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Ok so IG get to use Gks as an ally and they could use IG as an ally. Now why do they get chimeras when IG can't use any of there stuff? It seems like IG was told to go F themselves as there chimera production facility was spiting them out with GK colors!

well they also get Land Raiders and Rhinos, too. It's called standardization. The Imperium only likes a few types of vehicles carting around its most trusted troops. And when it comes to supplies, the IG takes a back seat.

That's so sad though I think IG should get labdraiders 2 or atleast the stormraven even though the vendetta is better IMHO

Renegade milita can have CSM rhino transports and dreadclaw assault pods.

So maybe just allie with CSM and you can use thier gear

Heres the rules here.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA5_RH.pdf

Neroku wrote:Ok so IG get to use Gks as an ally and they could use IG as an ally. Now why do they get chimeras when IG can't use any of there stuff? It seems like IG was told to go F themselves as there chimera production facility was spiting them out with GK colors!

Inquisitors can use chimeras because they are humans. And they are inquisitors.

ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why settle for a piddly land raider when the Commissar can requisition himself a baneblade?

IG get super-heavies, and more mobile Artillery than anyone else. Also main Battle Tanks.

A razorback is inferior to the Chimera, as is the Rhino.

The land Raider(god-hammer, the Std pattern) is inferior as an IFV to the Chimera(superior as an assault-transport; but IG don't wanna assault), and inferior as a MBT to a leman Russ.

The Redeemer is inferior to a Chimera as both transport and Flame-tank, and far inferior as a Flame-tank to the hellhound.

The Crusader is the only one that is Superior in nearly all respects to any IG tank.

The Storm Raven is about on par with the Valkyrie/Vedetta(but it costs significantly more, points-wise, in game).

All the IG Artillery is superior to the Whirlwind.

Ok well all i have to say to that is:

Open Mouth Insert Foot...


lol thanks for the eye opener lol

The Chimera is a widely available enough platform to be available to Inquisitors relatively easily, and its not like GK units can get them, only the Inquisitorial units can take them.

Even if IG had access to Land Raiders and Stormravens, they really wouldn't be all that useful. The primary point of these vehicles is to deliver heavy assault units, which IG don't have, and are overpriced as purely shooting platforms, which IG would use them as. IG is already the superior tank army, adding Land Raiders and Stormravens wouldn't really mean too much.

The Storm Raven-Crusader could make for a Very good gun platform, that incidentally transports heavy assault units.

230/235 points is not really too much for 4 t-l Asscannon shots + 6-12 t-l Bolter shots @ Infantry and 1 T-L MM shot at a tank, all at BS4, after moving 12" with AV12 all around, ignoring Melta.

The Transport capacity and Assault ramps is just gravy as that point; and that is more anti-whatever dakka than any IG Tank could put out(Closest is the Valk w/rocket pods, but it cannot do Anti-tank; A Valk and a Vand is close to the points and kills Both troops and Tanks just as well, tanks almost better).

Kommissar Kel wrote:The Storm Raven-Crusader could make for a Very good gun platform, that incidentally transports heavy assault units.

230/235 points is not really too much for 4 t-l Asscannon shots + 6-12 t-l Bolter shots @ Infantry and 1 T-L MM shot at a tank, all at BS4, after moving 12" with AV12 all around, ignoring Melta.

The Transport capacity and Assault ramps is just gravy as that point; and that is more anti-whatever dakka than any IG Tank could put out(Closest is the Valk w/rocket pods, but it cannot do Anti-tank; A Valk and a Vand is close to the points and kills Both troops and Tanks just as well, tanks almost better).

It's too expensive. It's AV12, sure immunity to melta double-pen is cool but an S8 AP1 meltagun still isn't exactly bad against naked AV12, and it's not like it's any harder to kill than a 55pt chimera or a 130pt Vendetta (which is likely going to win a shooting war at at long ranges) with Autocannons, Lascannons, Lances, Krak Missiles, Assault Cannons, Battlecannons, Railguns, Missile Pods, etc.

An AV12 235pt gun platform is overkill. It's almost never going to recoup that investment purely as a shooting platform without making use of the transport element. Sure, it's got more raw dakka than a Valk with rocket pods, but it also costs *twice* as much, while not being *twice* as hard to kill (and notably missing Scout, which is a huge part of what makes Valks/Vends so powerful).

