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Hey guys, I have been thinking of building a tau army as my first operational army. (this is my first thread so I apologize if its in the wrong section)

I read Shadowsun's rules and such. On the one hand those meltas are great, two meltas (not twin linked, but independent) on a 4+ invulnerable save with 3 ablative drones with 3+ saves and two with 4+ invulnerable saves.

The problem is that nobody in the right mind would let someone like her come within a mile of their tanks for more then a second, because lets face it, if shes even moderately lucky she can take out two tanks, and if she's really lucky she could potentially take out two land raiders at close range sinking the opponent of a ton of money (and I say money because at 50 some odd dollars a pop, losing both to one enemy character is rubbing salt in the wound). And if said opponent has two land raiders then chances are their entire strategy revolves around their survival for at least a decent period of time.

But the problem is that with only two meltas, she can't go toe to toe with large infantry formations of greater than two soldiers (which chances are were not going to find much of). Which is a shame because with that sort of heavy armament you could really put some pain in the enemy's heaviest units.

But what if you were to build her a bodyguard unit, a unit of normal XV8's that you attach her to? A unit that can compliment her abilities so darn nicely. I'd think maybe one Shas'vre with integrated target lock, integrated drone controller, and integrated multi tracker, armed with a plasma gun, fusion blaster, and flamer (for when those close encounters just get too close) with two shield drones. Then arm the other two XV8's with fusion blasters and plasma guns with multitrackers. Now you have the most powerful weapons (strength and AP wise I think) a battle suit can be armed with, paired with arguably one of the greatest tank hunting IC's you can think of.

For all those non-tau armies, would you actually dare to send in your tanks or teq's up against this squad? I may be a noob, but If I were on the other team I would try to keep my teq's and tanks away from this squad like the plague.

There's the potential at medium range of the plasma guns (24 inches I believe is the plasma gun range) for three Strength 7 AP 2 shots, and at short range at 12 inches there's the potential for six Strength 7 AP 2 shots, and then FIVE Strength 8 AP 1 melta shots. With some lucky rolling that could easily take out your average terminator squad in a heartbeat, and if it doesn't and you do have to resort to close combat, well one has to admit that you could do worse then shadowsun and XV8's against terminators especially if you thinned them out in the previous round of shooting. But hopefully JSJ will keep you clear of this. I may be wrong, but doesn't the fact that the meltagun's S8 shots mean that any terminators hit will be killed instantly without saves? Or am I misunderstanding that rule?

So an enemy player has two options when fighting this squad as I see it. Either run the f away, because the fact is none of us can afford to lose the best of the best in our armies. Or try and face off against this squad and hope to cripple them in one round of shooting. But with four 4++ save drones and one command drone I doubt there is much out there that is non template that could take this entire unit down in a round of shooting. You would need to inflict a minimum of five unsaved wounds, which can be easier said then done, especially if the tau player is smart with their cover like hiding behind buildings or such. This squad would go against all tau doctrine, namely, stay away and blast them from afar. But that also makes it unexpected. It fills that precious gap in tau armies, that gap being serious heavy firepower at close range, most of the time we try to delegate heavy firepower to the broadsides and the like which usually have their hands...servos full with vehicles for teq hunting, especially at the beginning of the game.

So essentially, this squad would be dedicated to doing one thing. Taking down the opponent's best and brightest as quickly as possible. Against hordes this unit may fit better on the shelf then in the game. But against armies with really expensive but ponderous units, like assault terminators with Lysander in a land raider, this unit could wreack utter havoc.

The one downside is you lose Shadowsun's stealth field. Also, this unit can only ever really work well without dying in either two situations. One is the JSJ, you would need some cover though. And the other is to only attack lone units. Especially units like assault terminators because without jump packs nor a land raider then once they are on the field they would not move very quickly and could get lost from the bulk of their force. All that Shadowsun's squad would need to do is to JSJ from 18 inches to 12 inches and back to 15. Sure they can run away and stay out of the range. But that could be an advantage, it can potentially force the terminators to go where the suit squad wants them, and can certainly halt an advance.

