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 Galef wrote:
Bike Autarchs in general have always been a favorite of mine, even when Farseers have been a better go-to choice for a minimum HQ.-

Out of interest, do you think Ynnari change this at all?

Just curious as to whether the artefacts and traits would actually make an Autarch preferable to a Farseer (assuming you're unable to just take both).

 vipoid wrote:
Are Warp Spiders any good?

 Asmodas wrote:

Yeah, I concur on the wraithhost specialist detachment. It is likely craftworlds only - I don’t see it being ruled playable by Ynnari.

Yeah, the specialist detachments need a stratagem to use and Ynnari are specifically excluded from using any non-Ynnari stratagems to affect Ynnari units.

 Asmodas wrote:

I’ve been thinking a lot about Wraithbois lately too. Specifically axe bois, as they are some of my favorites, but I don’t see how they would be superior in an Ynnari detachment. They really like to have spells like protect, quicken and the like cast on them, and I don’t see how they would be better with Ynnari rules.

To my mind, an important aspect of Ynnari is that they have no movement abilities. With that in mind, it seems that they really want stuff like Shining Spears, rather than Wraith units.

Yeah, the lack of movement abilities really kills it for me. I like the idea of Ynnari, and love the models (especially Yvraine), but I just feel like going to straight Craftworlds or Drukhari is the way to go now. I think Ynnari's new SfD is strictly worse than pretty much all the Craftworlds except Sam Hainn and possibly Iyanden. I am interested in possibly using Yvraine just as a generic psyker to add to my Drukhari list, though. She gives them a free deny, can ride in their transports, and can just be loaded up with offensive spells like Gaze of Ynnead that don't care if the rest of the army is Ynnari. She also gets you out of buying a 2nd Archon if you don't want one. For regular Craftworlds, I just don't really see the point.


It's also true that our Warlord Traits are really lackluster. I think only Tyranids has a more uninspiring collection of traits. The only two that are good (Natural Leader and Fate Reader) are locked to specific Craftworlds. So, have at it if you want to use your WL trait on a Reaper Autarch to make him a sniper - it's not like there are a lot of other great choices.

Here's an odd question for the group: if I am using Shadow Spectres and firing in their Coherent mode, and also have a power like Guide or Natural Leader active that is giving me full re-rolls, do I get to re-roll the bonus shots generated by the Coherent mode's special rule as well?

Just for clarity's sake, here is the text of the rule: "Each hit inflicted with this weapon allows an additional attack to be made with it. As long as each following attack hits, the controlling player may keep making attacks until a total of 3 hits have been inflicted with this weapon."

The Coherent mode is S6, AP -3, D1. The Exarch's Prism Blaster has the same rule and is S6, AP -2 (why...) and deals D3 damage. Seems like they could be pretty mean if you can reliably give them good re-rolls.

I think the Skyrunner with laser lance and Banshee mask is the way to go if you want an Sniper Autarch. It's 99pts for an Autarch on foot with the Reaper Launcher vs 127 for the tooled up skyrunner. The Skyrunner can do so much more for less than 30pts extra.

 Asmodas wrote:

Yeah, the lack of movement abilities really kills it for me. I like the idea of Ynnari, and love the models (especially Yvraine), but I just feel like going to straight Craftworlds or Drukhari is the way to go now. I think Ynnari's new SfD is strictly worse than pretty much all the Craftworlds except Sam Hainn and possibly Iyanden. I am interested in possibly using Yvraine just as a generic psyker to add to my Drukhari list, though. She gives them a free deny, can ride in their transports, and can just be loaded up with offensive spells like Gaze of Ynnead that don't care if the rest of the army is Ynnari. She also gets you out of buying a 2nd Archon if you don't want one. For regular Craftworlds, I just don't really see the point.

I'm inclined to agree.

From a flavour perspective, I much prefer their powers, traits and artefacts to those of regular Eldar. However, it seems like there are far too many hoops to jump through to even play them, and all you get for it is an unbelievably niche army trait.

I agree that Yvraine is probably a decent addition to DE (not like you're missing out on much with their HQs), but unlike you I really hate her model. Not sure why exactly, there's just something about it that really puts me off.

 vipoid wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Bike Autarchs in general have always been a favorite of mine, even when Farseers have been a better go-to choice for a minimum HQ.-

Out of interest, do you think Ynnari change this at all?

