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Those poor sods from Mars/other forge worlds, very important in the fluff for basically running everything the imperium relies on but have poor stats to reflect it (although maybe they shouldnt be on the front lines but ehh oh well!) So I thought to myself: they studied on Mars/Forge Worlds, they probably have had a lot more exposure to imperium or even xenos tech so naturally they would know how to exploit these weaknesses! So I came up with 2 rules to aid them to give them a more anti tank support role, this may be cheesy though for certain units such as vendettas and long fangs

Master of Machines: A Techpriest/TechMarine (including Iron Priests) at the start of the shooting phrase may nominate one friendly unit within LOS and 6" of the Techpriest/TechMarine, which may be his own unit if he has joined one. The chosen unit must take a leadership check (representing a sort of "order to attack" although separate from IG orders, this may be given to vehicles and they count as having a ld of 10) and if passed, the entire unit gains the Tank Hunters USR until the beginning of your next turn. If failed the unit operates normally (representing the distrust of the Machine Cult, even techmarines are a bit secluded iirc to the rest of the chapter, and the unit ignores the "rambling" of the techpriest/techmarine)

Servo Arm Fighter: Because the training and experience a Techpriest/TechMarine has with construction and destruction of vehicles with their servo arms, all of his servo arm attacks against vehicles are treated as chainfist attacks

comments and critiques?

It would be better if the Servo Arm counted as a chainfist attack.

Actually the servo arm counting as a chainfist attack makes perfect sense to me-- some servo arms are indeed meant to cut through armor to get to damaged parts.

But I think the solution is to have a variety of servo arm upgrades-- there's quite a few of them in Dark Hhresy for example.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:It would be better if the Servo Arm counted as a chainfist attack.

Oh wow, that sounds even better

Melissia wrote:Actually the servo arm counting as a chainfist attack makes perfect sense to me-- some servo arms are indeed meant to cut through armor to get to damaged parts.

But I think the solution is to have a variety of servo arm upgrades-- there's quite a few of them in Dark Hhresy for example.

Hmm dont play DH/etc, what kind of upgrades are we talking about?

Actually they're called mechadendrites, and a Servo Arm is a specific type. That aside, there's several:

Ballistic (carries an extra weapon which can be fired along with any weapon held in the hands-- usually a pistol, but higher level techpriests can have boltgun or lasgun sized weapons)

Manipulator (designed to lift and manipulate industrial gear and vehicles, as well as having an immensely powerful grip)

Medicae (gives an improvement to the techpriest's medical skill and interrogation tests)

Optical (basically an eye on a highly mobile tube much like doc octopus' arm, has good night vision, telescopic sight, and has its own light if necessary)

Utility (basic all around mechadendrite, bonuses to tech use tests, has an injector for special oils that cure or prevent weapon jamming, is able to produce choking amounts of incense, and has a monomolecular edged cutting knife)

Then there's the servo-arm, which I believe is intended for vehicle repair mostly.

I am pretty sure the manipulator mechadendrite is the standard servo-arm.

ph34r wrote:I am pretty sure the manipulator mechadendrite is the standard servo-arm.

Nope, there's an actual servo arm in one of dark heresy's supplements.

Melissia wrote:Ballistic (carries an extra weapon which can be fired along with any weapon held in the hands-- usually a pistol, but higher level techpriests can have boltgun or lasgun sized weapons)

easy enough, extra weapons

Melissia wrote:Manipulator (designed to lift and manipulate industrial gear and vehicles, as well as having an immensely powerful grip)

hmm I have no idea how that plays out. my head says a shorter magna grapple (maybe not as strong) and also makes enemies in base contact I1?

Melissia wrote:Medicae (gives an improvement to the techpriest's medical skill and interrogation tests)

well it seems obvious to give FNP but I'm afraid to put that in, trespassing on BA Sanguinary Priest territory and dont want to make everyone FNP (like a powerblobs). Maybe poison attacks?