But even though you lose the stealth field there is some silver lining in the clouds. If the rest of the unit gets destroyed you can use it again and have a reasonable chance of escape, live to fight another day, and with two meltaguns, she can certainly bring hell with her.

So what do you guys think? Good or bad strategy?

You are indeed misunderstanding the Instant Death rule. In fact, the fact that a melta shot is double the toughness of a space marine doesn't mean jack, because Space Marines have very few multi-wound models. The way that rule works is that if you hit, let's say an Ork Nob, which has two wounds, with a melta shot, it gets to take its saves. Since melta is AP1, it wouldn't get any armor saves, but let's say this Nob has an invulnerable save of 5+, just for fun. Well it DOES get to take that 5+, and if it passes, it is fine. If it fails the 5+ invo, it dies. Even though it had two wounds, since the melta shot is double its toughness, the Nob is Instant Deathed.

If you are shooting this at a unit of Assault Terminators with lightning claws, they still get a 5+ invulnerable save. This is because the AP1 ignores the 2+ armor, but all terminator models still get a 5+ invulnerable save. If they are Thunder Hammer Stormshield Termies, they get a 3+ invulnerable save. So you are not going to be able to eliminate their save no matter what with Tau.

I also think Shadowsun is pretty underwhelming. I have a friend that's used her a time or two, he sort of sits her in the middle of his army to blow the feth out of tanks that come close, and she doesn't work well. He hasn't used her(is it a her, or am I thinking of a different Tau character?) in a while. Using Shadowsun out in the open is gonna screw you in a whole different way. If the entirety of your army is sitting back and shooting, and Shadowsun is out in the middle of the field, even in cover or a building, I'm going to be able to absolutely demolish her with all my short to mid range fire WHILE I am moving towards you. You are actually going to be increasing your opponents' effectiveness, because while they would normally have to just eat a turn or two of not being able to shoot, they will be able to decimate your pricey HQ while still moving towards the bulk of your army. I think she's not that good at all, but if any Tau players want to disagree with me, they're more than welcome.

Shadowsun is terrible. She costs 175 points for 2 meltaguns. A Plasma/Melta Chrisis Suit is somewhere around 60 points. You can get almost 3 for shadowsun.
3 Meltas + 3 Plasma is going to be much better than 2 meltaguns.

If shadowsun was about 100 points less she's be usefull. As it is she costs as much as a crisis team by it's self. Or a a unit of broadsides (which are much more usefull as AT). The thing is Tau are not lacking in anti armour and having a one trick pony like shadowsun is not benificial when you have other units that are much more defensable and cheaper.

If you insist on melta on your tau then take a crisis team with twinlinked fusion. Personaly I'd take Missile pods and leave the heavy tank killing to broadsides.

Also you can't join her to a unit unless her drones are dead. She has a specific rule about that.

okay. Thanks for the replies you guys. I am a bit disappointed, but its better then sinking 50+ dollars into it before finding out its useful, I just wanted to have a unit that could serve as sort of a deterrent to high points heavy teq assault units trying to approach my forces.

Irdiumstern wrote:Shadowsun is terrible. She costs 175 points for 2 meltaguns. A Plasma/Melta Chrisis Suit is somewhere around 60 points. You can get almost 3 for shadowsun.
3 Meltas + 3 Plasma is going to be much better than 2 meltaguns.

VoxDei wrote:If shadowsun was about 100 points less she's be usefull. As it is she costs as much as a crisis team by it's self. Or a a unit of broadsides (which are much more usefull as AT). The thing is Tau are not lacking in anti armour and having a one trick pony like shadowsun is not benificial when you have other units that are much more defensable and cheaper.

I don't agree with the above posters, but it is probably because I run a not-so-standard Tau build. First of all, she may be 175 points for two meltaguns, but that is not the entire point. If you're looking at her from just her weapon build, then sure, she's not worth it. Nevermind the fact that she gives all of your Ld 7 and Ld 8 units a boost to Ld 10. And that you don't have to send her out into the fray.