IG work because their AV12 gun platforms are 50something to ~160pts at the most. They have quantity. It's relatively easy to silence a trio of kitted Stormravens, or at least make it so that all they get to shoot is their PotMS shot. It's harder to silence a couple Vendettas, half a dozen Chimeras, and a couple Hydras for roughly the same cost (and throwing out *way* more firepower)

The Stormraven is good because it's a decent gun platform *and* an assault delivery system, without the second part, there's no way it'd be worth what it is.

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

Well it's cuz Commissar means Comander right?

But anyway the storm raven could be taken for ogryns and sentinels or may e while taking the storm ravens we get the dreadnoughts attached to them to idk would be awsum though

Neroku wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

Well it's cuz Commissar means Comander right?

But anyway the storm raven could be taken for ogryns and sentinels or may e while taking the storm ravens we get the dreadnoughts attached to them to idk would be awsum though

Fluffwise it makes no sense...
Gameplaywise it would make IG ridiculous...
Most of their stuff it better than marine vehicles but i wouldn't like to see the results anyway.

Neroku wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

Well it's cuz Commissar means Comander right?

Wrong... Why do you think that? Commissar means commissar. Do you not know what a commissar is?

Neroku wrote:But anyway the storm raven could be taken for ogryns and sentinels or may e while taking the storm ravens we get the dreadnoughts attached to them to idk would be awsum though

You know, IG has the valkyrie, right? And the transporter? And the vendetta? And the vulture?
Have you ever read the IG codex? IG had the flyers first.


Also "idk" and "awsum" aren't words

Economics I would think. The IG is huge. They would be a logistical nightmare to keep supplied even with just flak armor and lasguns. The Grey Knights are a tiny tiny organization of the best best of the best and as such, a small force of them have equipment so rare and difficult to produce that may cost the Imperium as much as equipping an entire Battalion of IG. "Sorry, cannon-fodder grunts, but you are not valuable enough for us to provide you with our super weapons, you are expendable so your equipment must be expendable too." would seem like the answer.

My question is why Terminators can fit in a Chimera, but not into a Rhino. If the case is that the Rhino is smaller, then why does it carry 10 power armored Marines, who are bigger than Guardsmen?

In terms of fluff...

It is because the IG are unworthy, as is everyone else. When GK get their weapons, they are delivered by servitors who are mind-wiped to protect the secrets of both sides. GK have technology unavailable to any other chapter.

What's more - to be IG and ally with GK is death. Grey Knights, or "Chapter 666" know that knowledge is power. Denial of knowledge is protection of their power, so rather than knowledge of their existence become widely known, they wipe knowledge of their existence away. When IG fight with GK, they are summarily executed afterwards. Other Astartes are generally considered too valuable to waste, and are instead given the option of a mind-wipe instead of death.

Why would IG get access to GK assets when to even know of the existence of Grey Knights is an automatic death sentence?

I read something like that. I don't remember what it was, but something like Grey Knights are for the most part deployed against the most Daemonic and insidious forces of the warp. Any world tainted enough to necessitate the Grey Knights is a lost cause. It doesn't get liberated, it gets cleansed, including any possible taint of chaos that may have worked its way into its defenders. They don't take chances, the Imperium would rather blast a planet to dust than have Chaos usurp it. I'm sure that will change, this was an old book I saw in a comic store, and I think there will be a lot more GK versus non-Daemonic forces on tabletops, but that was what I saw in a very ancient book before I ever started playing this game.

That might upset some of the fresh faced idealists who thought they were the superheroic goodguys of the galaxy, but I think it's nice to know that there still are no good guys, only more bloodthirsty genocidal maniacs with shiney heroic looking armor instead of spikey bits.

I think people forget that while the Chimera is used by the IG, it's not some sort of IG exclusive vehicle. Hell, even the Arbites own Chimeras in addition to their Repressors and Rhinos.

The Inquisition has their own pool of Chimeras, they don't always requisition from IG, only if they need to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neroku wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

Well it's cuz Commissar means Comander right?

