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Hi y'all

Running chaos with plagues and zerks, have a deamon prince but wondering should i get another and run 2 or would one of the characters be better? Thinking Typhus, Abbadon or Kharn (sorry if spelling is out, don't have codex infront of me)?

Prob end up buying them all and using trial and error but where to start?

Demon Prince's with Wings are a really, really difficult bundle to beat for their cost. They provide an element of mobility to an army that is somewhat lacking in that department, can hide in terrain quite easily, and are pains in the butt to kill due to T5, a 3+/5++ save, and eternal warrior.

If you grab a Lash Prince, you have a high Init beatstick that can dramatically change the board. MoN and MoT princes also have their uses, albeit I find them difficult to justify pricewise compared to a Lash Prince.

Kharne does always linger in the back of my mind though, demanding a spot....

You can never go wrong with Nurgle Princes, though if you're looking for a named character Kharn is a good choice.

If you decide you want Lash, you're better off with a Sorcerer in a Rhino than a Prince IMO.

I find a Khorne Lord with a Daemon weapons works just as well as Kharn.

Warptime is a must for the Princes,my Prince really suffers without it.

Its hard to go wrong with 2 daemon princes with wings. I would start there.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I find a Khorne Lord with a Daemon weapons works just as well as Kharn.

Warptime is a must for the Princes,my Prince really suffers without it.

shudder... any 1 is an attack against your character with no attacks for you. Now mark of khorne and roll 2 d6 so 1 in 6 chance of taking 1 hit with no attacks 1 in 36 chance of taking 2 hits with no attacks. Plus add in the cost of the daemon blade...
I could see a 2 x LC MoK leader but too iffy for me with a khorne daemon blade. Otherwise kharne - 2+ hits and S 5 or 6
(can't remember his base S.) and 7 attacks means probably 5 to 6 hits that wound on a 2 or 3 depending on the S.
Kharne is worth it.

Abaddon - awesome - awesome abilities but at an awesome cost. Typhus with eternal warrior yes without no.

MoK lord, jump pack. Dual Lightning claws.

For its price, it'll wreck face!

failing that everyone here has pretty much hit the nail head on.

DP is pretty rough, lashing sorc in a rhino, Khárn who IMO beats Abbadon since you don't have to devote a Land Raider to make sure Khárn gets in there to kick some serious ass

I am a fan of a winged warpime prince of Tzeentch.

the 4++ save is really helpful.

Sticking to the fluffy Khorne aligned with nurgle theme... kharn over typhus.

Abby is quite honestly... the scariest thing in close combat I have ever seen, point for point. You really have to shoot him down... but it is kind of hard when he is in a landraider with a terminator/berserker retinue.
This however... is the definition of a deathstar and I don't think is the best idea for an all around list.

khorne lords with demon weapons aren't actually that great.

Firstly, you have a .333 of doing nothing, as a roll of one on EITHER die shuts him down.

Then, for the rest of the time, your average number of attacks is +7 for a total of 12 attacks. Against marines, this kills 4. A claw lord on the charge, with his 6 attacks kills 3.

This means that, compared to a MoK claw lord, you're taking a weapon that 1/3 of the time does nothing, 1/3 of the time does slightly more damage OR LESS, and 1/3 of the time does more damage.

Those look like pretty bad odds to me. I think I'd rather just go for Kharn or a claw lord.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I find a Khorne Lord with a Daemon weapons works just as well as Kharn.

Warptime is a must for the Princes,my Prince really suffers without it.

MOK daemon weapons dont make any attacks 30% of the time! the other 70% they wreck things, but almost 1/3 combat phases they sit there like chumps.

It bugs me quite a lot that Khorne Lords don't have Furious charge, nor Nurgle Lords FNP.

So yeah, Daemon Princes are the best bang for your buck, usually. Besides them, regular sorcerers to use lash from Rhinos can also be good.

And Kharn, if you're facing lots of I5, high-armor toughies.

As others have said, for sheer competitiveness, nothing in the Chaos HQ can really top the Daemon Prince, particularly for their price. Two Daemon Princes (winged of course) are very powerful, not too many points and adds a level of armour saturation that other HQ's dont. I can't say this enough, for sheer competitiveness, the Daemon Prince is almost the only way to go.


However, Lords can work well (particularly MoK and Jump Pack and Nurgle DW's are underrated), don't provide such a big target and can quite simply be more individual. However, for competitiveness, points costs, force multiplication, whatever, it can't really beat a DP IMHO.