Consider the 'Patient Hunter' approach for your Tau. That's how I run her. I run her (because she's also a Battlesuit, counting as the commander) as an anchor in the center of my force. First of all, let me preface this by saying that I don't run Mech at all. No Devilfish, no Hammerheads. Layers of Fire Warrior teams, a crisis suit team, two Broadside teams (each with a drone controller and two shield drones. 12 2+/4++ wounds are tough to take down), a large squad of Kroot and two units of Stealthsuits (one of the few units in the Tau army that can move and fire a markerlight). I'm not going to explain my entire list and how it works together, but Shadowsun sits at an advantageous point, giving every unit Ld 10, while closing in with enemy mech (because the Ld 10 ability is an 18" range). I also have a cheap Ethereal either attached to the front line Fire Warriors or one of the Broadside teams - whoever I want to be Fearless. Now, with a cheap Ethereal and Shadowsun, I have an entire army that is Ld 10 and can re-roll morale. So, all those fire warriors taking heavy fire as the enemy closes in (since they're vehicles are destroyed ) will nearly always hold their ground, and even if they do break, a bonding knife with Ld 10 and re-roll morale will pretty much ensure they're sticking around. Sure, 175 pts. is a bit much for two meltaguns, but I'd pay 225 for two meltaguns, re-rollable Ld 10 for an entire foot army, with one unit always Fearless. Her Fusion Blasters are an afterthought. You don't take her for two fusion blasters. Gotta think outside the box a bit. When you look at a character like that and just see 2 fusion blasters, ask yourself why she costs 175, and options will start to become clearer.

VoxDei wrote:Also you can't join her to a unit unless her drones are dead. She has a specific rule about that.

True, but with a Stealth Field Generator and Shield Drones (not to mention Crisis Suits, Broadsides and markerlight-toting Stealthsuits), she's not a high-priority target and can be tough to kill even if she is. Also, it makes it easy to hide her and spread that Ld bubble. I disagree - I think she has great potential.

Why would you want your Fire Warriors to be Ld10?

When I'm playing extremely aggressively, there's nothing I love more than small squads of fragile infantry who will stand their ground. They're more likely to stay in combat after getting assaulted, protecting my assaulting unit from retributive fire. They're also more likely to stand their ground after taking a barrage of closing fire, which reduces the risk that I'll shoot myself out of assault.

Really, Tau need two things that I can see. Failsafe Detonators need to be Infantry Wargear, and Ethereals need to grant the entire army Combat Tactics.

Any tau player wil tell you that the biggest, or one of the main, issues with their infantry is the fact that they cost a fair bit and run away like there's no tomorrow. Assault them if you want; they'll be rapid firing you all the way. I see the logic in pumas tactics, althoguh I can also see it being a bit of an acquired taste, gameplay-wise, as it were.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:Why would you want your Fire Warriors to be Ld10?

Running a foot list, high leadership is a necessity. If your squad of 10 Fire Warriors break, then the first layer of your castle has come down. Have you ever played against a Footdar list? The Avatar is essential, making most of the army Fearless. You don't need the bulk of your army (and scoring units) fleeing.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:When I'm playing extremely aggressively, there's nothing I love more than small squads of fragile infantry who will stand their ground.

10 isn't a small squad, to me. 10 shots at 30", 20 shots at 12", times 4.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:They're more likely to stay in combat after getting assaulted, protecting my assaulting unit from retributive fire. They're also more likely to stand their ground after taking a barrage of closing fire, which reduces the risk that I'll shoot myself out of assault.

Have you faced combat against Tau? If you're in assault, chances are you're going to win. And if you don't kill them all, that's fine. I'm sure there are plenty of other targets to face. However, the point of the Foot Tau is not to let you get within Assault Range. Sure, it happens, but 40 Str. 5 shots at 30", coupled with twin-linked missile pods from Suits, 6 twin-linked railguns, and a screen of Kroot + Kroot Hounds (if they're not outflanking) and it's a tough cookie to break. And that's just turn 1. As soon as you close to assault range, depending on how many Fire Warriors have died, it jumps to 80 Str. 5 shots.

This is one reason I love armies like this - people aren't prepared for no mech in Mech-Centric 5th Ed.

