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As far as the "all the bad news at once" thing goes - Machiavelli wrote that cruelty should be dispensed all at once and kindness over time since people have short memories. It seems GW management reads "the Prince". : )

I genuinely feel for the US store staff that will fall short of unrealistic sales goals (they're already unrealistic) this year in the wake of these prices and lose their livelihoods after the corporate hacks show up and throw them out. GW is truly it's own worst enemy

I have also been concerned about that. I'm already making less impulse buys or purchases of large piles at once these days and the higher prices will cause further reductions. Many other hobby vets I know are also cutting back more since prices got so tough the past couple years. This is going to be a lot harder on the store staff for sure as they try to meet their monthly goals and earn associated bonuses.

GW seriously has "corporate kill-teams" that come out when their stores are underperforming. They will send out the regional manager, and then the guy above him, and they'll come to the store and rattle the manager's cage and/or fire him and have someone else in his spot within a few days. It's almost unreal how they treat their employees. I understand that low performance needs to be dealt with, but I feel for the guys that are already facing the hatchet and will be unemployed by mid-june due to this next price-hike.

EDIT: I just imagine myself in their place, maybe making a lot of good progress towards running a solid store, and then boom, this hits and customers bail on you and now you're telling your wife you're looking for work.

Really sucks.

I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

I'd also like to say, I think people really, really need to direct any ire towards upper management. I went into my local GW today and the manager has been fielding hate calls. Seriously???

He's a dude running a store, and a nice guy at that. Save the hate for where it belongs.... perhaps "corporate", but definitely not the shop runners. They're just doing their job.

I'll probably pick up the DE book this week, and check out the prices after the hike and see if I can stomach it. But if I were to start another army right now, I honestly think it'd be another GW... although I have picked up a Privateer Press force as another option, it's not the same quality of sculpts that I see from GW, not to mention all the extra options that I just take for granted on the sprues.

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

I'd also like to say, I think people really, really need to direct any ire towards upper management. I went into my local GW today and the manager has been fielding hate calls. Seriously???

He's a dude running a store, and a nice guy at that. Save the hate for where it belongs.... perhaps "corporate", but definitely not the shop runners. They're just doing their job.

I'll probably pick up the DE book this week, and check out the prices after the hike and see if I can stomach it. But if I were to start another army right now, I honestly think it'd be another GW... although I have picked up a Privateer Press force as another option, it's not the same quality of sculpts that I see from GW, not to mention all the extra options that I just take for granted on the sprues.

I would really hope people wouldn't hate on the retail sales staff on the ground level, they're literally about as disillusioned as the rest of us - but they need to keep quiet to keep their jobs. What's terrible is the corporate hacks seriously have NO idea how it is to run a retail operation from the floor. They think their little store visits make them knowledgeable in this, but they fail across the board to understand how challenging it really is.

Really, people should be calling up GW corporate if they want to be heard, rattle the cages of those closest to the ears that matter.

I agree with RiTides about the prices for the new models.

However, how can we justify the older models also being higher in price?

I feel bad for everyone being affected by GWs four pronged attack on it's customers. That being said, there is at least one GW employee that I feel really bad for.

That dubious honor goes to the poor schmuck/s that that get to run/work at the new GW store opening here in sunny Arizona... in June.

Reasons I feel bad... 1- It's AZ, so naturally it's hot.

2- GW stores have done poorly here in the states even in good times... from what I understand.

3- Could they have chosen a worse time to open a store? anywhere?

4- Yeah... it's hot. I know I already mentioned it, but I felt it could be said again. Anyone ever cooked eggs on the sidewalk? It's been done here. And it's summer.

5- All of the fresh about nerd rage going around, it's going to be one hell of a rough opening. Poor Bastards.

Do we have any historical price rise information over the last 3 years? It seems like there have been astronomical price rises these past few years, after nearly a decade of relative stagnation.

Is this the case?

One of the major reasons Australia is paying so much more than they should for GW products is because of the disparity between the exchange rate of the Australian Dollar with the British pound vs. their comparative PPP rates.

International companies use the PPP rates from the IMF (Purchasing Power Parity) to set prices in other countries so they can avoid the volitility of currency exchanges. In theory the PPP, which is set by long term GDP figures and comparitive currency exchange rates over long periods of time, will lead to a more stable exchange rate. So items in different countries should end up being similar in value from one country to another. However in practice that doesn't always work, and in the short term it can lead to some inequities.

