Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hq
Logan

rune priest
terminator armour/storm bolter
jaws
hurricane

wolf priest
combi melta
wtt
melta bombs
saga of the hunter

elites
dreadnought
assault cannon
heavy flamer

scouts x5
mark of the wulfen
power weapon
melta bombs

troops
grey hunters x10
melta gun
plasma gun
power fist

wolf guard x5
terminator armor x5
1x pair of wolf claws
2x wolf claw / stormbolter
1x assault cannon / power fist
1x thunder hammer / frost weapon

wolfguard x 7
terminator armour x 5
1x cyclone missile launcher
4x heavy flamer / chainfist
arjac
1 in power armour with combi melta, mark of the wulfen and melta bombs

fast attack
land speeder typhoon
multimelta
typhoon launcher

heavy support
long fangs
2x plasma cannons
1x lascannon
1x heavy bolter
1x missile launcher

should be 1976 points in total

let me know your thoughts

this army is just for fun I'm not looking at entering any tournies

I may swap the dread and the power weapon on the scout for a pod and a predator destructor with lascannons sponsons


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the priest and wolf guard in power armour go with the scouts and reek havoc on behind enemy lines

Maxwell80 wrote:Hq
Logan

rune priest
terminator armour/storm bolter to go with the termies?
jaws
hurricane these are two shooting attacks but you are in a CC unit?

wolf priest Scouts are fine as is. Do not waste these points.
combi melta
wtt
melta bombs
saga of the hunter

elites
dreadnought Why?
assault cannon
heavy flamer

scouts x5 why MotW and a PW? Pick one. Also, no melta gun?! I suggest dropping the PW and giving the same dude both the MotW and the Melta (since not having two CC weapons isn't wasted on him now)
mark of the wulfen
power weapon
melta bombs

troops
grey hunters x10 why a melta and a plasma? jsut go two melta, you lose one potential shot and gain reliability. Also the fist is a waste on a regular GH. only 1A base and very expensive. Also, where is their ride?!
melta gun
plasma gun
power fist

wolf guard x5
terminator armor x5
1x pair of wolf claws
2x wolf claw / stormbolter
1x assault cannon / power fist
1x thunder hammer / frost weapon

wolfguard x 7
terminator armour x 5
1x cyclone missile launcher
4x heavy flamer / chainfist
arjac
1 in power armour with combi melta, mark of the wulfen and melta bombs MotW negates his extra attack you are paying for. And don't you already have melta bombs on all of the scouts? Trim the fat here. This is where you take a fist if you really want one.

fast attack One AV10 speeder is a dead speeder. Are you going for "duality"? I think this is an expensive route to go. Duality is accomplished much more cheaply with a MM/HF. Effective long range shooting is done better with typhoon/HB.
land speeder typhoon
multimelta
typhoon launcher

heavy support
long fangs Uhhhh what is going on here with the weapon choices? pick one or two and stick with it.
2x plasma cannons
1x lascannon
1x heavy bolter
1x missile launcher

should be 1976 points in total

let me know your thoughts

this army is just for fun I'm not looking at entering any tournies won't be fun long when you do not get that "W"

I may swap the dread and the power weapon on the scout for a pod and a predator destructor with lascannons sponsons no


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the priest and wolf guard in power armour go with the scouts and reek havoc on behind enemy lines I was not aware scouts could take a Pack Leader. Also, those guys are liekly not going to "reek havoc" on anybody. Give them an objective like opening back field tanks or tying up devastators/lootas.

Also, where are your transports? Are you telling me that you are going to foot slog a terribly cost inefficient army and bank solely on wound allocation?

There are also a tone of points spent in special/ICs. You have Logan, Runic Priest, Wolf Priest, and Arjac. That is a TON of points.

I am not sure where this list is meant to go or do but I think you need to focus a bit.

