Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

There's been a little talk about 'how could Flash Gitz ever be useful' in a different thread. Well, a while back, a friend and I had an idea about the Gitz, and how they might actually be usable.


Honestly, the upgrades, Shootier and Blasta, are incredibly useful. More Dakka's also very nice. (or is it More Dakka that gives the extra shot, and Shootier increses STr? Anyways, the one that gives more shots is useful) The fact that Gitz are Nobz, have 'eavy Armour, and can take a Painboy, means that there's plenty of good reason to take Blastas.


With Blastas, and More Dakka, you're getting an Assault 2 weapon that will never have an AP less than 5, 2/3 of the time it'll be AP3, and 1/3 of the time it'll have AP1. With a second wound, 4+4+ from 'eavy armour and FNP, it's unlikely that you'll even take the Gets Hot! wound, and will be very, very survivable anyways.

I mean, looking at it, here's a unit that can absolutely decimate MEqs, and is decent anti-tank as well, when tooled out. A bit expensive, but still... I feel they have a use. Not to mention they're the Ork codex's only access to AP1 effects (much like the Wierdboy is the only access to Melta, and burnas are the only way to get power weapons.)

So, what's Dakka's thoughts on this? does it make no sense at all? Is my Mathhammer completely out the window?

They can be a devastating unit, and the odd time I've played them they have been both that and hilariously fun.

The real problem with them in a more competitive environment is that A) They take up a much too valuable Heavy Support slot and B) They really require a Battlewagon in order to be really useful.

This problem is further compounded by the fact that you can't buy them a Battlewagon as dedicated transport (which is stupid really, considering that they are Nobz and really really obnoxiously rich and extravagant Nobz at that)

That being said, they are a unit of Nobz, meaning that if you want to take them you've gotta do it right, ie they have to be fully kitted out with all 3 Snazzgun upgrades, eavy armor, Painboy cybork bodies and if you have the points Kapn Badrukk. Roll them out in a BW with the right support and watch the fur fly.

I have used them and I like them. I made a all trukk and Battlewagon army and used 2 Mek KFF's I made sure everything was in range of the KFF and I never got out of the Battlewagons. They are really nasty when they have a few times to shoot. I cleaned out a couple of groups of Termies before as they deep stricked. They are like any other ork guy, you never know what is going to happem. That is the best part about them !!

I think one inherent problem too is that their range is so short. If i'm not mistaken, they only have a 24" range, correct?

Maybe? I think it might actually be 36". Nice to be able to stay well out of assault range. Though honstly, shouldn't 24" be fine to avoid being assaulted, as long as you don't move too close?

more dakka is the one that gives an extra shot. Its by far the best of the upgrades.

24 is there range and if i take them i ues all three upgrades. I never take a painboy because i dont like not having 20 shots from the start. I would pay extra point even around 100 for a BS 3 with these guys !

I've run 3 full units of them before, rolling in stolen trukks.

They can be devestatingly effective. They can also wipe themselves out to no good effect or just plain suck.

I had one unit litterally suffer catastrophic weapon malfunction. They were fully kitted out, and all of them rolled a 1 with one or more of their shots. Then all of them died. Hilarious, but a very expensive joke

I figure they'd just be like nobz, but they'd want to shoot instead of assault. They can absolutely be useful, but then again so can any unit thats that expensive.

Flash gitz are not top performers. Thats the hard truth -- don't expect them to perform well in competitive games.
Now, if you are going to run flash gitz, this is how I would recommend doing it.

Nobz with Mo Dakka
Gitz come with 'eavy armor, which puts them at the same cost as a Nob with the same armor. View the gitz to nobs as shoota boys to slugga boys. What do you do with shoota boys? You get them into assault! Gitz should be used the same way. Move up and unload your snazzguns as your moving forward. When your close enough, assault the other unit!

Bring da Boss
As your 'gitz will be assaulting, bringing a warboss with a PK is a great tide-turner, as your Gitz don't come with any klaws. The boss will also benefit from FNP as an added bonus.