I'd bet that in 2007 prices weren't so out of whack in Australia. But in the 4 years since 2007 the value of the Australian Dollar compared to the British pound has nearly doubled. But in that same time period the PPP's have barely budged.

The 2010 PPP for the UK compared to the US Dollar was .64, (.64 Pounds to the US Dollar) Australia's was 1.61. So the PPP conversion between them ends up around 2.5, and so theoretically goods worth 1 British Pound would be equal in value to 2.5 Australian Dollars. However, currently 1 British Pound is really only worth 1.52 Australian Dollars.

So according to that PPP conversion rate, Assault on Black Reach that costs 56.50 Pounds in the UK should cost 141.25 Dollars in Australia. That is very close to what GW charges. And since the PPP doesn't take into account shipping costs in it's calculations, tack on another $9Aus for shipping costs and you end up with the GW price of $150.00 Aus.

However, in actuality the value of Assault on Black Reach due to current comparative currency exchange values is really only $85.88 Aus. $85.88 vs $150.00, you're paying almost double. And Australia isn't the only country to suffer from this kind of pricing idiocy, New Zealand and much of Asia is out of whack with Europe where PPP vs Currency is concerned.

There are a lot of calls for the IMF to introduce a new system, but change is slow and for now most companies and countries will take stability over accuracy.

So GW isn't really to blame, at least not solely to blame. The relative newness of Global trade and international pricing are really at fault, and this is one of the flaws in the current system.

I hope this helps to make sense of the situation, and that this doesn't lead to any arguements.

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

How easy is it to find Infinity stuff in the US? I pretty much only see GW and PP in stores.

dariakus wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

RiTides wrote:I don't know if the prices will be high enough to discourage my purchases... will wait it out to see. The new model releases are so fantastic, though (I'm looking at DE) that compared to the competition for the quality I'm actually thinking GW is a pretty good value. I know this is sacrilege... but just look at the quality of those DE releases! They're pretty incredible... I can't think of a comparable release from another company in the same genre.

It's interesting that you mention that; were it not for the upcoming DE releases, I would have no trouble swearing off GW products cold turkey. That said, I personally find the entire DE range, up to and including the new releases, to be an exception to the prevailing aesthetic of GW's releases, rather then a continuation of them, so after they are finished...

Beyond that, and I would tie this into what the fellows on Beasts of War were saying, there really are a lot of amazing lines out there; while I love Warmachine/Horde rules, I will freely admit they are behind GW's standards in rules. Infinity, on the other hand... I would say that the DE releases are the only GW offerings that even come close to the quality of the overall Infinity range.

How easy is it to find Infinity stuff in the US? I pretty much only see GW and PP in stores.

The Warstore carries pretty much the whole range (at 20% off); but shops can certainly get it. My local is mostly a comic shop, and he orders through Alliance/Diamond... which has some problems, to be honest. If you local is having trouble finding it through their suppliers, the Warstore supplies retailers as well.

The biggest problem with Infinity is that it's new, and is in the early stages of growth; I recommend downloading the quick-start rules, proxying some models and seeing if you like the game (or buying the beautiful models for use in other games, whatever suits your fancy). The best thing to do is to be an advocate for the game, that's the only way to see more of it in the states.

SabrX wrote:Sighh... I remember the good ol' days when AoBR cost $60.

WHAT! I just got into 40k this December (and then out again in March to play Malifaux--sidenote, all you ship-jumpers: Get a box of Mx!), and anyway, WHAT! AOBR used to cost $60? And now it's...$100. And when did it first come out? 2008?

Neffertech wrote:One of the major reasons Australia is paying so much more than they should for GW products is because of the disparity between the exchange rate of the Australian Dollar with the British pound vs. their comparative PPP rates.

International companies use the PPP rates from the IMF (Purchasing Power Parity) to set prices in other countries so they can avoid the volitility of currency exchanges. In theory the PPP, which is set by long term GDP figures and comparitive currency exchange rates over long periods of time, will lead to a more stable exchange rate. So items in different countries should end up being similar in value from one country to another. However in practice that doesn't always work, and in the short term it can lead to some inequities.

I'd bet that in 2007 prices weren't so out of whack in Australia. But in the 4 years since 2007 the value of the Australian Dollar compared to the British pound has nearly doubled. But in that same time period the PPP's have barely budged.

