish everything. Dark Eldar are like that with their Darklight weaponry.

wuestenfux wrote:Its a good plan.
However, an Eldar player worth his salt will eventually stay in reserve and load up a bunch of scatterlasers.
Massive S6 shots will down paper-thin skimmers with ease.

Likewise, any Dark Eldar Archon with experience under his belt will know to Reserve against you, so the game literally becomes a game of who goes first, who goes second, and the Reserve game. I have played against mass Walker lists before, and it is a toss up honestly. Your strength 6 weapons can tear my vehicles up on a 4+, but my Darklight weapons tear through walkers on a 2+, so it essentially becomes a game of who shoots first.

Massive strength 8 shots will down paper-thin Walkers with ease. :p

Its a nasty tactics.
However, skimmers will fly over the barrier and can arrive unhindered.
On the other hand, the player has to declare prior the start of game which units will outfiank.
So if he doesn't see it coming (barrier) and doesn't declare that the Warwalkers outflank, they will be dead when they cannot arrive.

BuFFo wrote:

Galador wrote:lances are not as reliable as everyone thinks. They are great for stopping movement or shooting, but they destroy things alot less than most other AT weapons.

I don't understand why people continue to say such short sighted things as this.

'Most other AT weapons?"

What weapons can you be maning? Heat Lances are only found in Fast Attack slot units which are expensive. Haywire Blasters blow vehicles up LESS than Dark Lances. I really want to know what other AT weapons you are reffering to. Can't be Splinter Cannons.

The point that Lances are as reliable as Missile Launchers (Which are good themselves) is already addressed, which is why the list proposed by Dash has 24 Missile Launcher type weapons in it.

Dark Eldar field dark lances as Anti-Tank. That's it. There is nothing else really.

On the other side, Haywires are not for desparation tactics, they are a very good addition to our much needed anti-tank abilities. Yes, depending on points cost, we can field a plethora of Dark Lances, but other than Ravagers, nothing usually carries more than two, and most of the things that carry two (Trueborn, Scourges) are much better suited to other tasks. However, a 10 man wych squad with Haywire grenades is often very scary to both tanks and infantry, as they can reliably counter both, and have the speed to get to where you want them to hit.

The OP asked what he needed to destroy three Eldar tanks. These Tanks will be moving the entire game. To kit out and send Wyches at the Skimmers is suicide. 6's to hit, and 6's again to bow the Skimmer up. Consider what is in those skimmers, and the Wyches will just be shot up to death next turn.

Trueborne are good for one thing only, and that is fielding mass Darklight weaponry. That is their only role in the book if you wish to play to win. Saying Trueborn are better suited for any other job is akin to saying Long Fangs should be fitted for close combat.

Sorry, should have been a bit clearer on this. I didn't mean that they were less reliable than anyone else's army, I meant that everyone seems to think that the Lance rule makes them better than everything else that other armies have. They are only better than others AT against AV13 and above, but because of that, everyone thinks they are the greatest AT in the entire game, which is not true. As Buffo said, be prepared for it to work great one turn, and to roll all ones for your Dark Lances the next turn. Sorry for any confusion on that one.

The Haywires compliment the Dark Lances, because if I can immobilise or stun that Tank, my next turn my wyches will auto hit, and with 10 wyches, thats usually a minimum of 5 glances and 1 or 2 pens, which will reliably wreck the tank, if not blow it up.

And for the trueborn, I meant that they are better suited to blasters, not Dark Lances. Dark Lances are a waste on Trueborn, because that is too high of a points cost on an elite slot to have it sit in the back and only take two shots, especially when 4 blasters only cost 10 pts more and they can move and shoot and its two more shots, even at half range.

Sorry for the confusion, but I gotta start remembering that people aren't in my head, I need to explain a bit more sometimes!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:Its a nasty tactics.
However, skimmers will fly over the barrier and can arrive unhindered.
On the other hand, the player has to declare prior the start of game which units will outfiank.
So if he doesn't see it coming (barrier) and doesn't declare that the Warwalkers outflank, they will be dead when they cannot arrive.

This is true, so it would help, but remember, if you setup first, doesn't he tell you his reserves AFTER you have setup?? If he can possibly think you are going to do this, then he just decides to tell you they are outflanking. Of course, the big if here is would he think you would try this tactic...

The only way that I know of to change how you are deploying is Dark Eldar with a Webway Portal, unless another army has a rule that can do it?