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 gorgon wrote:
I appreciate that people may want to see xenos titans, but I don't know why anyone would expect to see xenos in a product expressly set in the Horus Heresy. They've talked about the campaign books on the way to support other Legios and conflicts within the HH. They've hinted at new classes of Imperial titans also. I don't know why the setting would suddenly change and xenos titans to start rolling out in the next 6 to 12 months. *shrug*

Because people want Xenos Titans, though anyone expecting them in the next 6-12 months is clearly off their rocker. It's also not hard to have those campaign books expand far beyond just the Heresy.

 gorgon wrote:
I appreciate that people may want to see xenos titans, but I don't know why anyone would expect to see xenos in a product expressly set in the Horus Heresy.

Although I don't expect it any time soon, the original Adeptus Titanicus introduced xenos titans in the Horus Heresy setting. Partly it was just like "well, Orks didn't stop having Gargants just because Horus worships Chaos now..." but there were some small specific bits of fluff. Like, the Eldar fought in the Heresy specifically against the Warmaster. There was a quote, as I recall, of an Eldar addressing Imperial command, informing them that the Eldar have no care or concern for the fate if the Imperium, and find themselves aligned only because they oppose Chaos. The idea was that the rise of Horus represented a serious threat to the remaining Eldar, as a new front in their own struggle with chaos.

Honestly I suspect that the only reason to set this during the Heresy is so they they don’t need to make spiky titans just yet: They can have the warmaster’s forces strutting about in perfectly vanilla imperial titans.

That's entirely the reason, and it's a good business decision - the exact same thing was why the Horus Heresy was even invented back in the first days of the original AT. Being able to produce the same kits and equipment in different colour plastic for both sides of a conflict meant far less cost to start the project - particularly when plastic wargaming moulds were new-ish.

They also know how that Horus Heresy is a big fan favourite, so why not double down on this concept. If the game fails, they leave the game mid-production and let it sell at a slow pace for the next 10 years before canning it. If it's successful then they move on. Let's be honest, even if AT is not a massive success it'll sell more than enough to justify the handful of moulds they've done so far.

If the game is a success, some Xenos are pretty likely - but not before 2020. There are a lot of things that have to come first, including weapon packs for all available options. I would also bet on at least two expansion books being in production already, probably with new Titan and/or Knight variants (which will need models).

If all of this goes along with good sales for GW, I assume Xenos at some point in the future - but only Orks and Eldar. Both were common enemies (and sometimes allies) during the time AT is set in. Tyranids were simply not around yet, same for Tau or Necrons. If FW gets ambitious we might see the inclusion of some Xenos we have never heard about or seen in 40K yet, who knows.

All of that should not stop people to play around with "counts as". Orks are not that tough to build models for, and Eldar have things like Wraithguard and Wraithlords that can make excellent "Knights" and "Reavers". Tyranids have a great range of parts one can use for AT-sized creatures. Necrons can kitbash some pretty convincing constructs using the Canoptec Spider and Wraith kits (maybe even the Triarch Stalker).
Sure, all of this would be played using the existing rules for the time being, but using modelling to achieve visual variety still is a part of this hobby. I for one am looking forward to some great "Titan legions" using not a single official AT model.

 Darnok wrote:
If the game is a success, some Xenos are pretty likely - but not before 2020. There are a lot of things that have to come first, including weapon packs for all available options. I would also bet on at least two expansion books being in production already, probably with new Titan and/or Knight variants (which will need models).

If all of this goes along with good sales for GW, I assume Xenos at some point in the future - but only Orks and Eldar. Both were common enemies (and sometimes allies) during the time AT is set in. Tyranids were simply not around yet, same for Tau or Necrons. If FW gets ambitious we might see the inclusion of some Xenos we have never heard about or seen in 40K yet, who knows.

All of that should not stop people to play around with "counts as". Orks are not that tough to build models for, and Eldar have things like Wraithguard and Wraithlords that can make excellent "Knights" and "Reavers". Tyranids have a great range of parts one can use for AT-sized creatures. Necrons can kitbash some pretty convincing constructs using the Canoptec Spider and Wraith kits (maybe even the Triarch Stalker).
Sure, all of this would be played using the existing rules for the time being, but using modelling to achieve visual variety still is a part of this hobby. I for one am looking forward to some great "Titan legions" using not a single official AT model.

one thing to consider is well AT is set to start with in the heresy era, nothing stops them from advancing the timeline Titans haven't changed a lot in 10,000 years

Regarding the likelihood of third party bits for AT - one thing to bear in mind is how 3D design & printing is changing things. If you want to make bits for an existing system these days, you don't need to do any work yourself beyond sculpting them, you can just upload your designs to Pinshape for people to home-print and Shapeways for those without printers.

