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Ok so I've got a question and it's prob something simple I just wasn't getting right but wanna make sure.
When playing Deathwatch if you charge you only get one swing of your weapon right? Not one standard attack just one swing.
We've been playing that when you charge you get one swing and it's making the melee heavy PC's more or less refusing to charge. They run/jump pack to the mobs and at point blank range hit em with a wrist mounted shotgun and then get charged.
I've been thinking that even if it wasn't intended I'm gonna just change it to 1 standard attack so they will charge more.

So Dakka what are your thoughts/opinions? Are we reading the rules wrong, or should we just suck it up?

.. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "one swing" of your weapon here ?

You (generally) can't make more than one attack if you've moved/charged...but that's hardly awful really is it ? Especially for even mid level characters one would think.

Yeah... not 100% certain what you mean here Phat13uddha. Generally speaking the 'normal' attack types are:

Standard Attack - 1/2 Action (taken at WS+0)
Charge - Full Action (move charge distance in metres, taken at WS+10)
All-Out Attack - Full Action (must already be in melee, taken at WS+20)
Swift Attack - Full Action (Two standard attacks with the same weapon, taken at WS+0)
Lightning Attack - Full Action (Three standard attacks with the same weapon, taken at WS+0).

My bad, the issue is that the PCs in my game choose to just let the bad guys charge them so they can use lightning attack/swift attacks.
I know, what kind of space marines are these? Where's the balls first charge at impossible odds?
Let me give an example.
We're clearing building on a back water little planet. So they've cleared the entire town except the last big ass building and they they combat breach this door. So the chaplin,assault marine, and lib just stand in the door way and let the genestealers charge them. They've all got 2 reactions (except for the Lib but he's got a storm shield) and since the genestealers are charging they don't have to worry about actually getting hit. (1 attack vs parry and they all have WS around 65ish my chances of hurting them are slim to none)
What I want is a way for my genestealers to charge and still be a threat(a.k.a attack more than once), because as is my PC's are just steamrolling them and I'm worried the campaign is gonna be to easy for them.
At the rate it's going I'ma have to have them run into a couple "hybrid" genestealers that can charge and swift attack, so they are at least a little scared of the genestealers.

Genestealer Cultists with heavy weapons that need to be charged, then have the Genestealers pop out?

Phat13uddha wrote:My bad, the issue is that the PCs in my game choose to just let the bad guys charge them so they can use lightning attack/swift attacks.

Ah. Right. I see what you mean. I've got an Imperial Preacher (Cleric) in my DH group that does the same thing when he can. It's a fault of the core HTH mechanics (not FFG's fault - they didn't write Dark Heresy), but sadly i don't see it being changed anytime soon.

Charging has been used mainly to stop ranged threats from causing too much damage (oddly the last time it happened was a Genestealer Hybrid with an Autocannon, so Balance's suggestion is actually 100% correct in our case! ).

Melee is the ranged weapons counter. An assault marine with the one ability to use the jump pack move charge in solo mode is excellent for tying up enemy heavy weapons.

You are reading how it works correctly, and that's just how it is.

It's not the GeneStealer that you see charging you. It's the two GeneStealers who were flanking you, and chargeing.

though, i mean, Charging is effective versus Ranged. Versus a prepared melee fighter, a charge is cannon fodder stuff. now, the Stealer (or six) right behind the first one... well, they arent going to be Charging next turn.

there's definitely a trade off when charging using the DW rules. melee build characters like assault marines start with more than one attack as a full action but lose that extra attack when they charge. in general, as HBMC stated, it's in your best interests to charge shooty people since you'll stop them from shooting in most cases. if you're faced with assaulty xenos like the above mentioned genestealers, you trade off the ability to make multiple attacks for the benefit of striking first and hopefully killing them... if you don't then the enemy gets to make multiple attacks. one of the ways i've seen people get around this a bit is to run right up into point blank range instead of charging and just fire off a shot from a bolter/bolt pistol at +30 instead. that way you get an attack still and the enemy is denied their multiple attacks.

I foresaw this problem in my deathwatch game so I created an 'elite advance' that gives the character a talent that grants an additional swing on a charge for every 3 degrees of success, if their rank is 4 or higher it becomes 2 degrees. This has thus far been quite balanced.

There is a Talent called Preternatural Speed that fixes this. It's just not in Dark Heresy sadly.

Since, you are in DW, a horde of gene stealers is in the building. You can't parry or dodge a horde in melee. So either they need to get the feth out or charge first and try to knock the horde's magnitude down a notch. Ya they might want to stand back and let the charge come with shotguns, but only weapons with the Blast(X) quality or Explosive damage type do more than 1 damage to hordes. Plus there is the fact that 1 additional hit is applied for every 2 degrees of success on WS in melee, so they have a better chance of doing damage if they get into the fray first.

Celticwelsh wrote:Since, you are in DW, a horde of gene stealers is in the building. You can't parry or dodge a horde in melee. So either they need to get the feth out or charge first and try to knock the horde's magnitude down a notch. Ya they might want to stand back and let the charge come with shotguns, but only weapons with the Blast(X) quality or Explosive damage type do more than 1 damage to hordes. Plus there is the fact that 1 additional hit is applied for every 2 degrees of success on WS in melee, so they have a better chance of doing damage if they get into the fray first.

What would determine amount of hits and how much would those hits dent a hordes magnitude? Is there really that much difference from a full frontal assault to a drawn out ranged attack? Just trying to determine the key difference between these two if you can help out

A decent Assault Marine w/Power Weapon can do a number on Hordes in a single turn.

Say they have Lightning Attack (which ain't hard). They throw three attacks, and given that Hordes often have bonuses to hit, all three are probably going to hit. But let's be conservative and just say two of them it.

However, let's say they get an easy 4 DOS each. Now each hit is actually worth 3 hits, and then the power weapon gets extra hits. That's 7-ish Mag damage in a single round. As a lot of Hordes are in the 25-40 area, that's enough to bring that Mag Value down a notch, decreasing the damage/attacks/etc. that they can do to you next turn.