DaddyWarCrimes wrote:Ethereals need to grant the entire army Combat Tactics.

Right, we need another Space Marine-esque codex.


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Exhumed wrote:I see the logic in pumas tactics, althoguh I can also see it being a bit of an acquired taste, gameplay-wise, as it were.

Oh, for certain. Foot armies are not for everyone, hence why I prefaced my first post.

The fact that I'm starting to only now realise is that all monocentric armies that adhere to or resemble a commonly effective combination of units depending on the desire to field foot, mechanised, jetpack, biker lists, require a similar learning curve regardless. I had the great interest to watch my opponent recently, who up to now fielded either foot/destroyer lists with 'crons, or terminator-heavy land raider assault forces in apocalypse with GK, game for the first time with entirely mech IG. Veterans, banewolves, LR and Basilisk in support. By turn two, his vehicles were blocking his own fire and bogging each other down like there was no tomorrow. This was gameplay from someone who had used seperately all these elements in this new list, but just hadn't the experience to cope first time out. Now, due to the current climate as mentioned earlier of mech-hammer 40k, folks look upon any even partially mechanised list with the rose tinted spectacles, as the general failsafe is that you'll have something you can use to outflank,, maneuver, bog opponents down with, as a bare minimum. Sure, it'll take some getting used to, but how hard can it be? We fail to look at foot armies in the same light. I think our brains make a basic mathematical decision that vehicles>infantry, and so they reach for the rhinos every time, and ostensibly, the initiative.
I propose that the learning curve for our foot army is steeper, not by much, but puma has definately thought out of the box to give himself what are really some of the most obvious answers to the drawbacks of the Tau inf.

I do like the logic of Pumas. The tau are unmatched when it comes to ranged firepower (this is coming from a noob so if Im wrong its not out of some sense of arrogance) thats why I want to run a tau army. They are also very good at mobility. The problem is that if your moving then your not shooting, and if your shooting your not moving. While this is a sweeping generalization there is truth in it. If you want your entire firepower to be unleashed in one turn then you only give a slight degree of attention to movement, and vice versa.

The way I see it is that a lot of tau strategies try to mesh movement and firepower together. But the fact is that if you try to do both you are sacrificing both. The idea of using four squads of ten fire warriors fighting like a phalanx is definitely a novel one. Especially if you had a squad or two in reserve to come out when the enemy starts closing in.

GW has handed the tau a major advantage in mobility. But they have handed the tau an unparalleled advantage in shooting. Personally, I'd rather choose one over the other, sometimes you just cant have your cake and eat it too.

An0maly1 wrote:GW has handed the tau an unparalleled advantage in shooting.

I'll admit I don't know the tau codex by heart, and I don't play them all that often, but I don't really get why people say they're so great at shooting. Okay, so their pulse rifles can pen av10 and wound t3 on 2+. They're still 12" rapid fire and carried by fire warriors.

Really I feel like the only thing they have is railguns, and while those are hard to argue with, what's left once you deal with them?

Oh and markerlights I guess. Those exist.

The range of the guns are 30 inches, not 24, which if your smart could be used advantageously.

An0maly1 wrote:The range of the guns are 30 inches, not 24, which if your smart could be used advantageously.

They still rapid-fire at 12", not that it matters a whole lot. And yeah, maybe I'm stupid but if I ran tau I'd keep the fire warriors in their fishies and focus points on real guns.

I mean they can't even take special weapons. Are you supposed to just dump them in some bushes and use them to deny area (to av11- and sloggers with a 5+ save without mobile cover)?

You know why, on a powerblob, being unbreakable is a benefit? Because absolutely nothing is going to kill it in a reasonable timeframe (Barring most of an ork army charging it). It's going to last multiple turns and tie up something several times its own value. Guardsman are cheap, and powerweapons help.

Now lets take some firewarriors. They come in squads of 10 (Or is it 12? either way . . .) When they get charged by anything reasonably CC oriented, those firewarriors are going to die in 2 turns from wounds. That leaves an opponent's assault squad entirely invincible in the middle of your lines for a turn, after which it'll be able to charge in and murder more things.