I'd wager there are at least one or two folk out there with the right intersection of skills and nostalgia to make things like oldschool carapace replacements quite likely, though the prices will likely make even regular FW customers balk a little.

Not really. In fact, 3d printing is fairly cheap when you need just a small run of a dozen bits, in comparison with traditional manufacturing. It is in huge volume, where printing fails to compete in price.

The main reason Xenos are unlikely until the setting advances past the Heresy is because at the point the Heresy breaks into open conflict the Xenos are either staying in the shadows (Eldar) , not come into contact (Necron, Tau, Tyranids) or been defeated within Imperial space (Orks). Best case is they go for Orks first to get pre heresy battles in and do the Rise of the Beast setting.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Ask again in 2-3 years,

[snip]

If that happens then Xenos have a good shot

I think that timescale is a bit pessimistic.

I'd guess that expansions and Chaos will take about a year to sort out, and will see the AT: Xenos boxed set in roughly a year - with associated fanfare.

Chaoticus maximus wrote:
Have gotten my copy of AT:GME yesterday. Fine so far but they should have hired some proof reader for the german version. It contains some typos in the rule section.

First one says, game size ist 4x4 inches (Zoll), not feet (Fuß).
Second one is a german/english mixture.

I also have the Book. On another Page, they say. You can play on a Standard Warhammer 40000 Table 1,80 x 1,20 if you like. But i'm not at home. Can't say on which page i read it.

Regarding Xenos, Andy Hoare has suggested that they might tackle those later on by advancing the timeline. The War of the Beast was mentioned, to do Orks then. He said it twice during a stream so I guess it's an idea they've bounced around the office before. Mind you he was very clear that this would not be for a while

 Yodhrin wrote:
Regarding the likelihood of third party bits for AT - one thing to bear in mind is how 3D design & printing is changing things. If you want to make bits for an existing system these days, you don't need to do any work yourself beyond sculpting them, you can just upload your designs to Pinshape for people to home-print and Shapeways for those without printers.

I'd wager there are at least one or two folk out there with the right intersection of skills and nostalgia to make things like oldschool carapace replacements quite likely, though the prices will likely make even regular FW customers balk a little.

I've already seen alternative weapons as 3d print designs advertised on a facebook group (which I suppose is fair enough until the alternative kit comes out) as well as full 3d printed warlord titans (which i personally am not ok with).
I have been thinking that as the grandmaster box has sold out and it seems like there are no immediate plans for a revivial, a second set in 6-8 months set against orks with a 'war of the beast' tagline could be a successful spin-off.

In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.

 schoon wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Ask again in 2-3 years,

[snip]

If that happens then Xenos have a good shot

I think that timescale is a bit pessimistic.

I'd guess that expansions and Chaos will take about a year to sort out, and will see the AT: Xenos boxed set in roughly a year - with associated fanfare.

Well, since this is a Speciallist Game, we may take a look at Necromunda or BB release models - it is core game, and supplements with additional rules and "factions" in them - like Death Season and Gang War books.
It was stated, even in the rulebook, that there are such supplements planned for Titanicus. So, say one-two books with Legio rules and additional weapons, after that expansion into Chaos and late Heresy with warped armor sprues, and probably a book about knight houses, with rules for FW and Dominus chassis. That makes it about four books, and under a dosen boxes with upgrades/models, and should take a year at least.

You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think Xenos are coming in months not years.

 Thargrim wrote:
In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.

Not really. You could still play great crusade games vs orks. Or even post horus heresy games vs orks. Who says just because supplement is themed on great beast means you can't use the ork rules pre-heresy? The gargants etc don't really change that much in that time...Or why post-heresy titans couldn't fight orks post-heresy? That's like saying 40k chaos marines can't be used vs orks!

About only really tricky to explain fluffwise would be chaosized titans fighting pre-heresy enemy but rulewise nothing really stops simply using rules of any great crusade aged things on post-heresy.

The thing with Titans is because of the way the Imperium works, Titans basically don't (or are not supposed to) change through the millenniums. So they can easily advance the story setting period without actually having to release any new Imperial titans or change anything. Same for chaos and even the same for the terrain sets. Horus Heresy to the 41st they can just release a single "here's the story now" pack and throw Xenos in.

Or they can add Xeno's one by one almost following the original release schedual - so Orks and Eldar first; followed by the incursion of the Tyranids, the Unveiling of the Necrons, Dark Eldar sweeping in to raid and then the Tau arising with new weapons of mass destruction and war on the fringes.




