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Hey, as long as we have beer, guns, and bacon strips, that's fine by me

Eventually brass poles..and I believe if one can die for country then one can drink at 18...father having one with a teen is exceptable...just keep it within normal consumption

There isn't a huge amount of point in having a legal system with such a small settlement, honour should keep things running smoothly.

Small settlement at first but eventually we're going to expand due to the fact we got it together. I say a settlement with a nice trading post...think of the size of the BBQ grill we could use to entice people with skills we need and eventually people who would labor but willing to learn a tradeskill

WARORK93 wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:If there is a true apocalypse the government won't survive in any meaningful form, WWZ was a zombie invasion rather than a true apocalypse.

It might not be as organized as it was in WWZ...but I'm certain there will be some remnant of the government or military left and I'm just as certain they will try to retake power...

I honestly would rather take a bullet ( or a whole magazine full of bullets) than " re-join" some pathetic ( or even well organized) remnant of the existing "system" and help to rebuild it.
...I'll have nothing to do with flag waving or some sense of "hold over patriotism" and " Allegiance to pre-existing governments", my goals would be survival and seeing to the well being of our people...not in re establishing " America"

FITZZ wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:If there is a true apocalypse the government won't survive in any meaningful form, WWZ was a zombie invasion rather than a true apocalypse.

It might not be as organized as it was in WWZ...but I'm certain there will be some remnant of the government or military left and I'm just as certain they will try to retake power...

I honestly would rather take a bullet ( or a whole magazine full of bullets) than " re-join" some pathetic ( or even well organized) remnant of the existing "system" and help to rebuild it.
...I'll have nothing to do with flag waving or some sense of "hold over patriotism" and " Allegiance to pre-existing governments", my goals would be survival and seeing to the well being of our people...not in re establishing " America"

If they're giving out free power armour, I'm so going for it.

MrDwhitey wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

WARORK93 wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:If there is a true apocalypse the government won't survive in any meaningful form, WWZ was a zombie invasion rather than a true apocalypse.

It might not be as organized as it was in WWZ...but I'm certain there will be some remnant of the government or military left and I'm just as certain they will try to retake power...

I honestly would rather take a bullet ( or a whole magazine full of bullets) than " re-join" some pathetic ( or even well organized) remnant of the existing "system" and help to rebuild it.
...I'll have nothing to do with flag waving or some sense of "hold over patriotism" and " Allegiance to pre-existing governments", my goals would be survival and seeing to the well being of our people...not in re establishing " America"

If they're giving out free power armour, I'm so going for it.

... ...And that would be your choice, mine would be to avoid the " old system" as much as I could.

I wouldn't stick around, I just want the free power armour.

I'd be down with opposing the attempts at reforming the old system.

I say if we re-start the gov't. We should start off with the original constitution. I do not have the brain power to come up with a new one. One thing I be adamant on though...no IRS. If another group wants to go back to the way it was well...um...no...

Besides we need to elect some of us as officials on paper. In a way we have some form of gov't

corpsesarefun wrote:I'd be down with opposing the attempts at reforming the old system.

... Part of what I suppose you might call my " Apoc Fantasy" is that the current system is swept away, thus allowing for the establishment of a better way of governing/ running ones life.

Exactly.

I disagree with reusing the american constitution, mostly because I'm English and it wouldn't be relevant to the level of development our society would have.

I'm somewhat ambivalent where the Constitution is concerned, they're certainly elements contained within it that I'd want to see put in place...but I can't wholly agree with stating that " This document should be what we re-build our government off of"...

Think current level of society to what we're use to is shot. I mention the original constitution and bill of rights to start off and go from there. No IRS, no gun control...well thats out the window from the get go. Since we're a coalition we can also look at the documents that formed the monarchy for UK...in a nutshell. Take whats good from either form of gov't and combine them as we go along. We call it the Article of Dakka. If Prince Henry and Williams show up at our door step well...um...here's a shovel get to work with the rest of us besides we need a helicopter pilot eventually

edit
and another shooter

-shrugs- I'm all for the construction of a new (and better) system...obviously it would be simpler, I'm just saying there would probably be some splinterrs of the old world still around to try and assert their power...

