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I have wery tricky question which have asked from myself wery soon:
Which C'tan I choose? Tere is many uses for both but wich is better? Or are them both good?
Tell me your opinion and why it is so.
This is my first poll I make so there can be mistakes.

Nightbringer: beast in CC but nothing else, slow and pretty easy kill only 4++ save
deceiver: good in CC and nice tricks, and IIRC cheaper

C'tan overall: overpriced, for only 4++ save and can be insta killed (skulltaler i'm looking at you)
so....maybe deceiver?

It's really a toss up as to what you see is better in their respective abilities.

Characteristics:

They both have high T and S with the same saves and wounds across the board.

The Nightbringer as better overall fighting stats, but the Deceiver has higher I.

If you face lots of Marines, that I5 makes a difference and on that sole characteristic, is worth taking the Deceiver. If you want a bigger beat stick, take the Nightbringer.

Abilities:

They all share the same C'Tan abilities (some of them outdated).

The Nightbringer comes with 3 abilities:

Lightning Arc- Essentially a half range lascannon.
Gaze of Death- personally centered large blast template Str 4 hit with no armor save. Great for hordes.
Etheric Temptest- Lash of Submission like effect but induces fall back and only works on things that have less than 4 Str.

The Deceiver comes with 4 abilities:

Deceive-24" range pinning or morale test, even if normally automatic.
Grand Illusion- redeploy your models limited number of times.
Dread- one unit may get to hit only on 6's if fails Leadership.
Misdirect- consolidate out of opponent's charges.

The short version is that the Nightbringer dishes out more damage than the Deceiver ever could. The Deceiver however has unusual rules that make it an interesting option, especially if you like to confuse and frustrate an opponent.

My personal preference is the Deceiver, though many others like the Nightbringer.

Heres a little moan and groan towards the C'tan

http://www.rollwithit.org.uk/?p=1495

Thank you for the answers!
For the unforgiven, 4+ inv. is enought. Can you imagine 3+ inv. toughness 8 god? And its wery rare to fight against skulltaker, yes i play against you lot but still.

Deciever. The Nightbringer is just too slow. Both of them have the problem of getting a free "KILL ME!" sign over their heads, as they're gonna be the first thing your enemy fires every anti-tank weapon at though. You might think that T8 W5 4++ gets you to where you want, but they die to volume of fire just as everything else, the only difference being that this is volume of anti-tank fire.

Nightbringer. I don't play necrons, but someone at my flgs does, and he always tanks up in a corner with 2 monoliths, and the nightbringer is always lurking behind them, ready to curbstomp anything that tries to beat up the 'crons in assault. The nightbringer is slow, but if you play like this guy does, it doesn't need speed.

thats a good plan to be fair...

Crap for Objectives like...

but amusing none the less !

Thats definately the best use for the nightbringer - then other heavy weapons can go back to failing to destroy the monoliths

Nightbringer is a better option in the above castle-up scenario because of his Etheric Tempest power. If you play that strategy what you least want are CC based armies storming that nigh-invulnerable fortress.

Etheric tempest means no Ork Boyz will come through, no Dark Eldar Wyches or anything else Eldar or Dark Eldar, no Tyranid gaunt swarms, etc...if it's not a marine or an expensive unit like Ork Nobz, it's not coming through. And those expensive units are usually small in number, so the Nightbringer will om nom nom them for breakfast in countercharge.

Deceiver, while having great tricks up his sleeve, just doesn't offer this game-changing insurance policy against assaulty armies.

thats a good plan to be fair...

Crap for Objectives like...

but amusing none the less !

Thats why you have a veil lord standing by with a unit of warriors
Simply teleport on the last turn and an easy win.



Out of the 2 i would have said night bringer.
allways has been my fave of the 2 due to the damage he can do.

However, that was before the new GK came out.

Deciever however will do fine for drawing them in to be shot at.
Aslong as they charge me i can simply laugh and run away each time

Araenion wrote:Nightbringer is a better option in the above castle-up scenario because of his Etheric Tempest power. If you play that strategy what you least want are CC based armies storming that nigh-invulnerable fortress.