Kharn is pretty much the best named character in the 'dex (points value wise anyway) and can create a mess. He's still arguably worse than a Daemon Prince, but he's still powerful and is better against large numbers than a prince.

I've had the "joy" of regularly fighting a CSM player who always incorporates 2 nurgle wing-princes or 1 and Khârn in every list he builds for the last year and let me tell you, those things are quite possibly the best bullet magnets I've ever seen! You absolutely HAVE to eliminate them before they reach your lines, as it'll be too late when they do. When he plays Khârn, he'll usually drive a wall of rhinoes at me, alternating one in front of the others and alternating smoke so that they all have cover saves most of the time. If I manage to pop Khârn's ride, he just jumps into the next one and keeps coming. All the while, a daemon prince is jumping at me from my other flank. My saving grace is that I play Templars, so any attempt to shut my fire bases down by a daemon prince will be met with preferred enemy power fists...

I have had the "joy" (yes I just copied you) of a CSM player who just loves dual winged lash princes... which are really annoying to try and deal with. Controlling everything on the table is quite annoying. Though competitively... it is nothing more than annoying.

Right, I don't swoon very quickly when I look at demon princes. They're very big targets, and it's easy for people to bring plasma and lascannons and missile launchers at the sight.

And that's just getting horribly exploded before they arrive. They still have to kill stuff once they get there. I mean, I've taken down more than one with just power blobs before...

I've run a few Chaos HQs at one time or another...I had a list with Lash Prince + Kharn, dual Lash Princes, and dual Lash Sorcerors.

Beatstick characters don't really do it for me. I've only got two HQ slots. I can cram beatsticks into my Elites slot, but I can't fill my Elites slot with synergistic units. On the other hand...HQ slots have plenty of synergistic choices. Unfortunately for Chaos, there's only really one that is competitive IMO.

Competitively, for the price, nothing beats the Lash Sorcerors. Hide them in Rhinos with a unit of Plague Marines. Lash the opponents' troops off of objectives. Lash them into a ball and plasma cannon / Defiler battle cannon / Vindicator them to death. Lash them closer to a unit of Berzerkers and charge them. It's the most versatile psychic power out there.

Plus Sorcerors aren't half bad beatsticks by themselves. If you hide them in Plague Marines, they're hard to pick off outside of H2H and if they find themselves on the receiving end of an assault, they can benefit from the "no charging bonus attack" due to Defensive Grenades. Meanwhile, your I6 (5+1 for MoS) sorceror swings his Force Weapon 4 times and hopefully picks off an enemy IC before he even has a chance to swing. For added insurance, run him with Warp Time. Without getting into costs specifically, a Lash Sorceror with MoS, LoS and a Familiar for Warp Time costs the same as a Lash Prince and is muuuuch better in nearly every way.

I run a normal daemon blade Lord with wings in a rhino and a slaaneshi lord with bliss giver in a rhino. The unmarked lord is for unit kiling the bliss giver is for ID goodness

sexiest_hero wrote:the bliss giver is for ID goodness

Why don't you just take a sorcerer, then? You get the ID and you don't get that nagging 16% chance of doing NOTHING.

Plus, once you're at that point, you can roll in lash, and the end result is a CHEAPER HQ choice that does MORE.

That really is the problem with demon weapons. Anything you want them to do, you could just take a sorcerer, which is an overall better unit.

To be fair, sorcerers have no way to get Poisoned attacks (Plaguebringer) or 10+ attacks (Bloodfeeder). But the sorcerer is, 9 times out of 10, better.

Exergy wrote:

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:I find a Khorne Lord with a Daemon weapons works just as well as Kharn.

Warptime is a must for the Princes,my Prince really suffers without it.

MOK daemon weapons dont make any attacks 30% of the time! the other 70% they wreck things, but almost 1/3 combat phases they sit there like chumps.

To be fair,against my enemy marines,I usually only get one round before I get a Calgar to the face.
So I go for the risk,and pray to the dark gods as I roll the dice.

+1 on using Sorcerers if you want Lash, instead of a DP. In a rhino with Plague Marines = best bang for the Lash buck.

Two sourcerers actually isn't sommit i'd though about, but your arguments are compelling me to give it a go.

Had my first game with the army the other day and my DP died round 2, not so good yet i field 2 plague units anyway so a lash sourc with each sounds like a real good plan.