Not to mention all the criminals that had probably escaped and become minor warlords in their own right...

But I guess that's what the automatics are for...

Jihadin wrote:Think current level of society to what we're use to is shot. I mention the original constitution and bill of rights to start off and go from there. No IRS, no gun control...well thats out the window from the get go. Since we're a coalition we can also look at the documents that formed the monarchy for UK...in a nutshell. Take whats good from either form of gov't and combine them as we go along. We call it the Article of Dakka. If Prince Henry and Williams show up at our door step well...um...here's a shovel get to work with the rest of us besides we need a helicopter pilot eventually

As currency would have no value...and hopefully never would again, the reformation of the IRS and the banking industries ( I would hope) wouldn't be an issue.

Jihadin wrote:
As for Liquid...well we do need to retrieve the tomahawks when they are down range...

Jihadin wrote:Yep..that would confuse the Hell out of me on which way to aim it...either Liquid takes one in the chest while "behind" it or he needs to pick more then just one tomahawk while down range amidst ducking and dodging zombies/bullets/arrows/kitchen sink/volkswagon/boulders...and whatever else we can throw down range

Jihadin wrote:3-4 round burst please....no ripping off a 100 round belt...maybe..just maybe...whoever is the youngest can rip off a 100 round belt on a 240B

Hey..I have a few questions...

If or when the UKers get over here....will there be withdraws from fish and chips?

If we ration the food to keep from starving and hot saucing your battle buddy...we can extend the ration by assigning the worst cook we can find?

If the country collapse...does that void the country itself? ie away with old gov't in with new?

I get the feeling I'm the expendible part of this... though I'm all for ripping off 100 round bursts aimlessly.

No worries on the fish and chip front, it isn't that good. I'll suffer more from lack of Internet.

Assign the worst cook we can find to extend rations... GENIUS! Sure fire way to preserve food there

Out with the old, in with the new, right?

Looking good so far then, now how are those of us in the UK going to get to the US?

WARORK93 wrote:-shrugs- I'm all for the construction of a new (and better) system...obviously it would be simpler, I'm just saying there would probably be some splinterrs of the old world still around to try and assert their power...

Not to mention all the criminals that had probably escaped and become minor warlords in their own right...

But I guess that's what the automatics are for...

Depends on the " criminal"...many of those seen as " criminals" would be useful IMO...now, I'm certainly not talking about frothing at the mouth seriel killers or child molesters and the sort...
But many of those who are locked up now have skills that would be benificial ...and, contrary to popular myth " criminal" doesn't mean sub human scum.
...And yeah, there most likely would be remnants of the old government about...personally I'd take a whole jail full of bikers over " Joe politician and his army".

I agree. We're going to be influence to what we're use to as gov't before the collapse. Just use them as reference and build a framework around to suit our idea of fair and balance gov't.

As for dealing with criminal gangs and warlords....well....Infantry has quite a good saying. Business is killing and killing is good. Then we have to deal with the people they had control of since they now became our responsibility. Well Fortress Dakka will grow into a nice Republic. I'm sure the UK peeps will ferry as many UKers as they can to our little Republic in the states and continue to do so after establishing their presence here. More the merrier. Our biggest problem will be keeping up with food production so whoever wanted a gun boat and play with demo charges in the great lakes. Ever increasing cow pastures as we herd more cattle. Think security and food be our driving force

edit
I agree Fitz. I take good talented criminals over joe the politician. Figure we slam the bejebus out of whatever warlord/criminal gang and work with the left over remnant of that organization. We either going to get additional labor....well...more labor....we need to acquire more ankle chains. or since we need a black smith he/she can get the practice in

Personally I think government is a poor idea in a settlement of perhaps 50 people.

corpsesarefun wrote:Personally I think government is a poor idea in a settlement of perhaps 50 people.