Just curious as to whether the artefacts and traits would actually make an Autarch preferable to a Farseer (assuming you're unable to just take both).

Part of the appeal for the Auratch is the reroll 1s aura, which I'd loose if he became Ynnari.
Or to be more accurate, he'd no longer be ALAITOC to give the aura to my CWE units that will STAY Alaitoc and never be Ynnari.

But also to clarify, I always take a Farseer too. But 1 Farseer is all you need. Skyrunner Autarchs are good enough to have multiples.
Reaper/Lance Skyrunners have about the same damage output of 2 Spears + 1 Dark Reaper. Imagine 2 Spears pulling a flying chariot with a Reaper on it. That's how an Autarch do.
Plus Character protection and buffing nearby units. If Spears and Reapers are good this edition, Autarch are good by default

If I had the points in every list, I'd 1 Farseer + 1 Warlock & 3 Autarch in every list. All Skyrunners. But sadly, points need to be shifted sometimes, so 1-2 Autarchs get kicked out of more competitive lists. Not because they aren't good, but because Farseer + Warlock powers are mandatory in competitive 8E

-

 Galef wrote:
Part of the appeal for the Auratch is the reroll 1s aura, which I'd loose if he became Ynnari.
Or to be more accurate, he'd no longer be ALAITOC to give the aura to my CWE units that will STAY Alaitoc and never be Ynnari.

Yeah, I can understand this. I really want to use Ynnari but every time I try to make a list I realise at the end that my HQs are basically the only things in my army that actually benefit from being Ynnari.

 Galef wrote:

But also to clarify, I always take a Farseer too. But 1 Farseer is all you need. Skyrunner Autarchs are good enough to have multiples.

Ah, that's a good point.

 Galef wrote:
Imagine 2 Spears pulling a flying chariot with a Reaper on it.

Now that you've said it I kinda want to model this.

 Galef wrote:

If I had the points in every list, I'd 1 Farseer + 1 Warlock & 3 Autarch in every list. All Skyrunners. But sadly, points need to be shifted sometimes, so 1-2 Autarchs get kicked out of more competitive lists. Not because they aren't good, but because Farseer + Warlock powers are mandatory in competitive 8E-

Fair enough. Thanks for replying.

Wraithseer with d-cannon and sniper trait makes for a great way to force enemy characters stay back and you can do decent anti tank work too.
Same with the autarch skyrunner, index him up with a fusion gun and Lance and you can output a lot of firepower, even the twin cats can sting.
As for chaff, I think two cheap squads of troops and a guardian bomb work great with a unit of 9 scat bikes to soften them up in turn one.
Ulthwe guardian bombs are amazing, for two CP and a psychic power you get 40 shots, hitting on twos and a 3+ invulnerable meaning they might actually survive the retaliation!

kingheff wrote:

Ulthwe guardian bombs are amazing, for two CP and a psychic power you get 40 shots, hitting on twos and a 3+ invulnerable meaning they might actually survive the retaliation!

I kind of prefer the Biel Tan guardian bomb because it is entirely self-sufficient, requiring nothing more than the 1 CP for webway delivery. I always feel like I don’t have any CPs to spare when I’m playing CWE - probably because I never want to take more of our troops than are absolutely required. But, I am kind of prejudiced because I’ve been playing my army as Biel Tan since like.... 1994?

As stated I like snipy autarch because of the duality it offers especialy if combined with a couple ranger squads. You cna always just shoot at big stuff to try and deal the 3dmg.

Hey, guys, I've got something of an unusual question - are there any Eldar units that could be refluffed as Daemons of some sort or other?

(Aside from the Avater, who is one already.)

You could probably refluff the Phoenix lords as daemons.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
You could probably refluff the Phoenix lords as daemons.

Interesting.

What about their aspects, would any of those work?

I wouldn't think so. The Phoenix Lords are immortal incarnations per the current fluff. The easy change is just to say they are the same daemon being summoned time and time again.

The aspect warriors are just normal eldar who follow a specific path of war. So, really there's nothing special about them.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hey, guys, I've got something of an unusual question - are there any Eldar units that could be refluffed as Daemons of some sort or other?

(Aside from the Avater, who is one already.)

