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Hi all,

I played against ogres for the 1st time a couple of days ago. I couldn't help noticing my warmachines (<3 dwarfs) shred the ogres apart, but once in CC they lasted like... forever -,- I've won the combat, but I am curious how players with other races handle those big evil monsters? Because it seemed like I wouldn't have survived without my warmachines...

Greetings

Lore of death=Purple Sun. About half the armies have access to that lore.

And ogres arent evil. They like food, just like you and I.

Yup my ogres hate any spell that will hit with a template since I can't bounce that off of my runemaw. Also they do love food, it just so happens that they consider everyone they meet to be food.

The evil was just a random connotation I gave to the ogres for no reason I'll care for my wording next time

Ogres are one of the ene4mies i cannot rely on my saurus to hold out for long, i usually go for magic and posioned shooting against them.

Also things with killing blow like Tomb and Grave Guard do well.

Pretty sure they don't have heroic killing blow, which I think is required for Monstrous Infantry. I could be wrong.

Same way I kill most things:

Warp Lightning Cannon...

Avg Strength: 6
No Armor Saves
D6 Wounds
Small Template + Line

Zzzaaap!

Yeah my friend who plays ogres hates my skaven, so many multi wound weapons... WLC, and warpfire throwers roast ogres like they are nothing.

Squash wrote:Also things with killing blow like Tomb and Grave Guard do well.

No they don't, due to ogres being monstrous infantry.

Ogres should be breaking their units into smaller ones to specifically avoid the puddle spells, which are the greatest fear. So that mitigates the dmg of those spells and warp cannons and war machines in general.

Mass poison seems to be a really cost-effective way to put a dent in them.

An ogre fears a skink far more than it fears a knight.

streamdragon wrote:Same way I kill most things:

Warp Lightning Cannon...

Avg Strength: 6
No Armor Saves
D6 Wounds
Small Template + Line

Zzzaaap!

Agreed.

Dwellers, Pit, Purple Sun.

I did once manage to charge an Ogre Deathstar on each flank with 50 slaves. Then I worked on the "rest" of his army.

I don't think that'll ever realistically happen, but...it sure is funny.

Or my favorite way of dealing with all deathstars, a PoK stubborn Dreadlord.

HoverBoy wrote:An ogre fears a skink far more than it fears a knight.

Not one skink, but an equivalent points in skinks. That said, a mass of Sauren Warriors, one of the most cost-effective infantries in the game, an equivalent group of Ogres will turn them inside-out with little effort. It's just how WHFB breaks down sometimes in that whole rock-paper-scissors thing.

Playing Dark Elves, 2 Hydras. Can't beat monsters? Get more monsters then, =p

Not to de-rail, but is Ogre Deathstar better than MSU this edition? Or is he good with 2 ranks of 3?

Cryonicleech wrote:Playing Dark Elves, 2 Hydras. Can't beat monsters? Get more monsters then, =p

Not to de-rail, but is Ogre Deathstar better than MSU this edition? Or is he good with 2 ranks of 3?

Screw that, a horde of Witch Elves, chops up ogres really fast. Cast Mindrazor on them for the lulz.
Hydras get beat down too fast if the unit carries the flaming banner and contains a character with the ogre multi-wound weapon.

Basically I just charge my lance into them and because I am only 3 models wide I am not getting hit by as many attacks as other army blocks get hit by. Let my HKB lord kill as many as he can and win by combat res and hope to run him down. At least that's how I beat my last ogre opponent.

Cryonicleech wrote:Not to de-rail, but is Ogre Deathstar better than MSU this edition? Or is he good with 2 ranks of 3?

People like deathstars because you can throw that gut magic at them (WEEE, a zillion ogres with regen!). But then they complain about template spells. Choose your poison.

I can't see beating Ogres with knights. 3 wide or not, they can attack in supporting ranks with 3 full attacks, if it's a horde with 6 attacks. Even if they can only bring a frontage of 2 (not sure model bases), that's still 12 attacks + 3 Stomps vs. 6 attacks. Only thing that might save you is armor and cost-per-unit and psychology-type stuff. But they're putting out a lot more wounds. Vs. Ironguts I'd say no way in hell you're doing much.

Template weapons are terrifying to ogres. Do -not- try to take them on in CC. With gut magic backing them up (OGRES WITH REGEN ON A 3+ CAST), they will rip most things apart.

There is really only 1 way to reliably kill a proper ogre deathstar.

uber spells.


Warmachines actually have a pathetic chance against multiple multi-wound models.