The 2010 PPP for the UK compared to the US Dollar was .64, (.64 Pounds to the US Dollar) Australia's was 1.61. So the PPP conversion between them ends up around 2.5, and so theoretically goods worth 1 British Pound would be equal in value to 2.5 Australian Dollars. However, currently 1 British Pound is really only worth 1.52 Australian Dollars.

So according to that PPP conversion rate, Assault on Black Reach that costs 56.50 Pounds in the UK should cost 141.25 Dollars in Australia. That is very close to what GW charges. And since the PPP doesn't take into account shipping costs in it's calculations, tack on another $9Aus for shipping costs and you end up with the GW price of $150.00 Aus.

However, in actuality the value of Assault on Black Reach due to current comparative currency exchange values is really only $85.88 Aus. $85.88 vs $150.00, you're paying almost double. And Australia isn't the only country to suffer from this kind of pricing idiocy, New Zealand and much of Asia is out of whack with Europe where PPP vs Currency is concerned.

There are a lot of calls for the IMF to introduce a new system, but change is slow and for now most companies and countries will take stability over accuracy.

So GW isn't really to blame, at least not solely to blame. The relative newness of Global trade and international pricing are really at fault, and this is one of the flaws in the current system.

I hope this helps to make sense of the situation, and that this doesn't lead to any arguements.

Worth Repeating. Tried explaining this in another forum, but the nerd rage from the Southern Hemisphere Blockade, Resin Switch, Price Increase drowned it out.

BrassScorpion wrote:

I genuinely feel for the US store staff that will fall short of unrealistic sales goals (they're already unrealistic) this year in the wake of these prices and lose their livelihoods after the corporate hacks show up and throw them out. GW is truly it's own worst enemy

I have also been concerned about that. I'm already making less impulse buys or purchases of large piles at once these days and the higher prices will cause further reductions. Many other hobby vets I know are also cutting back more since prices got so tough the past couple years. This is going to be a lot harder on the store staff for sure as they try to meet their monthly goals and earn associated bonuses.

I really sympathise with their store employees. They are hamstrung by corporate policy. The only bright spot is that they may beat this month's goal because people are buying stuff prior to the price increase and switch to resin.

Thrax wrote:
GW seriously has "corporate kill-teams" that come out when their stores are underperforming. They will send out the regional manager, and then the guy above him, and they'll come to the store and rattle the manager's cage and/or fire him and have someone else in his spot within a few days. It's almost unreal how they treat their employees. I understand that low performance needs to be dealt with, but I feel for the guys that are already facing the hatchet and will be unemployed by mid-june due to this next price-hike.

EDIT: I just imagine myself in their place, maybe making a lot of good progress towards running a solid store, and then boom, this hits and customers bail on you and now you're telling your wife you're looking for work.

The way GW treats its employees disgusts me. Although a store needs to be properly managed, there are many other factors that determine its success. Most stores boost business by advertising and by having sales. Unfortunately these factors are out of the hands of the store manager.

As an aside, I checked the GAW share price.
It slumped in January, but has picked upback.

It spiked on the 18th May but has settled back down to 422.5 at the time of writing.

At least the investors seem happy with all the news this week.

I am a bit lost with all the shennanigans but what happened on the 18th?

sorry to take this OT but was just not sure if it is worth a whole new thread, was curious if the spike coincided with the price increase announcement. Will start new thread if OP/Mods object to this being here.

ph34r wrote:

Pacific wrote:I know I shouldn't say it, because it's a little unfair on Moonshine, but your post really did make me laugh... a rare occurrence in these dark times!

Yeah. In reflection I think I may have been a bit harsh, but really, his solutions/excuses were pretty far out there. At least we got some laughs out of it

When you know everything about model making on a mass scale and you know everything about buissnes then you can say your opinons are more right than everyone elses. Nobody actually knows gw's buissnes plan or what is happening behind there closed doors so it is all well and good saying what you think they should do but without all the knowledg then your ideas could be a pretty bad move.

Read there strat

http://investor.games-workshop.com/downloads/results/results2010/2009-10_FinalFullYearReport.pdf


They don't care. They have doubled their return on capital through price raising and cost reduction plans. If we keep buying, nothing will change. They have a solid business plan and performance. Their stock went up 2% yesterday. Crazy.... Just so sad

The share price picked up in April due to the announcement of dividends.

Managed to find a couple of reviews about GAW shares.
They were predictibly far removed from the events of this week and oblivious that sales could be hit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2011/apr/08/games-workshop-gains

http://www.stockopedia.co.uk/content/games-workshop-undervalued-55829/
It is hard to believe it is the same company that has the fanbase so riled.