Hey dude

You could potentially use the story of Maugan Ra and craftworld of Altsanar as the base for your fluff:

"Ten thousand years after the Eye of Terror
swallowed Maugan Ra’s homeworld, that
nightmarish realm vomited the legions of
Chaos into the material universe, leaving a
gaping lesion in space where realspace and
the warp could coexist.Whilst the rift was
still open and the armies of that hell-plane
were spewing forth, Maugan Ra took his
chance. He plunged into the unreality
of the warp and searched its malignant
reaches for what was left of his lost people.
Over the course of many adventures, as
told in the macabre Bás-Finscéali lays,
Maugan Ra eventually found the remains
of his craftworld.
TheAeldari of Altansar lived on still, after
a fashion. Maugan Ra guided what was left
of his craftworld out of the Eye of Terror
and led them against the forces of Chaos
to deny them their victory. However, at
the war councils that followed Altansar’s
return, there was no welcome from the
other craftworlds’ Autarchs for their longlost
kin. Though the Phoenix Lord’s people
certainly fought hard, they were secretive
and unsettling, and spoke only in whispers.
Of the Asuryani of Altansar, the same
question continues to be asked, though
never in Maugan Ra’s presence – how could
any living Aeldari remain untouched by
the predations of the Eye of Terror for so
many millennia?"

P.50 Eldar Codex 8th Edition.

In theory you could spin all sorts of demonic shenanigans into eldar fluff by using this plot device. Id recommend reading up on Altsanar and Maugan Ra in the codex fluff. Its pretty dope.

Can I ask exactly what it is that you are looking to do out of curiosity? Just fluff musings, Wriitng fan fiction? Painting& Modelling?

Anyho, hope this helps in some way.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I wouldn't think so. The Phoenix Lords are immortal incarnations per the current fluff. The easy change is just to say they are the same daemon being summoned time and time again.

The aspect warriors are just normal eldar who follow a specific path of war. So, really there's nothing special about them.

Hmm, that's a shame. I was hoping to find more than special characters but maybe it was a fool's errand to begin with. Thanks anyway.

 Argive wrote:


Hey dude

You could potentially use the story of Maugan Ra and craftworld of Altsanar as the base for your fluff:

"Ten thousand years after the Eye of Terror
swallowed Maugan Ra’s homeworld, that
nightmarish realm vomited the legions of
Chaos into the material universe, leaving a
gaping lesion in space where realspace and
the warp could coexist.Whilst the rift was
still open and the armies of that hell-plane
were spewing forth, Maugan Ra took his
chance. He plunged into the unreality
of the warp and searched its malignant
reaches for what was left of his lost people.
Over the course of many adventures, as
told in the macabre Bás-Finscéali lays,
Maugan Ra eventually found the remains
of his craftworld.
TheAeldari of Altansar lived on still, after
a fashion. Maugan Ra guided what was left
of his craftworld out of the Eye of Terror
and led them against the forces of Chaos
to deny them their victory. However, at
the war councils that followed Altansar’s
return, there was no welcome from the
other craftworlds’ Autarchs for their longlost
kin. Though the Phoenix Lord’s people
certainly fought hard, they were secretive
and unsettling, and spoke only in whispers.
Of the Asuryani of Altansar, the same
question continues to be asked, though
never in Maugan Ra’s presence – how could
any living Aeldari remain untouched by
the predations of the Eye of Terror for so
many millennia?"

P.50 Eldar Codex 8th Edition.

In theory you could spin all sorts of demonic shenanigans into eldar fluff by using this plot device. Id recommend reading up on Altsanar and Maugan Ra in the codex fluff. Its pretty dope.

That's pretty cool but regrettably not what I'm looking for. Nevertheless, I'm grateful you shared it, it was an interesting read if nothing else.

 Argive wrote:

Can I ask exactly what it is that you are looking to do out of curiosity? Just fluff musings, Wriitng fan fiction? Painting& Modelling?

Sure. What I was hoping to do is use rules for some Eldar models, but modelling them as daemons of some sort or other.

The reason is actually based on a Dark Eldar Kabal - specifically the Kabal of the Wraithkind. It's one that caught my interest a while back. There's not much information on it, but one thing that is mentioned is that the Archon was known for courting daemons. This intrigued me and I was wondering if I could build an army around it.

