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Hi all,

With all of their weapon options, what is the best way to equip DW termies? I'm talking footsloggers here. Should I mix in some SS/TH or just keep it all storm bolters to max out shooting? I'm a little lost here...

Thanks for the help!

For my non-command squads I have been testing a bunch of configurations, but the one I like right now is: two TH/SS, a TLC, a SB/PW (sarge) and a CML/SB/CF model. Trying to come up with a way to work a third TH/SS in there though.

I've been testing a few options too. I think you need at least 3 TH/SS, personally, unless the squad's sole intended use is to guard a backfield objective (in which case you might get away with 2). So:

2 x TH/SS, TH/SS/Cyclone, SB/PF, SB/CF.

Yeah, mostly TH/SS is best and if you want a bit of firepower go for CML. they survive longer that way.

The only 2 configs I've found worth using:

4xTH/SS with CML, SB/CF
5x TH/SS with CML

I tried using a backfield SB squad just for some extra dakka but I found that 4 stormbolters is almost no firepower worth mentioning and the loss in survivability and CC endurance was simply not worth it.

Thanks for the replies everyone. So is it just not worth it to arm the squad with any storm bolters? I was hoping to get some dakka out of the squads, but it seems like you really need 5xsb to make it work in which case you get no TH/SS.

Also, if I'm not going to be mixing storm bolters in, is it worth putting any TLCs in there? Or with the new 3+ are TH/SS simply king, not worth taking something else?

I am not impressed by 5 termies with storm bolters as shooting. I like 5 TH/SS and a CML. That way you can shrug off most shooting and still fire two krak missiles per turn. I think that is a lot better than maybe killing one marine with your SBs

For me, the SBs are there for a bit more effectiveness against hordes; I figure if I'm having one for the chainfist, I may as well have another one too. Four S4 shots and a couple of frag missiles might not be much, but it's handy for whittling orks or gaunts down, probably while trying to avoid CC with them till the last viable moment.

I suppose there's a place in a majority DW army for a SB-heavy squad with HF, if you anticipate many opportunities to DS in and torch sub-MEQ AP2-heavy squads and for some reason can't use a Dread for this. But that's about it in terms of places for a non-predominantly TH/SS DW squad; even if you end up objective camping and going to ground for 3+ cover, TH/SS will last just as long - and get to return fire with CML.

So, is the bandwagon on the Cyclone so good that it has now eclipsed the assault cannon? Heavy 2 is great and all, but 4 rending shots have let me crack Land Raiders...

Your AC might be a bit better at killing A14 when it's in range, but it is a bit of a long shot and forgoes the benefits of SS/TH. I'd be more inclined to have supporting units in a more dedicated anti-armour role and laugh it up as your CML softens up hordes, Dreads and MEQ's before the banhammers finish them off.

So what I'm hearing is that there's no point in trying to soften up MEQs with SBs before you pound them with powerfists, which, after all, attack just like the hammers? The survivability conferred by the 3+ is just more worth it, right?

What about DSing versus MEQs where you have to sit still for a turn and can only shoot?

Sounds about right.

My Tyranids used to have a regular DA opponent who took SB-heavy DW squads, and even there cover saves meant the extra antihorde from the SB's wasn't really significant; I'd have been more afraid of slightly better CC antihorde from the odd LC/LC, or greater durability against RC's/MC's/Warpblasts from TH/SS.

If I were to DS DW against MEQs, the likely payoff of a round of SB fire doesn't really compare to doubling your durability against Las/Plas/PW. And at any rate, you'd probably get a better payoff from firing two Kraks at the back of a Dred or Rhino chassis vehicle.

DS firepower is more the focus of Dreads and Sternguard, I can't think of many DS firepower missions for DW other than the aforementioned killing a sub-MEQ squad with HF.

After a bunch of games testing, I've found the 3 TH/SS and 2 LC setup (with the CML on one of the LC models) to be about the best "all comers" setup... The SBs really didn't do much of anything in my lists, and the SB/PW of the standard SGT was replaced by LCs for the extra attack and rerolls to wound. Getting a bunch of attacks at I4 is sometimes pretty useful... And 3-4 squads backed up with Typhoons (MM/TML) and probably DNs are the bane of light vehicles at least...

How does wound allocation factor into this. A full TH/SS squad only has three different types of setups: Sergeant with TH/SS, regulars with TH/SS, and TH/SS+CML.

Would it be better to take full advantage of wound allocation to minimize the number of termies that have to take a 3+ save as opposed to the 2+?

Sergeants don't count for wound allocation games in that scenario actually. But the truth of it is that for 1 wound models in a pre-set squad size that is so low, the extra 3++ instead of 5++ is just always going to be worth it imo, especially once you faill one or two. Yes, diverse gear setup still helps, but its just pretty minor in the scheme of things.

> Would it be better to take full advantage of wound allocation to minimize the number of termies that have to take a 3+ save as opposed to the 2+?

The only way I can make sense of this is if a Storm Shield's 3++ replaces TA's 2+ as well as its 5++. Is this how you're interpreting a model with a storm shield has a 3+ invulnerable save, or am I misunderstanding your question?

Also, w00t for 100th post

Magister187 wrote:Sergeants don't count for wound allocation games in that scenario actually. But the truth of it is that for 1 wound models in a pre-set squad size that is so low, the extra 3++ instead of 5++ is just always going to be worth it imo, especially once you faill one or two. Yes, diverse gear setup still helps, but its just pretty minor in the scheme of things.

Why doesn't the sergeant count? He is given a separate stat line.

lindsay40k wrote:> Would it be better to take full advantage of wound allocation to minimize the number of termies that have to take a 3+ save as opposed to the 2+?

The only way I can make sense of this is if a Storm Shield's 3++ replaces TA's 2+ as well as its 5++. Is this how you're interpreting a model with a storm shield has a 3+ invulnerable save, or am I misunderstanding your question?

Also, w00t for 100th post

I'm talking about allocating all AP2/1 hits to a single model so it is the only one that has to take the 3+ when the squad is saturated with fire. This is only possible when you have a unit in which each model is armed differently.

Right, I'm with you now.

Depends on how many AP2/1-focussed units you're likely to encounter, I suppose. If Genestealers, Demolishers, Howling Banshees, Plas cannon squads and Terminators are very rare in your meta, then you might get away with just a smattering of SS/TH to bear the brunt of the odd Plas pistol or Power Klaw.

Even if that's the case, when news gets out of a DW army in the area, I'd expect the number of units focussing on AP2/1 to increase.