This is my first army btw lol what if I drop the priest and the speeder and get some transport

Hq
Logan

rune priest
terminator armour/storm bolter
Tempest Wrath
Storm Caller

Termi Wolf Guard x10
arjac
3x PW/SB
2x thunder hammer
2x cyclone missile launcher
2x chainfist
LR Crusader


2x5x scouts
mark of the wulfen
Melta Gun
melta bombs

troops
3x10x grey hunters
2xmelta gun
Rhino

fast attack
2x land speeder typhoon
multimelta/HF

heavy support
2x5x long fangs
4x missile launcher

I am not sure what the points are at now because I added more than I deleted. This army has other issues as well, like the fact that so much is relyign on reserve rolls that the army comes in piecemeal. Generally speaking though the most efficient units in the dex are the GHs, Scouts, LFs, and Speeders. You have all of those in there but do they harmonize? I tried to stay true to your original build as much as possible


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forget the capacity for SW Crusaders but if you need to make room then make the cyclone ML's pack leaders for the LFs. Ld9 and two more missiles is always a good thing for ML LFs.

To answer the question of the Wolf Scouts, yes they can be given a Wolf Guard Pack Leader, and yes they can use Behind Enemy Lines when they have one attached, because the Pack Leader is not an Independent Character. It's in the most current Space Wolves FAQ, which I recommend you check out because it clarifies a lot of rules issues that the Codex created. That said, the Wolf Scouts CANNOT use Behind Enemy Lines if they have an attached Wolf Priest/Rune Priest or other Independent Character, because the character does not have Behind Enemy Lines and thus the unit loses it. Additionally, if you attach an Independent Character of any kind that does NOT have Saga of the Hunter, the Wolf Scouts cannot even infiltrate or use Scout.

Moving on, I'd like to say that your list is a general amalgamation of unnecessary upgrades and units that lack cohesion. I've mentioned this before, but for a list to be successful in 5th edition it needs to have Mobility, Durability, Duality and Redundancy:

Mobility - Transports for every unit that can take them. Yes, even Long Fangs. Razorbacks are perfect for them and it lets them deploy more reliably in Dawn of War. If your list lacks mobility, your opponent will run circles around you. That said, just because you HAVE mobility does not mean you always have to use it in every mission, but it should be there regardless.

Durability - Again, transports for every unit. Without transports, your opponent can go right to shooting your infantry. Taking transports forces him to break them open before he can shoot your troops, and if he fails, his anti-infantry weapons have nothing to fire at.

Duality - Each unit should be able to deal with more than one threat. Grey Hunters with 2x Flamers lack the ability to open up a vehicle and then assault the guys that come out. Similarly, Grey Hunters without a Power Fist in the unit (usually in the form of a Wolf Guard Pack Leader with the fist) cannot stand up to Monstrous Creatures or Walkers that assault them. Giving your units a dual purpose is important, or you run the risk of not having the right tools for the job. This doesn't mean every unit needs to be a Swiss Army Knife, but each unit should be able to face off against at least two types of units.

Redundancy - Simply put, why take one when you can have two at twice the price? Imperial Guard are very familiar with this, and they call it the "Rule of Threes", which says "Take three, because one will miss and one will be dead". If you only have one of a particular unit/weapon and it fills a specific role (Land Speeders, Dreadnoughts and Vindicators are good examples), then you lose that functionality if your opponent destroys or incapacitates it with lucky shots. Taking more than one means your opponent has to devote more resources to taking out ALL of those potential threats, or risk them doing their job when it comes around to your turn. Does this mean you should always have two of every unit? Certainly not. But it does mean that fragile units that fill a specialized role on the battlefield should probably have a backup, because it's likely that a loner will be destroyed before it does anything.

So, taking all of the above into consideration and looking over your list, we can see that you have a lone Dreadnought and a lone Land Speeder, both of which should be taken in pairs. You have a footslogging unit of Grey Hunters and two footslogging units of Wolf Guard, all three of which lack mobility and contain a pile of upgrades that would be better taken elsewhere (the fist on the Grey Hunters) or better left off all together (TH and FW on the same model, 4x Heavy Flamers which is actually illegal, etc...) to save points. Also, your Long Fangs need to be equipped with all Missile Launchers. That way they all have a cheap weapon that can fire as anti-tank AND anti-infantry.

