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So guys I have no played a game in what feels like ages but I plan to do so soon. However I have been looking at my list (I love this list) it worked well for me but I think the lack of FWs is hurting me.

I run them in teams of 6 to get the maximum amount of points I can onto other things but I can't help but feel they work much better with teams of 10. Can you guys help me out with either chopping to get the points needed. (I would need 120pts, but they would be unbonded) or even just streamlining my list more so I forget about my FW.

This is my list as I use it currently.

Summary:
1500 - 1 Commander (Centurion, HWDC+2SD), 2 VX8 (Helios) suits, 2 VX8 (Heatwave -Hellfire suits), 2HH (Rails), 3x DF+6FW (Warfish), 2xBSides

Tau Shas’el with Plasma Rifle, cyclic ion blaster, stimulant injector ,Multitracker,
Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones
130p

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Tau Battlesuit Team
2 Battlesuits with plasma rifle and fusion blaster,multitracker
124p (62 each)

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Tau Battlesuit Team
2 Battlesuits with missile pods and twin linked flamers
86p (43 each)


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(X3) 6 man Fire warrior Team
Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
570p (190 each)

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Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard),target lock, Multitracker,
Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
190p

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Hammerhead with Railgun, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array (comes as standard),target lock, Multitracker,
Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger
190p

--------------------------------
2 man Broadside Team with Targeting array. -(Need Target Arrays or ASS)
Leader,Bonding knife, hard wired target lock, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones
205p

Welcome back! Kudos on your sig, GiTS is actually why I got into Tau as I'm now building a GiTS themed Tau collection.

I like your list but there are a few things that bug me, biggest of which is the total lack of pathfinders. They aren't scoring and can't have enhanced BS but markerlights are just so useful when used correctly, why not include any? You can also re-purpose their devilfish for your Fire Warriors and use the locator beacon to pull off gutsy deepstrikes (if thats what you do with your Helios suits). The Missile Pod/Flamer suits look good but I'm curious about the Flamer being TL instead of the Missile Pod. Typically XV8s in that configuration have the flamer as a fall-back weapon if they get overrun, why make that the TL weapon? As for the Devilfish, they look good but expensive. Disruption Pod is an essential upgrade so nice one there but the Flechette Discharger and SMS seem like they may not be necessary. Are you offensive with your Devilfish or do you relinquish them to sitting on objective or being in reserve?

For your heavy support, I love your broadsides. I run mine the exact same way (though I use A.S.S almost exclusively because of Dawn of War). The Shield Drones are a great buy on them and perhaps the only time that they are truly worth it thanks to the 2+ save. Your Hammerheads seem a bit expensive though. The Target Lock and the SMS go nicely together but it is expensive, decreases your shots by 2, and divides up an already low amount of dakka for the points. I also question the Flechette Discharger again as they really only pose a threat to Gaunts, Ork Boys, and Guardsmen. If that is your local meta then I'm sure they work great but otherwise they are an odd upgrade as it requires you to get in harm's way to use it.

With your list I see a lot of strong firepower but I think there is some overcosting going on too. My experience as a Tau player is brief as I recently started but I've been a frequent Tau opponent for the last 2 years and I've learned that less is more with Tau, meaning less points spent is better. Tau, being 4th edition, are painfully overcosted already so sinking points even further into something can really hurt when you could be spending the same points to take Pathfinders or my XV8s.

SonicPara wrote:Welcome back! Kudos on your sig, GiTS is actually why I got into Tau as I'm now building a GiTS themed Tau collection.

That sounds like the most awesome Tau army I will ever hear about it. If you get any pictures I would love to see them (I am a massive fanboy of GiTS)

I like your list but there are a few things that bug me, biggest of which is the total lack of pathfinders. They aren't scoring and can't have enhanced BS but markerlights are just so useful when used correctly, why not include any? You can also re-purpose their devilfish for your Fire Warriors and use the locator beacon to pull off gutsy deepstrikes (if thats what you do with your Helios suits). The Missile Pod/Flamer suits look good but I'm curious about the Flamer being TL instead of the Missile Pod. Typically XV8s in that configuration have the flamer as a fall-back weapon if they get overrun, why make that the TL weapon? As for the Devilfish, they look good but expensive. Disruption Pod is an essential upgrade so nice one there but the Flechette Discharger and SMS seem like they may not be necessary. Are you offensive with your Devilfish or do you relinquish them to sitting on objective or being in reserve?