If the fire warriors break and run, you suddenly have a squad stuck right in front of your guns. Hmm, whatever shall we do with that?

Now lets look at footdar. Wraithlords, The Avatar, ect. provide counter charge. You want your squads to sit there and survive so that the giant monstrous creatures can charge in and eat the enemy. Do Tau have a counter charge unit? Not particularly.


Foot armies need a way to deal with assault, either by running and breaking so that the opponent will be stranded in range or by being a complete pain to kill. Shadowsun lets Tau move out of the first category. Congrats.

Also, I'm not sure how you're counting on 4 squads of fire warriors to handle incoming enemies. See, there's these transports in the game. Units can hide in them and be fairly protected from most anti-infantry firepower. Now I'm sure I'll get some comment following the lines of "I has railguns", to which the logical reply is "The enemy has bigger tanks for you to worry about". Realistically, I'd give you one turn of shooting with your fire warriors before an opponent gets a charge off, if he is close combat oriented

An0maly1 wrote:The idea of using four squads of ten fire warriors fighting like a phalanx is definitely a novel one. Especially if you had a squad or two in reserve to come out when the enemy starts closing in.

That's what Kroot in nearby forests are for. Or, if there are no nearby forests, and you're not using them as a screen (against someone who has to close with you to shoot you, coming well within your range), then you can outflank with them to knock out the Long Fang support or overwhelm their objective.

The reason I play it this way is because I've been playing Eldar for years. Well, once you've been playing an army for years, you start to play with different, more risky builds. I threw together this 'layered' list of Footdar and not only did it work, but it was fun to play! A layered castle of Harlequins in front (with Eldrad attached, as to take advantage of the Veil of Tears), with 10 fire dragons behind them, then 2 squads of 10 guardians with Bright Lances behind them, the Avatar in the center, two units of Dark Reapers on the back line and a Wraithlord with a Bright Lance.

I have since considered replacing the Wraithlord with Scatter-Laser Warwalkers, but it is a lot of fun and, in my meta, competitive. I saw the same potential in Tau (but without Fearless, unfortunately), so I started to build them that way.


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Irdiumstern wrote:
If the fire warriors break and run, you suddenly have a squad stuck right in front of your guns. Hmm, whatever shall we do with that?

So, either way you've lost the unit, right? Now, what happens if you don't kill that unit that is about to charge you again? The same thing, no? Or, you can dump all your firepower into them hoping to clear them, just to allow another unit to take their place. The point (if you had read my previous post) was to break up the enemy - get them as battered as you can (or completely dead) before they reach your lines. But, if it doesn't work out, you may always CHOOSE not to use when it is not advantageous. If you want your Broadsides to be LD 10 with a re-roll, but you want your Fire Warriors to break (and then become Ld 10 in the subsequent phase) you can do that by simply not using her Leadership or not using the Ethereal's Inspiring Presence. *gasp*!

Also, it seems like you have this notion that the Tau army won't be doing anything until someone closes with them. Silly rabbit.

Irdiumstern wrote:Now lets look at footdar. Wraithlords, The Avatar, ect. provide counter charge. You want your squads to sit there and survive so that the giant monstrous creatures can charge in and eat the enemy. Do Tau have a counter charge unit? Not particularly.

You would counter-charge with a Wraithlord? One of the worst CC units in the Eldar Codex? Maybe to tarpit something. . .

And Tau do have counter-charge units. 10 Kroot and 10 Kroot Hounds are 60 attacks on the charge for around 130 pts.. I'll take that as a counter-attack.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Foot armies need a way to deal with assault, either by running and breaking so that the opponent will be stranded in range or by being a complete pain to kill. Shadowsun lets Tau move out of the first category. Congrats.

I love attitudes like this. It's what loses tournaments. Once again, you may CHOOSE not to use this if it is not advantageous to your situation.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Also, I'm not sure how you're counting on 4 squads of fire warriors to handle incoming enemies.