Etheric tempest means no Ork Boyz will come through, no Dark Eldar Wyches or anything else Eldar or Dark Eldar, no Tyranid gaunt swarms, etc...if it's not a marine or an expensive unit like Ork Nobz, it's not coming through. And those expensive units are usually small in number, so the Nightbringer will om nom nom them for breakfast in countercharge.

Deceiver, while having great tricks up his sleeve, just doesn't offer this game-changing insurance policy against assaulty armies.

This. The Deceiver is actually the one that runs out and ties things up and screws with your opponent's game. He can choose to just drop out of combat at any time...it's pretty cheap, but it works. The Nightbringer is actually the defensive one, staying back and threatening anything that tries to assault the rest of your gunline army, and using Etheric Tempest to push them away.

Bring neither. Both are slow, expensive, and nearly useless (so like most of the necron book...) Bring more useful models, they are in there, you just got to look

Yeah, because Necrons just have SO many options.

Oh wait, no they don't.

The Nightbringer, standing behind 2-3 Monoliths, with lots of warriors behind it, is about the only competitive list Necrons can make. The only other thing I've even seen people try is Destoyer spam. But really, the Deceiver can almost do the same things that the Nightbringer can, so really, it's just a matter of preference, but using one or the other really will help.

Nightbringer model >>>> deceiver model. So even if you want to play deceiver, I'd use the other model for it!

Thank you for the answers , really aprishiate it!
I have always wanted to play destroyer spam but when 4 of my destros stoled, well you no. For notabot187, yes, C'tans are expensive but what you can do to them if you dont have ig mass hw army or insta monster hq? Nothing! They will die but in normal sized games they can do lots of damage and deal with enemy deathstar and all other Cc units.
For ruminator, I like deceivers model. It looks good so is there problems in its constructing? Only thing is that its metallic, I hate metallic figures!

UberhAxTHC wrote:Yeah, because Necrons just have SO many options.

Oh wait, no they don't.

The Nightbringer, standing behind 2-3 Monoliths, with lots of warriors behind it, is about the only competitive list Necrons can make. The only other thing I've even seen people try is Destoyer spam. But really, the Deceiver can almost do the same things that the Nightbringer can, so really, it's just a matter of preference, but using one or the other really will help.

The C'tan + monoliths and warriors list is a "force a draw" or turtle and hope for a chance to win list. Certain individuals on this forum have done well with this, but not by spamming warriors. In fact the one in question brings min warriors, and goes with wraith wing. Personally I don't think that is the "best" that necrons are capable of, but its certainly better than most alternatives.

Options that are actually good in a necron book (compared to their alternatives), since you don't believe they have options: Destroyers, monoliths (don't actually think they are good, but are a keystone to some lists) heavy destroyers, wraiths (requires max to get to a useful threshold) tomb scorpions (requires a certain type of list to use well) immortals,and necron lord (only because he has a res orb and isn't a C'tan). Notice how many of the good choices compete for the FA and HS slots, which means they have more than one list archetype that can be competitive. Not as many as more modern codexes, and "competitive" necrons have to be qualified by the fact that it requires generalship that most players aren't up to (as necrons are a horrible overpointed army with antitank, range, and army special rule issues).

For me Destroyers are infinitely better than wraiths (awaits the fury of Dash), but on the whole you do need to tak a C'tan to be competitive with Necrons. Everything else just gets owned so easily.

liam0404 wrote:For me Destroyers are infinitely better than wraiths (awaits the fury of Dash), but on the whole you do need to tak a C'tan to be competitive with Necrons. Everything else just gets owned so easily.

Define "owned" Is it similar to what happens to C'tan when exposed to long range high S firepower (which isn't firing at the monlith since its unlikely to do anything...)?