Melissia wrote:Optical (basically an eye on a highly mobile tube much like doc octopus' arm, has good night vision, telescopic sight, and has its own light if necessary)

Something like auspex/Gk servo skulls/searchlights?

Melissia wrote:Utility (basic all around mechadendrite, bonuses to tech use tests, has an injector for special oils that cure or prevent weapon jamming, is able to produce choking amounts of incense, and has a monomolecular edged cutting knife)

Another tough one. Make weapons in a unit twin linked/master crafted? higher initiative servo arm attacks?

Melissia wrote:Then there's the servo-arm, which I believe is intended for vehicle repair mostly.

Ehh its a given no one seriously takes techies to repair. Sounds a better idea to combine this with the mechadendrites

kenshin620 wrote:easy enough, extra weapons

More than that, it would have to be a weapon that can be fired with any other weapon that the techpriest is holding in their hands. It'd need a special rule to be accurate, as with this they could fire a bolt pistol along with a bolter, for example.

kenshin620 wrote:hmm I have no idea how that plays out. my head says a shorter magna grapple (maybe not as strong) and also makes enemies in base contact I1?

How about it reduces an enemy's number of attacks by a certain amount, to a minimum of one?

kenshin620 wrote:Maybe poison attacks?

Probably the best choice.

kenshin620 wrote:Something like auspex/Gk servo skulls/searchlights?

A combination of night vision, searchlights, and auspex probably.

kenshin620 wrote:Another tough one. Make weapons in a unit twin linked/master crafted? higher initiative servo arm attacks?

I would say the twin-linked part is more than enough, it'd be an expensive upgrade even then (mind you, all mechadendrites are pretty expensive in Dark Heresy, so YMMV).

Hmm for the Ballistic I was going to use the Servo Harness Gun rules but what you're saying it should be more of a co ax gun?

Anyways for the rest

Manipulator Arm: For each Manipulator Arm, all enemies in base contact with the model lose 1 A to a minimum of 1. If in base contact with a vehicle, the model may do 1 special attack at 1I and roll and D6 if a hit occurs. on a +4 a glancing hit is inflicted, -1 per additional Manipulator Arm beyond the first (weaker version of haywire). This can be used for a Tank Shock

Medicae Arm: Each Medicae Arm makes one attack at S4 I4 with Poison Attack +3

Optical Arm: No enemy models may DS or Infiltrate within 12" of the model, in addition the Techmarine/Techpriest and his unit gain Acute Sense USR. The model also counts as having a searchlight (for the purposes of shooting at the searchlight, the entire unit is targeted)

Utility: For each Utility Arm, you may twin link one weapon on the model or in his unit. In addition the model counts as having digital weapons

Yes, a ballistic mechadendrite is fired along with any other weapon that is fired. it can always be fired as long as you could normally fire the weapon in your hands. It's quite a powerful attachment in Dark Heresy, but also expensive and takes multiple upgrades to be able to handle a basic weapon (IE, rifle sized) as opposed to a pistol weapon.


Actually I think instead of digitial weapons, defensive grenades sounds right. It's supposed to be able to release a choking cloud of incense upon command after all, and that's roughly equivalent to the effect of some defensive grenades I think.

I like that servo-arm chainfist idea but that tank hunter order is maby too much.

Melissia wrote:Actually I think instead of digitial weapons, defensive grenades sounds right. It's supposed to be able to release a choking cloud of incense upon command after all, and that's roughly equivalent to the effect of some defensive grenades I think.

Hmm Def Nades sounds better I suppose.

Jone96 wrote:I like that servo-arm chainfist idea but that tank hunter order is maby too much.

Well I wanted to further give the techmarine/techpriest an army supporting role. The chainfist idea is pretty much adding in some extra meltabombs, doesnt justify taking an entire extra KP. If it does turn out to be OP though, I could have a negative side effect if the ld test is failed (-1 to shooting because of distraction?)

Thing is, while a chainfist would make Techmarines more useful, they still probably wouldn't see much use. There are just too many other good choices out there that they are competing with.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:Thing is, while a chainfist would make Techmarines more useful, they still probably wouldn't see much use. There are just too many other good choices out there that they are competing with.