I have never used pathfinders before (or seen them been used) so I don't know how to use them correctly really. I also worry that they get mauled on the first turn and that I just wasted my points. Any pointers on how to keep them alive?
A lot of people ask me the question about the TL Flamers, I -against all advice, like to get my hellfires in close to small units If I can. Re rolls to wound which negate cover seem to just destroy marines, weak tyranids and IG. I use the MP as a fall back if I am not in range, plus you can never turn down a chance to break light armour. If I can I Jump them back behind a rock of my DF after the initial attack -hence my FDs.
As for the DF yes they are so god damn expensive -I wish they were not, but I am very aggressive with them. I use them to chase down units, split up armies and as mobile cover for the crisis suits. In rare cases I use them to block charges to my Broadsides flanks -or if something is dropped in I block their next move forcing them to go around into my 'deathzone' or stay still. ( I try to lure my opponent into certain locations) And if my DF are alive at the end of the game or close to it they make a last minute rush for objectives.

For your heavy support, I love your broadsides. I run mine the exact same way (though I use A.S.S almost exclusively because of Dawn of War). The Shield Drones are a great buy on them and perhaps the only time that they are truly worth it thanks to the 2+ save. Your Hammerheads seem a bit expensive though. The Target Lock and the SMS go nicely together but it is expensive, decreases your shots by 2, and divides up an already low amount of dakka for the points. I also question the Flechette Discharger again as they really only pose a threat to Gaunts, Ork Boys, and Guardsmen. If that is your local meta then I'm sure they work great but otherwise they are an odd upgrade as it requires you to get in harm's way to use it.

I did use A.S.S but due to my local players it was much less effective and I like the odds I get even if I miss my first turn of firing. Although I hear many professionals swear on using A.S.S but I do swap now and again so I do use it. And the SDs, I honestly think they are a must those 2+ saves have made my Broadsides near invincible in some games.
As for my HH the FD are just in there because I never had anything to send the points on at the end of making up my list. As for the TL and SMS, I try to justify them as I get 4 shots at 1 unit then my Rail fires at another, without the TL my SMS would never really fire and same with if they where burst cannons. (I'm always going to choose the railshot over them) But the last few games I had all the SMS did was kill a marine or 2. So I am looking into seeing how they do without it - I would save 50 points that way plus the 10pts for FDs -I'd probably use them for a 3rd hellfire (lead +BK) though, I have a problem of making my army symmetrical, I cant have 1 unit of 10FWs and 1 of 6 lol.

With your list I see a lot of strong firepower but I think there is some overcosting going on too. My experience as a Tau player is brief as I recently started but I've been a frequent Tau opponent for the last 2 years and I've learned that less is more with Tau, meaning less points spent is better. Tau, being 4th edition, are painfully overcosted already so sinking points even further into something can really hurt when you could be spending the same points to take Pathfinders or my XV8s.

Thanks for your time btw, I like to see how others view my list. I want to cut down on costs atm but I have the problem of justifying the cuts, when I picked my list I tried to drill my spending into my head so when people called my list crap etc I had a retort and good tactics to back it up. Its just getting out of the mind frame seems to be harder then it looks. It also comes with the problem of locking yourself into 1 play-style.

syanticraven wrote:I have never used pathfinders before (or seen them been used) so I don't know how to use them correctly really. I also worry that they get mauled on the first turn and that I just wasted my points. Any pointers on how to keep them alive?

Either two things. Kroot screen in front or in a building. What I like to do is use a Kroot screen. Usually, I put the Kroot Hounds in front of them, mostly because they're smaller. Since Pathfinders don't cause wounds, all you need is a good line of sight to a target. Kroot take any assaults and you light up the survivors. Plus, Pathfinders will be a second screen for any non-Jump Infantry foes.

syanticraven wrote:I like to see how others view my list. I want to cut down on costs atm but I have the problem of justifying the cuts, when I picked my list I tried to drill my spending into my head so when people called my list crap etc I had a retort and good tactics to back it up. Its just getting out of the mind frame seems to be harder then it looks. It also comes with the problem of locking yourself into 1 play-style.

