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The only changes I would make:

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Dedicated Transport - Crowe can select a Razorback dedicated transport (page 92).

Blade of Antwyr - The Blade of Antwyr is a Daemon Blade. However, due to the strength of its possession, Crowe must take a Ld at the start of every game turn, in order to see whether or not he can control it. If he fails, he gains the Rage USR, goes to S6, I4. Furthermore, all models count as enemy models, to represent the fact that Crowe has been rendered insane by the sheer power of the blade. He also loses Heroic Sacrifice.

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I was majorly bummed that his Blade of Antwyr wasn't ruled as a Daemon Blade - IMO, the neatest wargear option in the 40K universe - so I thought I'd switch things up a little. No points alterations. Instead, to balance him out, the Daemon Blade has a unique risk involved. Basically, upon a failed Ld Test, the Daemon in the Blade of Antwyr possesses Crowe, and he goes into a rage, thirsty for the blood of friend and foe alike.

Dedicated transport is there so that, despite him not being an IC, he has some hope of making it across the board. This is basically to rule out having to 'cheat'; to avoid it, it's possible by taking an Inquisitor, and 3 Warrior-Acolytes with a Razorback. Then you deploy Crowe right behind the Razorback, and T1, the Warrior-Acolytes jump out, and Crowe jumps in. Allowing him to take one for himself... just saves time. And points. And wasted, up-for-grabs Kill Points.

I intend to use this in friendly games, where possible, at the casual gaming club I attend, where fun is paramount. Should make things a little more exciting, either way.

What do you reckon? Like it? Dislike it? I wanna know.

It is a Daemon Blade, the thing is that he's not actually using it as one.
It even says right in the little blurb for it:
"Although Crowe wields the Blade of Antwyr, he does not draw upon its powers, relying only on its physical properties and his own skill at arms. The Blade of Antwyr is therefore treated as a close combat weapon."

The whole point of Crowe carrying the blade is that he's completely immune to its whispers and the temptations of its power.

Think of it like "The One Ring" from LOTR. It's a corrupt artifact with a will of its own--and it's none too happy being carried by someone it cannot control.
Hence why it causes Furious Charge and re-roll failed To Hit rolls on those assaulting Crowe--the Blade of Antwyr is trying to get Crowe killed so that it can be wielded by another.

That was the issue I raised; that it wasn't ruled as a Daemon Blade. Whilst I understand the background surrounding the Blade of Antwyr, and Crowe's mastery of it, perfectly, from a gaming standpoint, I think he'd be a much more impressive, fun character if it were ruled as a Daemon Blade.

I was thinking of a rule where if a certain condition was met he loses control of the blade and falls to chaos. Like if he rolls 3 sixes in a row for any reason.

But why?

It doesn't make any real sense to force him to take a test every turn, unless he's actually tapping into the blade's power.
The whole point of Crowe is that he's supposed to be a Purifier, one of the "exemplars of the Grey Knights' spiritual incorruptibility". It's why he was given the sword in the first place.

Crowe already has enough of a downside for wielding the blade. People assaulting him get Furious Charge and get to re-roll all failed To Hits in the first Assault phase that they engage him. This is just kind of silly.

Take that up with the fluff bunnies that care; this is the Proposed Rules section, dude.

I disagree that it's silly. He pays for gaining the Daemon Blade, and all its awesome boons, with the Rage thing. Would it be sufficient just to give him Rage, on its own? Doesn't make sense, IMO.

I'm not sure if by "awesome boons" you're referring to your take on it or the way the Codex is presenting it(where he gains nothing at all from the Blade of Antwyr).

His sword is simply a "close combat weapon".
The only real "special" thing about him is that he uses the Brotherhood Champion's "Titan's Herald", "Perfect Warrior", and "Heroic Sacrifice" rules, makes Purifiers Troops, and that his CC attacks have Rending on a Wound roll of 4+.

And just because it's the "Proposed Rules section" doesn't mean I can't put down your idea as completely unnecessary and seeming to want to just soup up a character that doesn't actually need any souping up.

That's where the community will disagree with you. Have you seen the Crowe hate?

By "awesome boons" I'm referring to the Daemon Blade rules. Have you read them?

Yes, I have.

And I find them to be overpowered with the way that his attacks are allocated.