Yea techmarines have it tough, one wound, almost as many points as an HQ, and competing everything from purifiers to thunder hammer terminators. (ironically most elites for marine codexes have great anti tank roles, the aim of this thread is to make an elite choice good at anti tank). Maybe give them the 0-2 counts as a slot just like techpriests? A reduction of points and/or adding an extra wound can also make them more attractive. Maybe the inclusion of a refractor field

And I wasn't even talking about techmarines, but rather techpriests

Which are taken even LESS than techmarines.

A Tech Priest/Techmarine, and any unit they are with, has the Tank Hunters rule. In addition, Servo Arms count as Chainfists.

Servo Harnesses, rather than the standard Flamer/Twin Linked Plasma Pistol/2 Servo Arms, may take up to four different mechadendrites.

Ballistic Mechadendrite: Flamer(5 pts) or Twin Linked Plasma Pistol(not usable in assault)(15 pts)

Medicae Mechadendrite: Provides the Feel No Pain Rule to any one Model per phase, so long as it's in the same unit as the techie(10 Points) or Functions as a 2+ Poisoned Weapon(15 pts)

Optical Mechadendrite: Provides Acute Senses and a Searchlight(10 Pts)

Servo Arm: Chainfist

Yes, you may take more than one of each servo arm, but you may only fire two ballistic mechadendrites per turn in addition to other weapons

In addition, Tech Priests and Techmarines have the following Special Rule;

Turning of the Machine Spirit: Enemy vehicles which have been Wrecked may be captured by units with this rule. When a unit with this rule attempts to capture an enemy vehicle, roll a die and add the following modifiers

-1: The Vehicle is not of Imperial Origin(ie, anything besides units from a Space Marine, Imperial Guard, or Witch Hunter army. Chaos vehicles that were once Imperial do not count.)
-1: The Vehicle is in Difficult or Dangerous terrain
+1: The user has a servo harness
+1: The vehicle is not within 24' of any enemy units

If the result is 5 or more, remove a model with Turning of The Machine Spirit from the game, you gain control of the enemy vehicle. This may not be attempted against Walkers. The vehicle still counts as destroyed for the purposes of kill points. If the vehicle is destroyed again, the removed model counts as destroyed, but the vehicle doesn't count for any further KPs. This ability may not be used on a certain vehicle more than once per game.

kenshin620 wrote:
Master of Machines: A Techpriest/TechMarine (including Iron Priests) at the start of the shooting phrase may nominate one friendly unit within LOS and 6" of the Techpriest/TechMarine, which may be his own unit if he has joined one. The chosen unit must take a leadership check (representing a sort of "order to attack" although separate from IG orders, this may be given to vehicles and they count as having a ld of 10) and if passed, the entire unit gains the Tank Hunters USR until the beginning of your next turn. If failed the unit operates normally (representing the distrust of the Machine Cult, even techmarines are a bit secluded iirc to the rest of the chapter, and the unit ignores the "rambling" of the techpriest/techmarine)

Servo Arm Fighter: Because the training and experience a Techpriest/TechMarine has with construction and destruction of vehicles with their servo arms, all of his servo arm attacks against vehicles are treated as chainfist attacks.

I like both rules, as they are quite simple, and still represent well the experience of a Techmarine. The Mechadendrites are nice as well, but tend to "overload" with special rules, so it would add too much complexity.

Just saying, Black Templars techmarines still have 2 wounds, and the only reason people sometimes use them is because they can get terminator honours and lightning claws, which when combined with a servo harness makes for a hilarious CC beatstick. Still not good though, as you've got a 2W IC without ++ save.

The various options being discussed here are all prrety interesting, but as noted a few times, the repair option leaves a bit to be desired, so I'd start there personally.

I'd say make any thing he does function as short range AOE's (like the Sanguinary Priest).

Say any vehicle within 6 inches receives an invulnerable save equal to the current repair roll (so repair servitors are still useful) versus all damage results.