More power to you. I honestly believe your list can be optimized; however, to each his own. If it works for you, don't let others tell you different but always keep an open mind about what they say. As far as what I'd say, you've probably heard stuff like:

>> I used to love the Cyclic. Not so much anymore. It's just too random. Even at BS5, you still need 4s and 5s to hurt things. Odds I don't really like when I can hit on 2s and 3s with other weapons. I used to see the appeal but I'd prefer consistency. FnP is good but I'd like it on more than one model. I'd like your Commander better if he were BS5. The Shield Drones are defensive upgrades that you really can't afford in these few points.

>> Your suits could be a little more ranged. As it is you have to be closer than I'd like to do any damage. I, personally, prefer Missile Pods.

>> I'd like to get you to try out a Kroot screen. It'll protect you from the long ranged assaulting that Marines, Orks and DE can do. As it stands, there isn't any protection for your core squads (Crisis and Broadsides)

>> I also think you're using too many upgrades on your tanks. You've got 20 points tied up in each Hammerhead that you don't really need (SMS, Flechette) The Burst Cannons can do more damage albeit closer. The range won't be too much of a difference. Knock those off and the other Flechettes on the Devilfish as well as the Drones and you've got 100 points to upgrade your suits.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for the post mate.

I like the CIB but it really is a high risk, high reward type weapon, one I dont plan to keep. I would use the AFP or MP as a substitute.

My suits are close range I have noticed. I do use them that way though. I was gonna use my Hellfires as MP+Bursts for long-medium range but so far they have proven to really lay into any unit that has charged them.

I have used a Kroot screen once but it was against IG, and I did not get enough use out of them to get a good enough opinion. (They got pie plated 1st turn lol.) I do have a list that incorporates them though.

I do think the FD, and SMS can be cut from each HH for 50pts. However I was thinking of what to use them on.

(Assuming I cut them, drones from commander and FDs frtom DF)

syanticraven wrote:... but I think the lack of FWs is hurting me.
I run them in teams of 6 to get the maximum amount of points I can onto other things but I can't help but feel they work much better with teams of 10. Can you guys help me out with either chopping to get the points needed. (I would need 120pts, but they would be unbonded) or even just streamlining my list more so I forget about my FW.
(X3) 6 man Fire warrior Team - Devilfish with Smart Missile System, Targeting Array, Multitracker, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger

I like to run Warfish as well, but I run 10 to 12 FWs per. At 1500 you'll need to keep the 3 troop choices, so upping each FW crew to 10 ought to help. I'd take out the Hammerheads' Flechettes for the points.

Although, really, if you have the kroot (rechecks thread-posts so far) then I'd trade out one Warfish/FW combo for the mercenaries ... they grant the Outflank fun and loosen up points for more Crisis Suits.

syanticraven wrote:2 man Broadside Team with Targeting array. -(Need Target Arrays or ASS)
Leader,Bonding knife, hard wired target lock, Hardwired Drone Controller with 2 shield drones

Without Pathfinders, and knowing your meta has light terrain on the tables, go TA. If the terrain is often heavy, then A.s.s. so you can move and deny vehicle Cover Saves.

Brothererekose wrote:I like to run Warfish as well, but I run 10 to 12 FWs per. At 1500 you'll need to keep the 3 troop choices, so upping each FW crew to 10 ought to help. I'd take out the Hammerheads' Flechettes for the points.

Flechettes only cost 10 points. If I removed them from All tanks then I would still only have 50pts to spend. (I could also remove the SMS on the HH for another 40pts) That would still leave me 30pts shy but 30pts is closer then 120 so thanks.

Although, really, if you have the kroot (rechecks thread-posts so far) then I'd trade out one Warfish/FW combo for the mercenaries ... they grant the Outflank fun and loosen up points for more Crisis Suits.

I do have them. How many would you suggest be used. I have seen many teams of 10 with 2-3 dogs in them. And it was the amount I used last time.
However I think that is too small a unit for such fragile beasts.