One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

BrassScorpion wrote:When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Hey my brother has one with 40 greatswords..........all metal bought at a gamesday bargain bin just before they released the plastics. Heh heh heh

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Between the price rises and 8th edition rules I think that Fantasy is dead. It is just too costly to start an army. The new TK battalion has approximately 450 points worth of models for 120 USD. So to get a 2000 point army you are looking at spending at least 480 bucks. The new stuff is not selling, and people are not playing as much. Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

GW thinks they're an *IDEAL* candidate!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=10100033a&_requestid=3588165

Expect Dark Eldar prices to be "adjusted" next year.

You guys honestly believe DE price is this "low" because GW want to make it fair pricing for us?

No, its to gain momentum from introducing DE back to us after the long absence.

That's fine with me, LunaHound... by this time next year, I'll have all the DE I'll want/need (just saying...). Might as well buy where the quality is highest and price is the most reasonable, right?

I agree with BrassScorpion about the fantasy elite units for over $40 for 10 small models... I haven't bitten on any either, and I generally see people just not fielding these if they didn't already have them.

spaceelf wrote: Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

Well, there were at least 5- I currently only play fantasy (will be starting 40k again with dark eldar) but didn't have my army with me... but yes, in our area fantasy is less popular.

However, the Columbia GW store has a strong fantasy contingent... mostly people who have played it for a long time, though (even though I personally have not).

RiTides wrote:That's fine with me, LunaHound... by this time next year, I'll have all the DE I'll want/need (just saying...). Might as well buy where the quality is highest and price is the most reasonable, right?

I agree with BrassScorpion about the fantasy elite units for over $40 for 10 small models... I haven't bitten on any either, and I generally see people just not fielding these if they didn't already have them.

spaceelf wrote: Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

Well, there were at least 5- I currently only play fantasy (will be starting 40k again with dark eldar) but didn't have my army with me... but yes, in our area fantasy is less popular.

However, the Columbia GW store has a strong fantasy contingent... mostly people who have played it for a long time, though (even though I personally have not).

Yes right now its very good time to purchase Dark Eldar, however i feel that IF i continue to get into warhammer armies, im contributing to GW/s sucess at ripping us off.
Its like GW does ONE thing that is good, out of 10 , should i still bother with them knowing they'll continue to treat us badly in the future and beyond?

I dunno , the compulsive buying is tugging at me :'<

Well, I long ago resigned that I don't like their corporate practices... but then, I don't like Microsoft's corporate practices, but I have an Xbox.

More to the point, I usually buy locally, and I'm supporting my local hobby scene and store. One of the stores is a GW, one is an independent, and I game at both.

So from that perspective, I don't mind supporting them... and with those incredible models I'm actually quite happy to! If it's not worth it to me, I won't... but these models (DE) make it well worth it at their current price- it is quite good.

Might as well, anyone that wants to use it go for it, spread the word.

spaceelf wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:One thing that's been interesting to me is to watch the near non-existent sales of the few elite "Special" troops for Fantasy Battle the past few years that cost $41.25 US for 10 models. I hardly see any of these built or used in games I would presume mostly because of the high cost. This includes Greatswords, Bestigor and more recently Tomb Guard. Now all the elite "Special" troops that currently cost $33 are being increased 25%(!) to $41.25. Given the lackluster sales of the existing $41.25 sets one may have been inclined to think there could be a shift downward on the price of those sets or at least no more new sets introduced at that price. The idea that so many sets will be at that price point and still sell seems ludicrous. When's the last time you saw a 40-man horde unit of Greatswords? *sigh*

Between the price rises and 8th edition rules I think that Fantasy is dead. It is just too costly to start an army. The new TK battalion has approximately 450 points worth of models for 120 USD. So to get a 2000 point army you are looking at spending at least 480 bucks. The new stuff is not selling, and people are not playing as much. Case in point, there were only four Fantasy players on hand for the grand opening of the battle bunker in Maryland.

For giggles I priced my 2000pt skaven army at MSRP (Pre-price hike, pre-tax) with no basing or paints, and the models come out to $775. It's a pretty tough sell when you are trying to get people interested/back into the game.

I'm rather indifferent. But I'm on a personal moratorium anyway due to family issues.

I'll unfortunately be one of the vultures circling when people start selling off their stuff though.