Couple that with some sort of shooting bonus (I'd make it simple and automatic rather then requiring a test though) in the same area, say force the enemy to re-roll cover saves or tank hunters.

Jack

Better option for the Medicae Pack?

Allow it to 'counter' Poisoned Weapons and grant FNP to Servitors within the Techpriest/Enginseer's vicinity.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just saying, Black Templars techmarines still have 2 wounds, and the only reason people sometimes use them is because they can get terminator honours and lightning claws, which when combined with a servo harness makes for a hilarious CC beatstick. Still not good though, as you've got a 2W IC without ++ save.

Well as I mentioned, I could give techpriests/techmarines a refractor field or maybe a combat shield. Maybe even try to make priests T4 (similar to straken's stats)

Jackmojo wrote:
I'd say make any thing he does function as short range AOE's (like the Sanguinary Priest).

Say any vehicle within 6 inches receives an invulnerable save equal to the current repair roll (so repair servitors are still useful) versus all damage results.

Couple that with some sort of shooting bonus (I'd make it simple and automatic rather then requiring a test though) in the same area, say force the enemy to re-roll cover saves or tank hunters.

Never thought of that. It could be interesting to see a modified KFF as Servo harness techmarines will give a +4 save to their vehicles. Useful for dreads and mech armies

Kanluwen wrote:Better option for the Medicae Pack?

Allow it to 'counter' Poisoned Weapons and grant FNP to Servitors within the Techpriest/Enginseer's vicinity.

I dont really like the idea of counter poison since nothing else in the game counter poisons directly (not even necrons, nurgle, or nidz have that). I could have a very nerfed FNP I suppose to tip toe over my fear of replacing priests (only on a 6 and no AoE, only for the unit). Full blown FNP to servitors isnt a bad idea though since they could use some help too. Maybe bring back the combat/weapons servitor stats?

So its agreed Chain fist attacks from Tech Priests. Also I think they should have this improved profile

BS: 4 WS: 4 S: 4/8 T: 5 W: 2 I: 4 A: 1 LV: 8 SV: 2/5

So basically the strength depends on whether you use the servo arm in CC or not. Allowing to you choose what you want in combat. A Initiative 1 Chain Fist attacks or Normal Speed attacks.
The Toughness and Wounds and the Mechanized modifications they have made to their body. Much of a tech marines body is metal now and mechanized machine. Thus they have become much greater than a normal marine that they once were.

Also

Servo Armor - A Tech Marines Armor is much different than any other space marine armor. It is a specialized armor that not even the emperor himself could persuade the Tech marines to issue out to other marines. It is a Closely guarded secret in which is Ferociously protected by the Order. It is a highly Compact Runic Terminator armor that not only is much lighter but easier to move around in. Thus Tech marines only count as a single model in transports and they can still embark on the rhino/ Razorbacks and deal sweeping advances.


Yeah...Servo Armor would make Tech Priests, and Iron Priests and w/e your tech marine is called popular again!
Imagine a Iron Priest (Space Wolf Priest) On a Wolf that has a +2 5+ save that moves at 12' a turn. Can run and since it has fleet it can assault.. so that is a possiblility of a 24' range First Turn Chain Fist assault on a tank or another troop lol.

All Servitors should just have FNP automatically, but cost more points, and the Techies should have an option for a Portable Shield Generator of some sort, say, 4+ Invul save to anything within 6'. But if a Techmarine/Master of The Forge takes this, they can't get a Servo Harness or Conversion Beamer.

Speaking of which, maybe Priests and Techmarines should be able to get Conversion Beamers, instead of just MotFs.

Field Gen: That's obscenely OP. The unit would cost so much on his own he wouldn't be worth an Elites choice. Techmarines should stay the nice cheap thing they are, filling out a tank-heavy army. We want to make them better at what they do, not make them yet another boring old close combat guy.

hmm...true.