The thing is, I can't use actual Chaos Daemons (not in a Matched Play army, anyway), and Dark Eldar only have 2 daemon-ish units - Mandrakes and Khymerae. And given that neither of those have any wargear options or weapon choices, they're pretty one-note, to say the least.

Hence, I was wondering if any Craftworld Eldar units were at all similar to daemons (so that I could use the rules for those, but model them as daemons of some sort).

Tbh, it was probably a silly idea from the start but there you have it.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I wouldn't think so. The Phoenix Lords are immortal incarnations per the current fluff. The easy change is just to say they are the same daemon being summoned time and time again.

The aspect warriors are just normal eldar who follow a specific path of war. So, really there's nothing special about them.

Hmm, that's a shame. I was hoping to find more than special characters but maybe it was a fool's errand to begin with. Thanks anyway.

 Argive wrote:


Hey dude

You could potentially use the story of Maugan Ra and craftworld of Altsanar as the base for your fluff:

"Ten thousand years after the Eye of Terror
swallowed Maugan Ra’s homeworld, that
nightmarish realm vomited the legions of
Chaos into the material universe, leaving a
gaping lesion in space where realspace and
the warp could coexist.Whilst the rift was
still open and the armies of that hell-plane
were spewing forth, Maugan Ra took his
chance. He plunged into the unreality
of the warp and searched its malignant
reaches for what was left of his lost people.
Over the course of many adventures, as
told in the macabre Bás-Finscéali lays,
Maugan Ra eventually found the remains
of his craftworld.
TheAeldari of Altansar lived on still, after
a fashion. Maugan Ra guided what was left
of his craftworld out of the Eye of Terror
and led them against the forces of Chaos
to deny them their victory. However, at
the war councils that followed Altansar’s
return, there was no welcome from the
other craftworlds’ Autarchs for their longlost
kin. Though the Phoenix Lord’s people
certainly fought hard, they were secretive
and unsettling, and spoke only in whispers.
Of the Asuryani of Altansar, the same
question continues to be asked, though
never in Maugan Ra’s presence – how could
any living Aeldari remain untouched by
the predations of the Eye of Terror for so
many millennia?"

P.50 Eldar Codex 8th Edition.

In theory you could spin all sorts of demonic shenanigans into eldar fluff by using this plot device. Id recommend reading up on Altsanar and Maugan Ra in the codex fluff. Its pretty dope.

That's pretty cool but regrettably not what I'm looking for. Nevertheless, I'm grateful you shared it, it was an interesting read if nothing else.

 Argive wrote:

Can I ask exactly what it is that you are looking to do out of curiosity? Just fluff musings, Wriitng fan fiction? Painting& Modelling?

[/spoiler]

Sure. What I was hoping to do is use rules for some Eldar models, but modelling them as daemons of some sort or other.

The reason is actually based on a Dark Eldar Kabal - specifically the Kabal of the Wraithkind. It's one that caught my interest a while back. There's not much information on it, but one thing that is mentioned is that the Archon was known for courting daemons. This intrigued me and I was wondering if I could build an army around it.

The thing is, I can't use actual Chaos Daemons (not in a Matched Play army, anyway), and Dark Eldar only have 2 daemon-ish units - Mandrakes and Khymerae. And given that neither of those have any wargear options or weapon choices, they're pretty one-note, to say the least.

Hence, I was wondering if any Craftworld Eldar units were at all similar to daemons (so that I could use the rules for those, but model them as daemons of some sort).

Tbh, it was probably a silly idea from the start but there you have it.

Just do it! It sounds like an amazing idea. And you could use "counts as" in several cases and create a beautiful army (thinking of Blootletters as incubbi, the new harpies from warcry as hellions etc)

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I wouldn't think so. The Phoenix Lords are immortal incarnations per the current fluff. The easy change is just to say they are the same daemon being summoned time and time again.

The aspect warriors are just normal eldar who follow a specific path of war. So, really there's nothing special about them.

Phoenix Lords are most definitely not immortal.

Sterling191 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I wouldn't think so. The Phoenix Lords are immortal incarnations per the current fluff. The easy change is just to say they are the same daemon being summoned time and time again.

The aspect warriors are just normal eldar who follow a specific path of war. So, really there's nothing special about them.

Phoenix Lords are most definitely not immortal.