Cannon ball(assume it actually bounces right): 5/6 chance to wound, 2/3 chance to kill and continue to next ogre.

a cannon ball only has a 55% chance to kill a single ogre bull. if the ogre has Regen up it's a paltry 28% chance to kill.


Bolt Throwers:

BS4 at long range: 1/2 chance to hit, 5/6 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to kill and go to next ogre. 14% chance to kill an ogre(with Regen: 6.9%)

BS4 at short range: 2/3 chance to hit, 5/6 chance to wound, 1/3 chance to kill and go to next ogre. 19% chance to kill an ogre(Regen: 9.3%)

Those are not the only warmachines in the game... I mean something like an Organ gun (again, im a dwarf player, so I refer to what I know) hits at str 5 and is allocated as shooting... it blasted quite a few ogres I must say... and a grudgethrower equipped with the right runes can splatter them to death... or at least in a few turns

Well...hm. Organ Gun needs 3's to wound, 2-10 shots. Maximum of 3 models/turn. And since it's range 24", it'll probably only get two shots in. So, on average, that's 1.3 dead ogres...

Normal stone throwers will hit a max. of, what, nine models? With eight needing 5+ and one doing two wounds, that's almost two ogres worth of casualties, not counting armour? Slightly better.

Also, Witch Elves would be a solid choice, I think. 50 attacks needing 3's, that's 25 hits needing 5's, so around 8 wounds and 8 auto wounds. They attack back with 54 needing 4's and 3's, so 18 wounds, and then around 4 more for stomps. What's the point cost on 30 Witches?
...and to be fair, a Hydra will do remarkably well against a unit that doesn't have that banner. And yes, Mindrazor is good. On anyone. Except Skavenslaves. Then it's a Hex.

@Cryonicleech: the Deathstar is considered better than MSU, because:

- everyone gets into combat or doesn't with the same roll (6 ogres can't stand on their own against a lot of bigger units, and they can't take a charge. Even being charged, 18 bulls cares less).

- No partial points! Which means each one of your ogres has to be killed, down to the last wound on the last guy, for your opponent to get a single point for any of their work.

This is really the kicker: you kill two of their units, they kill 80% of yours, game ends, you get points, they don't.

Grudge Throwers (by which I mean stone throwers with S4 or 5) do a better job, but not much better.

You could take these and hope to cripple them in the 1-2 turns it'll take for them to get into combat, so you can finish them off, or you could take an extra dozen warriors/machine. Not really sure which will fair better.

He didn't take any gorgers or yhetees for your warmachines?

I agree that the uber spells are scary but not so scary since I started using the greatskull and sometimes hellheart. You get your spell off on me once and kill a few ogres but then your wizard's likely dead or otherwise messed-up.

Be sure to counter or dispell his gut magic because the FAQ cut the 1 spell type per unit limit so he could possibly have several trollguts spells on his deathstar if you don't stay on top of it. I've charged into a block of infantry with S5 T5 regenerating, stubborn bulls before....not a pretty sight but neither was the 10 odd bulls that I lost to shooting getting across the field.

I'm used to getting chewed up by shooting while getting across the field but as my empire playing friend puts it, I only need to get my tyrant (and other characters) into close combat to win the game or make it a close contest.

As I mentioned, I was talking about a properly tuned DWARF Grudgethrower maybe I wasn't very clear... but you are right Seems like I rolled better than average ^^

cannons cannons mortars helstorms and helblasters then dwellers then purple sun

where'd that ogre unit go? ummmm....

as i said before, Cannons are fail at killing ogres.


Hellblasters are slightly better, but they have other problems.


Purple sun will do it though.

Rocket Batteries would be decent, if you can land the hit.

Mortars' large templates seem like a waste on ogres. Can they actually hit more models than small templates?

Really, a fire-thrower would be ideal.

And I don't think war machine hunting is really all that important for Ogre Deathstars. March 12", average charge of 13". A Gorger probably won't even make it on the table by the time they're in combat. Yheetis will connect with the war machines at the same time the 'Star hits...anything else. As long as they can charge-overrun-overrun, they're good.

I'm not sold on the Great Skull/Hellheart as a defense for the big spells, though. Pit will eat up 6 ogres on a direct hit (and a good chance of a character). A boosted Sun will get a few more. Most of the Miscasts won't kill the caster; just end the phase (...which is already over, since he probably threw all his dice at that spell). They're great choices against other types of magic, but the Big Spells are a different matter.

@Agnosto: as far as multiple Tooth Cracker/Trollguts/etc. goes, do you mean that they each have to be dispelled before the effect goes away, or that the effects stack?