Trimmin'z of da Gitz
The only real one worth a damn is the painboy, as it gives your unit FNP, which is very powerful on these models. They still go splat to high STR weapons, but survive a lot more vs. small arms fire and in assault.

While 'more dakka' seems appealing, the fact is that your increasing the average hits from ~3 to ~6. Given that you only have a 50% to get AP3 or lower, that is not really betting odds. Usually your 'gits will have 1-2 rounds of shooting before they are in assault. Your paying 50 points to kill ~3 MEQ is the way I look at it.

The other options skyrocket the cost of the gitz to quickly to really be valueable

Mo Ideaz
Got some Gitz models and don't want to play them. Use them as meganobs. Thier gun matches the TL shoota pretty well, and you can say they have force fields protecting them to give them the 2+ save. You also can custom some klaws onto them. They are 15 points more per model than gitz and a nice option if your stuck with the models.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/344010.page

More Dakka wrote:They can be a devastating unit, and the odd time I've played them they have been both that and hilariously fun.

The real problem with them in a more competitive environment is that A) They take up a much too valuable Heavy Support slot and B) They really require a Battlewagon in order to be really useful.

This problem is further compounded by the fact that you can't buy them a Battlewagon as dedicated transport (which is stupid really, considering that they are Nobz and really really obnoxiously rich and extravagant Nobz at that)

That being said, they are a unit of Nobz, meaning that if you want to take them you've gotta do it right, ie they have to be fully kitted out with all 3 Snazzgun upgrades, eavy armor, Painboy cybork bodies and if you have the points Kapn Badrukk. Roll them out in a BW with the right support and watch the fur fly.

What he said. They *have* a use, and you *can* field them. However, you should *not* field them competitively. OP, you said that they wreck MEQs.....so do Nobs. And Ork Boyz. And Burnas. And Ghazghkull. Pretty much everything wrecks MEQs in the ork arsenal. Its dealing with non-MEQs that requires Orks to think beyond WAAAUGH! SMASH!

The only way to truly field Flash Gitz is at the maximum mob size, kitted out to the nines, led by Kaptin Badrukk and.....


......riding in a giant pirate ship-styled Battlewagon (the new FW Empire landship anyone?).


This way they will look truly awesome and you'll get to pull out lots of fun Pirate-themed sayings for your opponent
"Yarg, thar be oomies needing a kickin."
"But, but, why's da (squig-flavoured) rum gone?"
"Shiver me Red Paint Job, run out da gunz and send for the powder grotz."





Though as Dash says, you will generally find them a lot less effective than other choices if you choose to play in a more competitive environment

I think Flashgits solve a problem the hard way (with BS2 short range AP1-3), rather than the easy way (powerklaws).

Little Pete wrote:The only way to truly field Flash Gitz is at the maximum mob size, kitted out to the nines, led by Kaptin Badrukk and.....


......riding in a giant pirate ship-styled Battlewagon (the new FW Empire landship anyone?).


This way they will look truly awesome and you'll get to pull out lots of fun Pirate-themed sayings for your opponent
"Yarg, thar be oomies needing a kickin."
"But, but, why's da (squig-flavoured) rum gone?"
"Shiver me Red Paint Job, run out da gunz and send for the powder grotz."





Though as Dash says, you will generally find them a lot less effective than other choices if you choose to play in a more competitive environment

Crappy as Flashgits are, if I had a Flashgits themed army pirate army, I *would* dress as a pirate, take them to tournaments and GTs (with my Captain Morgan), and roleplay.

While they can be used to great effect against terminators and monstrous creatures, it's true that it's an expensive solution to a relatively moderate problem.

When I run them, I like to run 5-7 gits with more dakka, shootier, painboy and badrukk. While I can see the appeal of blastas, I have to draw the line somewhere and I feel that shootier makes a more noticeable, consistent difference. I don't really think cybork saves are necessary.