Their bodies may not be immortal, but so long as there is a compatible Aeldari body to occupy the suit, they are immortal in a sense. Unlike Exarchs that merge the soul of the current body with the souls of the previous wearers and incorporate their memories, etc, Phoenix Lords keep all the memories of the original Aeldari and do not merge them with the new body's memories.

Side question: Does anyone have any ideas if any of the PLs are still the original and how many "deaths" each one may have suffered. I can only think of Karandras dying in Path of the Warrior and the main character of that book becoming Karandras

-

I'm almost positive that I've read that all of the PLs have died at one point or another. It was probably in the fluff of one of the early codices.

You could maybe look at using some tyranid/demon head swaps for wraithguard? All sounds very heretical to me ...

Waaaghbert wrote:

Just do it! It sounds like an amazing idea. And you could use "counts as" in several cases and create a beautiful army (thinking of Blootletters as incubbi, the new harpies from warcry as hellions etc)

That's more or less what I'm thinking. However, I'd prefer it if the "daemons" were units that didn't need transports. Hellions work fine but Incubi are a bit dicey. Maybe Striking Scorpions?

I'm pretty sure Asurman is found dead and one of the eldar explorers gets sucked into the armour in the book of his name.

So veering back to tactics, I'm looking for a bit of input on a few lists I posted on the army lists thread for a 1000pt league at my local GW so I'm looking for some advice to build a good list (as in I want to win). Rules are single detachment, rulebook missions only, no soup and only one list for the entire league.

I've been tinkering this evening and trying to decide what would be a decent take all comers Craftworlds list but I'm requiring some input. At this points level, Alaitoc is obviously good but Biel-Tan seems to be a good Craftworld to take stock cheap bodies with shuriken weaponry and abuse the rerolls that the host trait gives.

Here is the first list I've come up with:

Biel-Tan Swordwind Battalion
HQ
Farseer (powers TBC)
Spiritseer (warlord, spirit stone of anath'lan, Biel-Tan natural leader, protect/jinx)

Troops
2x 5 Dire Avengers (Exarchs are stock)
10 Guardians w/ scatter laser platform

Dedicated Transport
3x Wave Serpents w/ underslung cannons

Heavy Support
3x War Walkers

The list is pretty all rounder but will suffer against a tank company for instance as I have no weapons above Str6. I can dish out some mortal wounds at least. The Guardians can do a webway bomb and the War Walkers can deepstrike. Let me know what you think of this one.

The second list uses Alaitoc as the army trait but could use Biel-Tan:

Alaitoc Battalion
HQ
Farseer (warlord, faolchu's wing, singing spear, powers TBC)
Spiritseer (protect/jinx)

Troops
2x 5 Dire Avengers (Exarchs are stock)
20 Guardians
5 Rangers

Heavy Support
2x Fire Prisms

Flyer
Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ 2 BL

This list has more anti-tank and the prisms can be good anti-horde/MEQ, the guardians can webway bomb, the remaining forces can benefit from the -1 to hit and overall get some good target saturation with 2 prisms threatening linked fire and a flyer helping to screen in some situations.

Cheers!

1st list: Why scat laser on the guardian platform? For biel-tan sepcificaly you'd want a shuricannon for re-roll ones. If youre taking it just as a wound tanker, I sort of get it, but might as well pay the points for cannon to get some use out of it.

Going biel-tan for the spirit stone is cool but I think taking a warlock and accepting you will drop couple CP for seer council to make sure clutch powers go off and going full alitoic is the better play.

2nd list: I'd drop the dire avengers and go for double rangers plus 20 guardian blob.

I think id change up the two prisms for night spinners and with some play about in points you could maybe fit 3 spinners in that list instead of 2 prisms. That's a lot of DMG2 dakka coming their way..

However its hard to say without the actual lists.. what gear are you running on the serpents? Does the 20 guardian blob have 2 platforms? At a 1000 pts the devil is in the details. Also no idea what models you have acess tto..

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm almost positive that I've read that all of the PLs have died at one point or another. It was probably in the fluff of one of the early codices.

If i'm not mistaken there is at least 2x PL that avoided death so far.

Maybe 3 Maugan, Fuegan and Baharroth are the original ones.

@Lord Perversor - I could very easily be wrong. i played eldar back in 2nd ed and am just getting back to them now.