You can't just tack on the Daemonblade abilities without considering the way he's done to start with.
Titan's Herald means that on the turn in which he assaults--Crowe will be re-rolling failed rolls to hit.
The Sword Storm stance means that he'll be making a single attack on every enemy model in base contact with him.
Rapier Strike means that he'll be making D3+1 attacks on a charge, at I10(rerolling failed to-hits from Titan's Herald)
He'll also be Rending on wound rolls of 4+

Now let's factor in Daemon abilities, shall we?
Warpflame means +3 strength for attacks. That's putting Crowe at S7, with Sword Storm--that's going to be quite a few things that will be killed simply from being B2B, and S7 with Rapier Strike means D3 I10 S7 attacks against a single character, Rending on a 4+.
Unholy Speed means +3 attacks, which really would only come into play on Rapier Strike--which again is a nasty character killer, even without the Unholy Speed ability.
Etherblade means Armour Saves can't be taken against the attacks, which kinda makes this one a dud.
Vampyre means he'll be getting +1 Wound for every unsaved wound he inflicts. On Sword Storm, he's looking at around a minimum of 3 when in B2B with a full unit--more if he gets surrounded.
Daemonic Feud means always wounding on 2+ on Daemons, forced re-roll successful Invulnerable Saves.
Deathlust means Furious Charge and Rage for the bearer...gee, that's pretty useless considering he'd get Rage just from failing the roll anyways.
Dark Resurrection means he gets FNP/EW.
Daemon Venom means he gets Poisoned(2+).
Familiar means he gains a Force Weapon and Mastery(2)

All in all: the Daemonblade rules are useless and more of a hindrance. The real reason Crowe is "hated" is because of the fact that people dislike that he causes the enemy fighting him to gain USRs on the turn they assault, while he "gains" nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disclaimer: I get that you're wanting it for fun. But you asked for feedback. This is mine. You don't get to pick and choose what feedback you get, you have to take the negative with the positive
Also, I added in "Vampyre" because I forgot about that one.

I have to agree with Kanluwen that the Blade shouldn't really be having an effect upon him in-game, not least be able to almost possess him; A Grey Knight!

Also, Crowe is actually regarded as a very balanced character, his own weakness compensating for the (significant) boost of Purifier's as troops.

I'd personally argue that a better solution for Crowe was if he was an IC with a little bit of editing to his 'confer Furious charge etc.' rule...

Perhaps I should re-word it, then, so that, upon failing the Ld, he automatically gains Deathlust for the remainder of the game, and only rolls 1 other Daemon Blade boon per turn.

Overpowered? That's why I had him treat everyone as an enemy model; to counteract that overpowerdness, with a major risk. And risks are fun, which is what these Proposed Rules are for; in this instance, anyway.

Okay, let's go back a step. How wold you rule Crowe, so that he had a Daemon Blade, not a CCW? What changes would you make? Bump the points up?

First off, if I were to do it so that "he had a Daemonblade not a CCW"--you'd have to completely revise him from the ground up.
He'd have to ditch the Brotherhood Champion's special rules, and since he's a special character and it's a unique sword--there would be properties that are already known and inherent to that specific blade.

I would give him Deathlust and Unholy Speed only.
We'd be looking at 5 attacks, 6 on the charge with Furious Charge+Rage.
With his "Master Swordsman" ability intact, that means 5(6) potential Rending on a 4+ attacks.

When it comes to "Possession", it should be damned near impossible for the sword to possess him.
That's the whole bloody reason he was given it in the first place, rather than it locked away into a vault where it would corrupt the guardians.
If he's within a unit of Purifiers, he gains a +1 to his Leadership test for each Purifier within the unit as they grant their spiritual might to his in overwhelming the blade and pimp slapping it back into submission.
We're also still looking at The Aegis rule being in effect for that, meaning that Crowe would have another +1.

Basically: it would be impossible for the blade to possess him. There's no problem with that, at all, since it's not like he's gaining absurd amounts of power from a Daemonblade that's been bound in wards and sigils(which is why the Daemonblades in the Grey Knights book don't require LD tests from the wielder--they're also supposed to be less powerful than the Chaos versions).

Im with kan on this one.
The whole idea of him having it is to keep it under control.
For him to use it would be somewhat stupid as it goes against the fluff to the point where necron and BA meet up every week for a drink.