To start, I would ditch Logan all together. He is really only useful if you intend to field a Loganwing list, and I would not suggest going that route for a new player. Next, I would try adding some additional Grey Hunters in place of the Wolf Guard, and use the extra points to double up on Land Speeders and Long Fangs. Anything left over should first be spent on giving every unit a Rhino or Razorback depending on size, and Wolf Guard pack leaders for your Grey Hunters and Wolf Scouts. Finally, replace the Dreadnought with an Autocannon/Lascannon Predator. The higher armor gives it a better chance of survival as a loner, and the number of weapons makes it harder to suppress than a Dreadnought.

Of course that's just my opinion, and you are free to do as you like, but I think even for a friendly list you can build it to be successful. I recommend looking through these forums, because there are thousands of Space Wolves lists posted here, and a lot of good commentary both competitive and friendly in nature.

Hope that helps!

That is a great help, the 4x heavy flamers is a typo it should have been 4x wolf claw and storm shield and 1x heavy flamer and chain fist this is mainly just an army made up of units I have collected over the years with no thought of gaming until now so it's a bit of a mash of things I have in my collection hence it's disjointed nature, I'm mainly using it to get to grips with things and what I feel my play style is for helping me decide which army to collect solely for gaming purposes which may be necron if what a bloke at gw told me is true when I asked him if tau were next after GK, I respect you all and will take your advice and see what I can do with what I have and let you know how I get on with them in a game


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One last question though regarding the comment about losing an attack on the wolf guard in power armour, if I took a combi melts fist combination I would just get 2 attacks yes? If I take combo melts and mark of the wulfen then I get 2-7 attacks that are rending, that's how I see it anyway correct me if I'm wrong please

Maxwell80 wrote:
One last question though regarding the comment about losing an attack on the wolf guard in power armour, if I took a combi melts fist combination I would just get 2 attacks yes? If I take combo melts and mark of the wulfen then I get 2-7 attacks that are rending, that's how I see it anyway correct me if I'm wrong please

-A model with a Power Fist NEVER gets an additional attack for having two close combat weapons unless the other close combat weapon is a second Power Fist. A Wolf Guard with a Power Fist and a Combi-Melta would have 2 Power Fist attacks, and +1 if he charged. This would be the same if he had a Bolt Pistol instead of the Combi-Melta. This is why it's always better to take a Wolf Guard with a Power Fist instead of a Grey Hunter with a Power Fist, since the Grey Hunter has only one attack base, and the Wolf Guard has two.
-A model with Mark of the Wulfen replaces his base attacks with D6+1, however there is nothing that states he cannot gain the bonus for having two close combat weapons, and of course he gains the bonus for charging, so a model with Mark of the Wulfen, a Bolt Pistol and a Close Combat Weapon had D6+1 attacks, +1 for having two close combat weapons, +1 for charging, for a total of 4-9 rending attacks on the charge.
-A model with Mark of the Wulfen can NEVER use a special close combat weapon. All attacks made by a model with Mark of the Wulfen are assumed to be made with teeth, and claws, so there is no benefit to giving a model with a Power Fist Mark of the Wulfen as well, because he cannot use the Fist.

Aldarionn wrote:
-A model with Mark of the Wulfen replaces his base attacks with D6+1, however there is nothing that states he cannot gain the bonus for having two close combat weapons, and of course he gains the bonus for charging, so a model with Mark of the Wulfen, a Bolt Pistol and a Close Combat Weapon had D6+1 attacks, +1 for having two close combat weapons, +1 for charging, for a total of 4-9 rending attacks on the charge.

The codex says:

These attacks are made using the marked models' claws and teeth, and hence are not affected by wargear, additional hand weapons and so on, though they may be bolstered by other factors (the bonus for charging, Logan Grimnar's Living Legend ability, etc).

I think that says he doesn't get the bonus for two close combat weapons.

You are correct. It's been a while since I've read that entry because I don't use it that often

My bad.