Ranged weaponry? And I didn't say anything about "counting" on them. I even made a caveat for some of them dying

Irdiumstern wrote:
See, there's these transports in the game. Units can hide in them and be fairly protected from most anti-infantry firepower. Now I'm sure I'll get some comment following the lines of "I has railguns", to which the logical reply is "The enemy has bigger tanks for you to worry about".

And here's where the most misconceptions of foot lists come from. Why am I worried about 3 ravagers? Why am I worried about a landraider with lascannons and multi-meltas? Why am I worried about Vendettas or Predators or Riflemen Dreads or Long Fangs? They excel at taking out heavily armored targets with few shots. You know what worries me? Vindicators, Demolishers maybe normal Lemans, maybe Manticores. I don't see normal Lemans or Demolishers that much. I see few Vindicators. The manticores are a worry, but Markerlights and Railguns help with those.

Against Dark Eldar - why shoot a Ravager that can kill 3 things at most a turn, when I could shoot a Raider that can get their troops in my firing line? Why shoot a Predator when I can shoot a Rhino and stop the flamers from driving in? Shooting a Land Raider is sweet either way though, cause you get the best of both worlds.

But, keep spreading your ideas, please. It makes it easier to catch people off guard with lists like this.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Realistically, I'd give you one turn of shooting with your fire warriors before an opponent gets a charge off, if he is close combat oriented

Well good. Anecdotal evidence backed up by theoryhammer is what I'll remember when my enemy is bearing down on me!

I'll admit that I don't see a ton of Tau lists, but my experience has been consistent, aside from my first game against them when I was still adjusting to 5th and TLoS. That doesn't mean my anecdotal observations can't be incorrect, given the small sample size.

Oh, and fear the Long Fangs. any unit that spits out 5 BS4 frag missiles per turn is worth paying attention to.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:I'll admit that I don't see a ton of Tau lists, but my experience has been consistent, aside from my first game against them when I was still adjusting to 5th and TLoS. That doesn't mean my anecdotal observations can't be incorrect, given the small sample size.

Oh, and fear the Long Fangs. any unit that spits out 5 BS4 frag missiles per turn is worth paying attention to.

The anecdotal comment wasn't really directed at you. And I agree about Long Fangs. And I'm sure your experience with Tau has been consistent. But that's why I mentioned above that my list isn't conventional and it is not like something most would see out of Tau. It doesn't take advantage of one of their strengths - mobility. But, when I started building Tau, I began to wonder if the conventional method of thinking was really the way to go. I know it sounds kinda corny, but the 'Patient Hunter' ideal is what I was going for - it really describes the way my army is meant to play out.

Stand still with strong long ranged weaponry and remove the enemy's mobility. Once that is accomplished, pepper the enemy with shots as he closes in. Once he gets close, spring the 'Hunter' onto him in the form of Suits (w/plasma rifles or flamers), Kroot and Kroot Hounds and a load of rapid-fire shots. If he survives that, then perhaps it was my day to die.

Also, let's be clear - I wasn't advocating that anyone use a build like mine. I enjoy this kind of thing - finding new and interesting ways to build a list to keep my enemy on their toes. But, as I said before, it is definitely not for everyone. Play what you enjoy, not what you think will win 100% of the time. I came in here to simply defend Shadowsun, who doesn't get nearly the amount of credit I think she should.

She basically gives your army Marneus Calgar's God of War special rule. Add that to a Bonding Knife and you can break as you see fit (sorta) and regroup to rapid-fire the next round.

Pro tip: Don't buy any of the HQ's for tau other than a battlesuit if you don't want to get rolled.

juraigamer wrote:Pro tip: Don't buy any of the HQ's for tau other than a battlesuit if you don't want to get rolled.

Almarine wrote:

An0maly1 wrote:The range of the guns are 30 inches, not 24, which if your smart could be used advantageously.

They still rapid-fire at 12", not that it matters a whole lot. And yeah, maybe I'm stupid but if I ran tau I'd keep the fire warriors in their fishies and focus points on real guns.

I mean they can't even take special weapons. Are you supposed to just dump them in some bushes and use them to deny area (to av11- and sloggers with a 5+ save without mobile cover)?