Most armies without a lot of good 'low-ap' targets tend to have good targets for S6 weapondry. (Guard, Eldar + Dark Eldar, specifically.) There'll always be some light transports or heavy weapons squads to apply them to. Thus, shootier lends you a touch more flexibility.

They're a fantastic unit in themselves... but unfortunately far too expensive in points compared to other choices. I'd never take them in a competitive list, but quite possibly in a fun list, especially e.g. a Freebooters pirate list as suggested above, where you can go crazy with fun conversions. That would be a fantastic modelling/painting project.

The sad thing about flash gits is they make nobs less worth-wild than grots; that is, you're better off wasting a heavy support selection on 3 kannons with ammo runts than the minimum number of flash gits with ammo runts.

However, I was thinking seriously last week about putting a small group of flash gits in my 'Ard Boys 2011 list. The list was envisioned under the Dashofpepper dictum of making Ork armies that allow for no obvious target choices, and this list had every FOC selection filled.

From what Labmouse says (and I think I agree) sounds like Gitz are pretty much the Nob equivalent of shoota boyz, which would suggest that a shooty footslogger army might prefer them instead of Nobz. Only problem seems to be that they take up a heavy support slot instead of an Elite slot, which, since most Footsloggin' shooty armies are Kan walls, is a no-no.

The fact they take up a Heavy Support slot and can't take any dedicated transports makes them just plain crap.

Lootas are a much better value for your points.

Their Mintage and deserve some respect! Okay in 2000pts games (Anything below and ya got ne points left!) but in apoc! Put 2 squads in a stompa, something comes behind and thinks I'm gonna kill a super heavy Yipee (Thinking of you Captain Lysander and ya stinky Titan hammer Squad!) and unleash the heavy fire of Doom!

Dashofpepper wrote:

Little Pete wrote:The only way to truly field Flash Gitz is at the maximum mob size, kitted out to the nines, led by Kaptin Badrukk and.....


......riding in a giant pirate ship-styled Battlewagon (the new FW Empire landship anyone?).


This way they will look truly awesome and you'll get to pull out lots of fun Pirate-themed sayings for your opponent
"Yarg, thar be oomies needing a kickin."
"But, but, why's da (squig-flavoured) rum gone?"
"Shiver me Red Paint Job, run out da gunz and send for the powder grotz."





Though as Dash says, you will generally find them a lot less effective than other choices if you choose to play in a more competitive environment

Crappy as Flashgits are, if I had a Flashgits themed army pirate army, I *would* dress as a pirate, take them to tournaments and GTs (with my Captain Morgan), and roleplay.

I totally believe you too. That would be hilarious, and I would enjoy seeing that

This is nice, I felt like the only person on DAKKA that gave a damn about Gits. Yea, play test alot and youll see that the painboy is as much a needed upgrade to gits as he is to nobz. I personally never pay for blastas, simply because for once, the rolling a 1 does scare me. MEQs I dont care I always take plasmas, but in Orks, Ill leave them. And yes, if you can, stick them in a wagon or a trukk. Getting them within range with some sort of protection is just where its at. Also, ALWAYS expect them to do poorly, that way when they surprise you and wipe a command squad/terminators your incredibly happy with them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Also spam them. I did 3 mobs of Gits once, and the amount of fire power was just great. I still lost, but it was awesome

What do you all suppose happened with flash hits conceptually? Nobs and meganobs allowed for wound allocation tactics; why no the same for gits? It would really have helped out.

While this may not totally fit the thread, can you take the following FLash Gitz:

FG1: MD
FG2: MB
FG3: MS
FG4: MD, MB
FG5: MD, MS
FG6: MB, MS
FG7: MD, MB, MS
Painboy

MD= More Dakka
MB= More Blastier
MS= More Shootier

The intent is to obviously abuse the multi-wound rule. Or, is More Blastier et al an "all or nothing" thing?