No, a Commissar is a Political Officer.

The only use Id' see for land raiders for IG is delivering ogryns, which would be nice as Ogryns are so rarely used, but it's still nothing that IG can't do better than as far as firepower goes.

Land Raiders are extremely rare like sacred relics to SM chapters. A chapter's Techmarines would see to it that clumsy, brutish Ogryns would probably not even be allowed to touch them, let alone ride in them - no matter how much it could make sense in game terms - It says in their entry that a SM chapter will go to great lengths and fight like men posessed just to retrieve a lost sponson. Sorry Ogryns, you still have to ride the short bus.

I've seen ogryns ride in them in an apoc game. So obviously not ^.^

Melissia wrote:I've seen ogryns ride in them in an apoc game. So obviously not ^.^

With one guardsmen enticing them to enter with a barrel of rations

Any sense of story goes out the window in apoc games so they don't count. The only one I ever saw had Commissar Yarrick teamed up with Ghazkull for some reason. I would like to believe that the availability of equipment to different factions at least somewhat matches the intended story and descriptive entries of the different factions and their gear. We don't see any Space Marines carrying captured splinter rifles either because they wouldn't want the filthy xenos taint of them on their pure Emperor-serving consciences. It could be fun to open all the wargear to all the armies and lead to some really bizarre modelling projects, but I think they are restricted for their storylines too, not just for an attempt at game balance.

did I miss something did they keep the ally rules in the new GK codex, cause I haven't seen that.

gendoikari87 wrote:did I miss something did they keep the ally rules in the new GK codex, cause I haven't seen that.

There are no ally rules with GK and IG.

Ok so IG get to use Gks as an ally and they could use IG as an ally.

This is incorrect.

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:

ph34r wrote:

Neroku wrote:ya but i have commissars and they should be able to comender a landraider or something

Why do you think commissars can commandeer anything? They can't. They aren't Inquisitors. They don't have some magic "give me stuff now" power.

Well it's cuz Commissar means Comander right?

Wrong... Why do you think that? Commissar means commissar. Do you not know what a commissar is?

Neroku wrote:But anyway the storm raven could be taken for ogryns and sentinels or may e while taking the storm ravens we get the dreadnoughts attached to them to idk would be awsum though

You know, IG has the valkyrie, right? And the transporter? And the vendetta? And the vulture?
Have you ever read the IG codex? IG had the flyers first.


Also "idk" and "awsum" aren't words

Idk what a vulture is I didn't know that's was in my codex but sure. On top of that I was just saying how awsum it would be if they could I don't really care that they can't I was just saying that that it would be cool. Anyway this was fun thanks for the lol. Awsum!

mister robouteo wrote:Any sense of story goes out the window in apoc games so they don't count.

The hell it does. That's the fault of the group, NOT Apocalypse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neroku wrote:
Idk what a vulture is I didn't know that's was in my codex but sure. On top of that I was just saying how awsum it would be if they could I don't really care that they can't I was just saying that that it would be cool. Anyway this was fun thanks for the lol. Awsum!

We appreciate correct word and grammar usage here. Lolspeak/TXTspeak isn't generally an acceptable form of communication on Dakka, especially when English is one's first language(at least I assume it is, since you appear to be American).

Grow up and learn to type properly, please.

Platuan4th wrote:
Idk what a vulture is I didn't know that's was in my codex but sure. On top of that I was just saying how awsum it would be if they could I don't really care that they can't I was just saying that that it would be cool. Anyway this was fun thanks for the lol. Awsum!

We appreciate correct word usage here. Lolspeak/TXTspeak isn't generally an acceptable form of communication on Dakka, especially when English is one's first language(at least I assume it is, since you appear to be American).

Grow up and learn to type properly, please.

YES SIR! Also thx 4 that I needed to straighten my txt talk out! Also thx 4 being off topic!

Perhaps, I don't have an Apocalypse book, I just know I saw a table full of miniatures and one one side was Ghaz and Yarrick while on the other was a lot of Slaanesh Daemons and Khorne Marines and Eldar (also pretty wierd I thought). None of the teams made any sense at all, but I don't know the rules about it so I'll plead ignorance, maybe they were'nt doing it right.