He is las bait due to not being an IC.
He gets torn apart in CC by anyone.

He changed the structure of the army though, which is his whole purpose.

Kanluwen wrote:
Vampyre means he'll be getting +1 Wound for every unsaved wound he inflicts. On Sword Storm, he's looking at around a minimum of 3 when in B2B with a full unit--more if he gets surrounded.

Dark Resurrection means he gets FNP/EW.

And if he gets both, he becomes Death, Destroyer of Worlds. Seriously, Crowe gaining 1W for every wound he causes, and with EW on top of his rerollable saves which would also get FNP? I assume "Vampyre" only works with attacks from the sword, otherwise Cleansing Flame goes through the roof in silly power level against Orks and 'Nids.

Does it say it only works with Daemon Blade attacks?

Popsicle wrote:Does it say it only works with Daemon Blade attacks?

Yes, it does.

"When the Daemonblade inflicts an unsaved wound, its wielder immediately gains +1 Wound (to a maximum of 10)."

Vampyre and Dark Resurrection would be silly enough on the standard Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (who, incidentally, is the only place the Daemonblade entry appears in the entire book) with his human stats and the fact that he can only wield it in Power Armour/Carapace Armour.

It's not a terrible idea for Crowe to have a Daemon weapon...it's just completely and utterly unnecessary.

Crowe is literally the most incorruptable GK.

Draigo would become possed by the blade before he would.

Crowe could maybe use a powerup, but not by destroying his fluff.

Without his fluff, why should there even be a special character.

I think he should be able to "break the purity" somewhere in the game.... like loosing Independent character (HE HAS IT. Look at the wording of titan's herald. He is supposed to join a squad. Just an oversight by the author.), gains 3 of standard Deamonblade's abilities, loosing Heroic Sacrifice & Hammerhand powers, but suffering from Rage...

Imagin his tragic twist... he knows he is corrupted by at least a portion of his blade, but has to deny it as he is the most shining beacon of purity the purifiers have... bit of Fulgrim light in this..

Crowe is horrible compared to the other HQ's

motorhead1945 wrote:(HE HAS IT. Look at the wording of titan's herald. He is supposed to join a squad. Just an oversight by the author.)

Or, you know, they were just lazy and copy-pasted.

Cranberry Muffinman wrote:Crowe is horrible compared to the other HQ's

but he comes with a major army slot buff, making purifiers troops.

Why can't Grey Knights players just be happy? lol, all jokes aside, It says in his fluff that he won't use it as a daemon weapon and the rules. Plus, doesn't he get a massive amount of attacks in CC?

I don't mean to offend, but GK players just got a brand new Codex filled with plenty of powerful units, who cares if one guy has unpowered attacks?

Commisar Von Humps wrote: Why can't Grey Knights players just be happy? lol, all jokes aside, It says in his fluff that he won't use it as a daemon weapon and the rules. Plus, doesn't he get a massive amount of attacks in CC?

I don't mean to offend, but GK players just got a brand new Codex filled with plenty of powerful units, who cares if one guy has unpowered attacks?

Couldn't agree more.

To me it seems like his biggest issue is he has one-guy-foot-slogging-across-the-board-itis. I doubt it's fluffy, but I'd be happy with giving him a personal teleporter for a modest sum.

Enjoy the six squads of purifier troops and be done!

DoW

Commisar Von Humps wrote: Why can't Grey Knights players just be happy? lol, all jokes aside, It says in his fluff that he won't use it as a daemon weapon and the rules. Plus, doesn't he get a massive amount of attacks in CC?

I don't mean to offend, but GK players just got a brand new Codex filled with plenty of powerful units, who cares if one guy has unpowered attacks?

+1 to this, I don't know why people are going knit picking him to death. How hard is it to just remember that Purifiers are fantastic?

And on the rules you proposed, you really should base rules on fluff, it's just kind of rude to say "I want this model to be awesome, therefore, it is". I for one take objection to people doing that. Not sure about the rest of you.

Personally im happy with crowe in my army hes ike my lone wolf in my SW list he can't do much but your opponent normally forgets about him since its almost always move run move run etc

until hes in charge range and then they wonder where he came from hes a good character with good fluff and i know hes not the most popular character in the codex but at least hes not draigo xD