Honestly, probably would have been best if they'd used Gitz in the same way they use Shoota boyz compared to Slugga boyz. "For +5 points per model, the entire unit of Nobz may exchange their Sluggas and Choppas for Gitfindas, Snazzguns and 'eavy armour" Or whatever. Allow each Git to have a different combination of upgrades on 'is Snazzgun, an voila.

Polonius wrote:I think Flashgits solve a problem the hard way (with BS2 short range AP1-3), rather than the easy way (powerklaws).

That is pretty much the key right there.

Sure I can bring a bandoleer of ultra expensive self sharpening scissors with a mechanical apparatus that swings my arm at the tree to cut it down. It will cost 10,000 dollars and takes 2 years to produce...

Or I can just bring a chainsaw that does the same thing just as well without a lot of ancillery crap that goes into making it good.



Point is that a Lootas job is to kill things. It does it well with a lot of points tied up when a regular nob and a claw do it quicker and better.

Concept wise flash gitz are awesome. A bunch of hefty orks carrying all kinds of funky guns shooting up the enemy and laughing at how puny the other ladz are.

Rules wise they aren't so awesome. Paying the same cost for 'eavy armoured nobz and then forking out more points to make their guns actually useful just isn't right. They deserve better guns at the very least - longer range and assault 2 or 3 would do them justice.

Run a squad of five in a battlewagon with shootir and more dakka in my fire heavy lists surrounded by three kans and Big Mek with a KFF inside. I don't give them a Painboy, don't give them the blasta upgrade, and play them under the following principal, if my enemy charges you and that BW breaks and you got out, your purpose was served, hope you killed a lot you expensive bastards, die.
I have not lost a single game with that list. They have performed, and where I needed them, against those F*n SpaceWolves. (But I usually get good rolls with AP)
They instant kill most things not SM and become a target for my opponent as soon as they actually rolls succesful hits,(when you play orks, more rolls matter,) one I don't really care about, giving my Nob Bikers more time to run around and massacre.
As leading men, where you put mad points into them and make them a serious threat, complete waste of points or not? I would vote yes, but I heard someone did it really good and owned a tournament with a Flash Gitz list. So...who knows?
Oh, Badrukk is a good upgrade, and if you have some space give them ammorunts. Though it's not *really* neccessary, nor is Badrukk, but he's fun.
Again just an opinion based off of personal gameplay.

I could theoretically see a list fielding the Flash Gitz under the following list:

HQ-
Big Mek /w KFF (perhaps PK)
Warboss/Ghaz

Elite-
5 Lootas
5 Lootas
Burna Boyz

Troop
Nobs- Wound Shenanigans- BW Transport and Deffrolla
Boyz in Trukk
Boyz in Trukk
10 Gretchin w/ 1 Runt herder

Heavy Slot
BW w/ Deffrolla
BW w/ Deffrolla
Flash Gitz perhaps Shootier Upgrade and the Kaptin.

Fast Attack
Suicide Rokkitkopta
Suicide Rokkitkopta
Suicide Rokkitkopta/Rokkit Buggies

This list could be theoretically viable at around 2000 points. By incorporating the Kaptin and a PK wielding Big Mek in one ride, you give them sufficient shooting power and sustainability in combat.

It already has the basic outline of a BW list already; it simply incorporates the Flash Gitz instead of another wagon of boyz.

The question becomes then, what is more efficient, the wagon of regular boyz, or the wagon of Flash Gitz under normal circumstances?

's really a pity they don't have the option of a Dedicated Transport. Even just a Trukk or a Looted Wagon (or BW without Deffrolla) would be enough to really make them more competitive.


I've actually been thinking about making a unit of them, trying them out (mostly because I think the modelling opportunity would be fun) I'd probably run them with Painboy and Blastas, though, because I likes me some low AP.

But these are interesting ideas. Especially that Battlewagon-centric list.

And would Ammorunts- no, they wouldn't, would they. Nevvamind.

Ammo runts would help with what little wound allocation abuse you could do.