@Tyranid Horde- my FLGS plays at the 1250 level and I'm trying out this list:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [61 PL, 8CP, 994pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ [7 PL, 142pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 77pts]: 2: An Eye on Distant Events, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Star Glaive [6pts]
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol

+ Troops [18 PL, 258pts] +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger [55pts]: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult [15pts]
. Dire Avenger Exarch [14pts]: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults [6pts]

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger [55pts]: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult [15pts]
. Dire Avenger Exarch [14pts]: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults [6pts]

Rangers [6 PL, 120pts]: 10x Ranger [120pts]

+ Elites [20 PL, 380pts] +

Wraithguard [20 PL, 380pts]: Wraithcannon [150pts], 10x Wraithguard [230pts]

+ Heavy Support [16 PL, 214pts] +

Wraithlord [8 PL, 107pts]: Flamer [6pts], Flamer [6pts], Ghostglaive [10pts]

Wraithlord [8 PL, 107pts]: Flamer [6pts], Flamer [6pts], Ghostglaive [10pts]

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [12 PL, 1CP, 255pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [1CP] +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [1CP]

+ HQ [12 PL, 255pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 135pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

Warlock [2 PL, 60pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear [5pts]

Warlock [2 PL, 60pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear [5pts]

++ Total: [73 PL, 9CP, 1,249pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I'm not sure what I would cut for 250 but the list seems pretty solid to me. The auturch goes with the wraithlords as a HtH unit. The spirit seer stays with the wraithguard.

BTW why do you have a spirit seer in your first list when you could save 10 points by using a regular warlock?

Have you considered dropping the flamers of the lords and changing up one of the dire avenger squads for storm guardians with some fusion?

Kind of- by that I mean that I really don't think that the fusion adds just of anything to a list full of S10 weapons and I like the flamers to deter chaff from trying to tie up my melee oriented wraithlords.

Might be worth for bit of extra threat saturation and duality to fall back on.

I don't think anything is going to be charging Ghostglaive WLs. At least can take some pot shots with the catapults at longer range.

I only say this because my WL is always running towards things and nothing realy wants a piece of that.

Cheers Argive, here are some responses to your comments.

 Argive wrote:
1st list: Why scat laser on the guardian platform? For biel-tan sepcificaly you'd want a shuricannon for re-roll ones. If youre taking it just as a wound tanker, I sort of get it, but might as well pay the points for cannon to get some use out of it.

The list rounds out at 998 or 999, something along those lines and I couldn't squeeze in a cannon if I wanted too and I had spare point left over so I figured I may as well jam in a weapons platform of some sort

Going biel-tan for the spirit stone is cool but I think taking a warlock and accepting you will drop couple CP for seer council to make sure clutch powers go off and going full alitoic is the better play.

I get why warlocks are popular, but for 20pts (why do people say 10? Is my battlescribe outdated?) more I get double the wounds, access to full smite and with the spirit stone and natural leader I get some nice rerolls for psychic tests and the pseudo guide.

2nd list: I'd drop the dire avengers and go for double rangers plus 20 guardian blob.

I think id change up the two prisms for night spinners and with some play about in points you could maybe fit 3 spinners in that list instead of 2 prisms. That's a lot of DMG2 dakka coming their way..

However its hard to say without the actual lists.. what gear are you running on the serpents? Does the 20 guardian blob have 2 platforms? At a 1000 pts the devil is in the details. Also no idea what models you have acess tto..

So just to be clear, the lists are as they are, most of these squads are barebones unless otherwise stated.

I prefer avengers personally as they're cheaper for jamming in more tanks which I figure people will have a tough time dealing with 1000 points. I only have one squad of rangers anyway so going for two squads unfortunately I can't do. The Guardians don't have any support platforms due to cost.

Remember Rule of Two is in effect below 1000pts, so three night spinners is a no go along with the fact I don't have night spinners. The fire prisms I chose because of linked fire and the ability to shimmy them about and still be able to hide.

In terms of what I have access to I have a fair amount of stuff in various states of assembly and the month can give me time to get these painted up. I guess the major stuff I have are Dark Reapers, Fire Dragons, Scorpions, Hawks, Warp Spiders, Banshees, (more) Avengers, Wraithguard/blades, windriders (Bike Autarch/seer too) and a wraithlord. I have some other things like a falcon or more war walkers but I don't know if I'd run them.