Without Pathfinders, and knowing your meta has light terrain on the tables, go TA. If the terrain is often heavy, then A.s.s. so you can move and deny vehicle Cover Saves.

Well this is my big problem. I lose TA I use it most of the time as my broadsides literally sit an do not move ever. But with A.S.S I can move them for getting side armour shots in stead of front facing armour.

SMS isn't much better than the Burst Cannon's on the Hammerhead. It's definitely not worth the points when the burst cannons are free.

Cottonjaw wrote:SMS isn't much better than the Burst Cannon's on the Hammerhead. It's definitely not worth the points when the burst cannons are free.

... they aren't free.

They are half the price of SMS.

True that.

Cottonjaw wrote:True that.

I would still consider them superior, the only time I would consider SMS is when it costs as much as the 2 BCs.

I'm sorry but I get excited about feedback and what the person thinks when they see my list.

Seeing a post only contain 'true dat' really killed my mood.

syanticraven wrote:I'm sorry but I get excited about feedback and what the person thinks when they see my list.

Seeing a post only contain 'true dat' really killed my mood.

Yeah, sorry bout that, I wasn't really commenting on your list.

I would suggest changing your SMS to burst cannons, especially if there won't be a great deal of terrain on the board.

I would suggest changing your MP suits to having TL Missile Pods instead of TL flamers, the reason I say this is because there is only a 4 point difference between those two variants, and the TL missile pod will probably be worth that small difference in points.

Broadsides... I don't have much of a preference between A.S.S. and a TA... it could go either way.



You have 3 units of fire warriors with their own devilfish, but no pathfinders? The devilfish is the hardest part to getting pathfinders, so seeing as you already have them, I'd suggest making points for pathfinders.

I don't really like your commander. imho, the plasma rifle shouldn't be coupled with the CIB, because they are very different.

syanticraven wrote:

BrotherErekose wrote:Although, really, if you have the kroot (rechecks thread-posts so far) then I'd trade out one Warfish/FW combo for the mercenaries ... they grant the Outflank fun and loosen up points for more Crisis Suits.

I do have them. How many would you suggest be used. I have seen many teams of 10 with 2-3 dogs in them. And it was the amount I used last time.
However I think that is too small a unit for such fragile beasts.

I run a large unit, 14 or so, no dogs, Shaper for the Leadership bonus and then Outflank them. Outflank helps corral enemy deployment so you don't have to fire all over the table. They're fragile, yes. They cannot take on a full MEq squad. But good for mop up and threat potential, unless an opponent is *really* unafraid of tau.

syanticraven wrote:

BrotherErekose wrote:Without Pathfinders, and knowing your meta has light terrain on the tables, go TA. If the terrain is often heavy, then A.s.s. so you can move and deny vehicle Cover Saves.

Well this is my big problem. I lose TA I use it most of the time as my broadsides literally sit an do not move ever. But with A.S.S I can move them for getting side armour shots in stead of front facing armour.

I almost always have gone with A.s.s. TLBS3 ain't bad. Stick with mobility, given that Ork kommandos & SW Scouts cause rear-entry goofery.

Okay so I shall swap SMS on HH for Bursts.
I will try the TL MP instead of flamers (But I love them so much lol)
(I am wanting to change my commanders CIB to a AFP or MP would be okay but I think the AFP could be more useful)

So that gives me 16pts to play with. If I remove my FW and replace them with PFs (6) then I have no room for my kroot.

However a team of 10 kroot and 2 dogs is 82pts. And I dont think I could free up enough space -I can get 66pts. But I could re-enlist my FWs by removing the 5 FDs on the Tanks. (Then I would have 6pts left over)

syanticraven wrote:But I could re-enlist my FWs by removing the 5 FDs on the Tanks. (Then I would have 6pts left over)

I think dropping the Flechette Dischargers is a smart move. Since they allow armor saves they are really only going to make a difference against "Green Tide" Orks. Against anything that can actually kill a tank reliably, Flechette Dischargers aren't going to do anything as they are likely in MEQ or special armor and have ablative wounds to protect their most dangerous anti-tank model. They are a neat idea and fun to use but since Tau have to min-max everything just to have a chance at winning, I don't think you can afford to spend the points on them when you need to add in Fire Warriors/Kroot or Pathfinders.