Field Gen wrote:

BS: 4 WS: 4 S: 4/8 T: 5 W: 2 I: 4 A: 1 LV: 8 SV: 2/5


Servo Armor - A Tech Marines Armor is much different than any other space marine armor. It is a specialized armor that not even the emperor himself could persuade the Tech marines to issue out to other marines. It is a Closely guarded secret in which is Ferociously protected by the Order. It is a highly Compact Runic Terminator armor that not only is much lighter but easier to move around in. Thus Tech marines only count as a single model in transports and they can still embark on the rhino/ Razorbacks and deal sweeping advances.

T5 is pushing it. Also Servo Armor is just Artificer Armor with a refractor field

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:All Servitors should just have FNP automatically, but cost more points, and the Techies should have an option for a Portable Shield Generator of some sort, say, 4+ Invul save to anything within 6'. But if a Techmarine/Master of The Forge takes this, they can't get a Servo Harness or Conversion Beamer.

Speaking of which, maybe Priests and Techmarines should be able to get Conversion Beamers, instead of just MotFs.
.

Conversion beamers sort of make sense I suppose. In fact the GK techmarine already have this option and a lot of neat gizmos that would probably pass off as Mechanicus Staff Only. Although this may make GK techs less unique (even though no one will ever EVER take them)

I think a +4 invl bubble will be way too costly or OP. Also as said thats stepping on the toes of priests (even moreso since its not FNP or a coversave like the KFF)

Sorry to bump my own thread, I want to field test the new profile I made and no one has commented in a while. Also made a rule to make them a bit better with Servitors. Does it look good? I think I may have overloaded them on rules, stupid arms.

Techmarine 50pts
WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A1 LD8 Sv2+

SR: All the default ones, Servo Arm Fighter, Master of Machines, Servitor Programmer (The model does not count as an IC for the purposes of CC targeting, also each turn servitors joined by the model may either be WS4 or BS4, until your next turn)
Wargear: All the default ones

Options: May replace Servo Arm with: Servo Harness 15 Pts
Conversion Beamer 25 Pts (May not be taken with Servo Harness)

May replace any Servo Arm, Flamer, or Twinlinked Plasma Pistol with: Medicae Arm Free (My Rules)
Manipulator Arm 5 Pts (My Rules)
Utility Arm 10 Pts (TL one weapon, defensive grenades)
Optical Arm 12 Pts (My Rules)
Ballistic Arm: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Astarts Shotgun Free
Flamer, Storm Bolter 5 Pts
TL Plasma Pistol, TL Infernus Pistol, Meltagun 10 Pts
Plasma Gun 15 Pts

May Replace Bolter with: Choices are same, add in Flamer 5 Pts
Melta Gun 10 Pts
Plasma Gun 15 Pts

May Take one of the following: Combat Shield 5 Pts
Refractor Field 10 Pts
Storm Shield 20 Pts

May take one of the following: Power Weapon 10 Pts
Thunder Hammer or Relic Blade 20 Pts

May Take Auxiliary Grenade Launcher 15 Pts

Bike option is same

------------------------------------------------------------------

Techpriest Enginseer 35 Pts
WS3 BS4 S3 T4 W1 I3 A1 LD8 SV 3+

SR: All the default ones, Independent Character, Servo Arm Fighter, Master of Machines, Servitor Programmer (The model does not count as an IC for the purposes of CC targeting, also each turn servitors joined by the model may either be WS4 or BS4, until your next turn)
Wargear: All the default ones

May replace any Servo Arm With: Medicae Arm Free (My Rules)
Manipulator Arm Free (My Rules)
Utility Arm 10 Pts (TL one weapon, defensive grenades)
Optical Arm 12 Pts (My Rules)
Ballistic Arm: Bolt Pistol, Boltgun Free
Flamer, Storm Bolter, Grenade Launcher 5 Pts
TL Plasma Pistol, Meltagun 10 Pts
Plasma Gun 15 Pts

Melta Bombs same

May Take: Refractor Field 10 Pts

Servitors work exactly like SM servitors (how to take them, swap techmarine for techpriest)