I didn't mean that you were stupid. I meant that with some tricky positioning you can keep 24 inch rifles between the 25-30 inch sweet spot for firing.

The tau army has two approaches. The first is mech tau. You see, the disadvantage with special weaponry for individual infantry is a lot of them are heavy. Not very useful for mechanized warfare.

The other is the invulnerable bubble. Basically stock up on shooters that force the enemy into attrition and hope you can shoot em all down before two many of them break through. The problem with this is when your enemy uses a horde arrow approach. Basically form a thin arrow very tightly packed. Depending on the tau's template weapons will determine the width of it. Sure the fire warriors will rip through one squad, maybe two, but then another two squads arrive virtually unscathed right in front of our faces. Game over.

The solution is to use screening units, like piranhas for vehicles, and kroot backed up by gun drones for infantry.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Realistically, I'd give you one turn of shooting with your fire warriors before an opponent gets a charge off, if he is close combat oriented

Um... the range of pulse rifles is 30". Assuming you are barely over 30" away (the tau player didn't shoot at you already, did he?), you move 6" in (making you just barely more than 24" away). Then, you may run a further d6 (let's assume you roll a 6) and now you are just barely over 18" away.

Fire Warriors fire their pulse rifles. Pew pew pew.

You get to move 6" (you are just managing to be over 12" away now) and then run a further d6 (you rolled a 6 again? No problem!) to make you just barely over 6" away, not enough to assault,even if you have fleet.

Fire Warriors fire their pulse rifles, rapid fire mode. pew pew pew pew pew.

Congratulations, the fire warriors have managed two turns of shooting before the opponent can charge.

Rhino moves in 12". Fire Warriors Pew Pew Pew and do Nothing. Rhino moves forward 12" and lets troops disembark, possibly behind hull. I'm within 6" and able to fire. Not sure how you're expecting everyone to walk towards you letting you blast them.

You're paying a minimum of 225 points for your rerolling leadership. If your broadsides got charged somehow and are stuck in close combat, you've gone so wrong that rerolling their leadership defiantly won't save you. If you don't use something for much at all, why bother bringing it?

I'd counter charge with the 3 wraithlords and the avatar hiding behind whatever eldar unit took the charge. 4 monstrous creatures generally put out some hurt.

And Tau do have counter-charge units. 10 Kroot and 10 Kroot Hounds are 60 attacks on the charge for around 130 pts.. I'll take that as a counter-attack.

Yes, that is a good cc unit. It's also not that fast and easily killed by shooting. If they sit in cover they may or may not be close enough to your lines to help. If they're out dealing with the enemies backfield, they won't be close enough to your lines to help. Why bother with fire warriors if you have to use a superior unit to save them.

I love attitudes like this. It's what loses tournaments. Once again, you may CHOOSE not to use this if it is not advantageous to your situation.

Why bother bringing something if you intend not to use it? It's not like etherals and Shadowsun have other redeeming qualities

And here's where the most misconceptions of foot lists come from. Why am I worried about 3 ravagers?

Because for a foot list, tau are rather low model count, with several elite models in small squads. Your suits make some nice anti-tank weapon targets while the rest of your opponent's army can shell infantry. Either way, you'll have to worry about your opponent's heavier vehicles or face a game with only your firewarriors.

Irdiumstern wrote:Rhino moves in 12". Fire Warriors Pew Pew Pew and do Nothing.

To be fair, fire warriors glance a rhino on 6. That has to be worth mentioning, even if they're likely to miss 50% of their shots and the rhino has probably popped smoke.

Missile pods are for shooting at Rhinos.

tau Suffer as of the moment they need an update I played tau with sucess for 7 months about thirty games aganist space marines foot based small games you might win some of those but otherwise you are gonna lose 80 percent of the time your transports suck and you get crushed by guardsman in assualt and and outshot by wolves who coincdentally beat you up in cc.

I never shoot at rhinos with Fire warriors. Any Rhino worth shooting at usually is close enough that it's already dumped it's payload of tactical marines and is ready to make my Fire Warriors into Boot polish.