Sure they are CC monsters, but that is the problem, isn't it? To make use of their 300+ pts of prowess, you have to have it in a position where it can assault things. Due to their rather slow speed, means they are usually used in the counter assault role. So to be able to assault the rest of the necrons, all I have to do is kill this model that only has a 4+ save? Man what am I going to do with all these lascannon and ML shots? Oh, you are hiding it? Well I guess I'll just have to assault anything else in the list (all of which is costly), and accept the fact that my 200 pt hammer unit is going to get whipped when the C'tan finally shows up.

Cant you not hide any of the ctan behind monoliths or other models because of the "above all others" rule it has?

I think abowe all others is rule from 4th or 3rd ed. It would be insane if you could move wounds from god to monolith for example.

My cousins a 'Cron. Our largest games are 5k of points and he generally uses the Deceiver. It has more tricks which means there are more tactical uses and advantages. I play guard though so the Deceiver is the better buy. Either one of them are overkill against guard and both can take out tanks fairly easily so it's usually better to go for the cheaper Deceiver.

So what can deceiver do that nightbringer cant? He can redeplo limited number of units and force some units to make ld or pinning test wich is passed pretty easily. Against guard, i think that nightbringer is better against guard with his half ranged lascannon.

Jone96 wrote:So what can deceiver do that nightbringer cant?

The Deceiver can't get caught up by suicidal squads of Guardsmen assaulting him to keep him tied up and away from the tanks.
And he can slingshot around the board. Your turn, assault a unit, hack at it a bit. His turn, run away 2d6". Your turn, assault another unit. Repeat as necessary.

The ability to leave combat is a pretty good advantage. Deceiver can engage a unit and deny the opponants shooting phase then leave the combat next turn.

loota boy wrote:Nightbringer. I don't play necrons, but someone at my flgs does, and he always tanks up in a corner with 2 monoliths, and the nightbringer is always lurking behind them, ready to curbstomp anything that tries to beat up the 'crons in assault. The nightbringer is slow, but if you play like this guy does, it doesn't need speed.

I hear ya, kind of a pain and rather cheap if you ask me but what can you do. Especially tough to tackle when your orks have little to deal with monoliths.

Yes, sure deceiver can run away and do tricks against guard but if he gets somehow so far he should make lots of damage against em. Still he gets out of combat in first round of it cause igs ld. There may be comissar but it dont matter then, do you run away with deceiver or use that horde killer with nightbringer.
I am nightbringer freak so why I made this poll is that people could tell me why Deceiver is so damn good! It have only failed me in those few games that i have played him.

skycapt44 wrote:

loota boy wrote:Nightbringer. I don't play necrons, but someone at my flgs does, and he always tanks up in a corner with 2 monoliths, and the nightbringer is always lurking behind them, ready to curbstomp anything that tries to beat up the 'crons in assault. The nightbringer is slow, but if you play like this guy does, it doesn't need speed.

I hear ya, kind of a pain and rather cheap if you ask me but what can you do. Especially tough to tackle when your orks have little to deal with monoliths.

Thank you. Really, all you can do is hit um with deffrollas or play kan wall. I play a not-so-competitive list, with boomwagons and full stormboy mob w/Zagstruk. I have no kans, and only 2 deffrollas at 2000pt. Zaggy can pop a 'lith with a bit of luck, but then gets eaten by nightbringer. And if he doesn't pop it, you waste a 300 pt unit. It's a major pain for the boys to fight..

Just want to chime in here again, but you dont need a C'tan, and you dont get "owned" for not taking one.

Lets think about this shall we?
2 of the new and top played armies are GK and DE.
One will ID either C'tan.
The other will hit him with a volley of poisoned rounds from thier basic troops.

At a tournament i would go as far to say they are now more of a liability than a great help.
Use the extra points for an orb lord to go with the 1st lord.
Or, take a Dlord with a scythe and some wraith friends.

Points are better off bolstering things that can still work to some degree.

Wraith friends or the Scarab swarms, with the lightning arc on the lord to bring the pain to mobs.