Reversing the Timeline to the Great Crusade would be possible, but it would be messy. Whilst it would free the designers into making new Xeno races with new Xeno titans and weapons it could also just introduce way too many wildcards and fanbases that would never get 40K models - there'd be less cross game compatibility. Remember part of what makes AT work when Xenos appear is Tyranid players who had no interest in AT now coming on board because AT has Tyranid titans. It makes far more sense to go forward rather than backward.


Heck if they want to add a new Xeno race they could add some from the Battlefleet Gothic - they could even - shock horror - reintroduce the revised Squat faction if they wanted to add new Xenos - plus adding new Xeno in the forwrad timeline means they can add a new race into 40K itself rather than make a Great Crusade game that would compete directly with 40K

tneva82 wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.

Not really. You could still play great crusade games vs orks. Or even post horus heresy games vs orks. Who says just because supplement is themed on great beast means you can't use the ork rules pre-heresy? The gargants etc don't really change that much in that time...Or why post-heresy titans couldn't fight orks post-heresy? That's like saying 40k chaos marines can't be used vs orks!

About only really tricky to explain fluffwise would be chaosized titans fighting pre-heresy enemy but rulewise nothing really stops simply using rules of any great crusade aged things on post-heresy.

There are 2 heads and several carapace components on the warlord sprue, so maybe it is possible to magnetize them for differentiating the eras (unless the colours are completely different, in particular for the other parts that have no alternative components). Maybe worth exploring.

Or, as suggested by Andy Hoare, you can get "several" after Chris Drew explained in the Modelling video that now you can get one while talking of dreaming to own a warlord.

True. Only great crusade themed would be orks but that's bit narrow and really not gamewise different to having grots on great beast era. Does give fluffiwise justification on having chaos titans vs orks though which is plus.

Yyyyyeeeeeeeeeesssssssss!!!!!

I have the confirmation my items are in stock and allocated to my order, gosh I am so relieved

Thought there might be some AT pre-orders from FW this week, specifically thinking about the terrain tiles, but looks like its just Anacharis Scoria. Hoping the terrain tiles don't take too long to come out, as firstly, I don't have any sort of playing board beyond a dining room table right now and secondly it would be nice to have them when I build the scenery kits so I can build them to match the spaces for them on the boards.

In better news, just got dispatch e-mails from Element for my orders, one for the GME and a second for the Civitas Imperialis Sector (and a few other none AT bits and bobs), that just leaves one outstanding order from Goblin (covering my bases as thought I'd missed out on the GME at Element).

Don't think I've been this excited by a new game release since Adeptus Titanicus came out (the first time!).

If you pre-order direct from GW for delivery to a store, do you get any follow-up confirmation email to say it's definitely arrived?

 xttz wrote:
If you pre-order direct from GW for delivery to a store, do you get any follow-up confirmation email to say it's definitely arrived?

You do yes.

 xttz wrote:
If you pre-order direct from GW for delivery to a store, do you get any follow-up confirmation email to say it's definitely arrived?

They should have emailed you tracking information, that you can look at to see if it has been delivered to the store. Mine is scheduled to be delivered at my local GW by the end of today. They also took down my phone number so i'll probably get a call too.

Is it just a UK GW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is it just a UK GW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?

It's more likely that's just when the stock comes in and the GW store staffer just wants to get rid of it so that he's actually got some space to move. It might also just be that GW isn't "toooo" strict on when pre-ordered products are given out to customers as long as direct sales don't happen until the launch day. Plus a lot of posted and shipped stuff gets sent out earlier so that its got a chance to arrive by the launch date - the stores likely just get it earlier because they are part of the established distrubtion chain (as opposed to private addresses)

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Is it just a UK GW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?

My local GW is very strict about street dates and won’t give anyone stuff they have in early.

 Thargrim wrote:
In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.

This is the problem that running a traitor force has in 30k. The heresy is a catalyst for some massive changes especially on the traitor side. Anyone who wants to run a Death guard force all the way from Isstvan to Terra has my sympathies

I do think the Legio's will stay mostly unwarped in the timeline until the siege of Terra. Possibly with a few mutated engines showing up towards the end of the Titan death on Beta Garmon. But after that its gonna be time to start adding spikes and tentacles.

My 40k Warhound is painted in the colours of the Death's Heads, to ally with my Emperor's Children, Cyclothraithe dark mechanicum and House Atrax Knights. That won't stop me using it in 40k (alongside said Knights) with my Elysians and Space Wolves; I'll just mumble a bit when someone asks what legion it's from.