With that small a number we'd be operating in a more " tribal council" manner...which suites me just fine.

I agree at first for 50 plus people a council will be good. As we grow well....though an idea to plan ahead

Precisely.

If we try to implement parties and a hierarchy with such a small population we will end up with the entire population having a job in one of the parties and/or massive discrepancies in power between neighbours all living in what is effectively slums.

Jihadin wrote:I agree. We're going to be influence to what we're use to as gov't before the collapse. Just use them as reference and build a framework around to suit our idea of fair and balance gov't.

As for dealing with criminal gangs and warlords....well....Infantry has quite a good saying. Business is killing and killing is good. Then we have to deal with the people they had control of since they now became our responsibility. Well Fortress Dakka will grow into a nice Republic. I'm sure the UK peeps will ferry as many UKers as they can to our little Republic in the states and continue to do so after establishing their presence here. More the merrier. Our biggest problem will be keeping up with food production so whoever wanted a gun boat and play with demo charges in the great lakes. Ever increasing cow pastures as we herd more cattle. Think security and food be our driving force

edit
I agree Fitz. I take good talented criminals over joe the politician. Figure we slam the bejebus out of whatever warlord/criminal gang and work with the left over remnant of that organization. We either going to get additional labor....well...more labor....we need to acquire more ankle chains. or since we need a black smith he/she can get the practice in

... ...I don't know that creating forced labor chain gangs is the best idea....that sort of thing creates a plethora of internal problems, basically each man and woman understanding that they're survival depends upon the overall success of the whole operation should be enough motivation...in theory of course.

Also, I would be extremely interested becoming a blacksmiths apprentice if we were to find a blacksmith.

FITZZ wrote:

... ...I don't know that creating forced labor chain gangs is the best idea....that sort of thing creates a plethora of internal problems, basically each man and woman understanding that they're survival depends upon the overall success of the whole operation should be enough motivation...in theory of course.

Anarcho-communism.

I suppose you could call it Anarcho-communism...though I see it as more of a return to " Native American" sort of values.

Tribal counsels don't work unless there is a Chief who makes the final decision, and that decision stands. Small groups under crappy conditions need someone who can make a decision that will be followed. How that leader is picked... well lots of ways can work, but I honestly beleive that you do need a leader who will be obeyed in this type of situation.

Hence things like Chain of Command in a military unit...

Once things settle down, tribal counsels, constitutional conventions, or what ever can come into play.

Most tribes of 100 people or less could be accurately described as anarcho-communist, it isn't a perfect description but political descriptions rarely are perfect.

CptJake wrote:Tribal counsels don't work unless there is a Chief who makes the final decision, and that decision stands. Small groups under crappy conditions need someone who can make a decision that will be followed. How that leader is picked... well lots of ways can work, but I honestly beleive that you do need a leader who will be obeyed in this type of situation.

Hence things like Chain of Command in a military unit...

Once things settle down, tribal counsels, constitutional conventions, or what ever can come into play.

I'd say that in various situations which would be encountered " leaders" would emerge...in combat situations, those who excel at it would, IMO, naturally be " in charge" of the others..in hunting, foraging, building, planting crops, etc...those with the most experiance and know how would more or less be the person(s) in charge.


EDIT:...The main problem I see with a " single leader" is that , for example, one becomes "leader" based of physical power, well...he may not be the brightest crayon in the box and could end up making some very crap decisions when in a non combat role.
On the flipside, choose a leader based on how intelligent they are...and you may end up with someone with no stomach for violence which could lead to weakening the group...
Unless a single leader with a multitude of qualities and strengths were to emerge ...I'd question allowing one man to lead.

In a technocratic society those who are best suited to a role take charge of that aspect of government, a system similar to this would be useful.

Say we were threatened with war, those with military experience would be the main speakers while the final decision would be decided by vote.