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Fulgrim already killed his share of Wraithlords in his own novel, he's probably waiting for the real challengers to appear.

BrookM wrote:Fulgrim already killed his share of Wraithlords in his own novel, he's probably waiting for the real challengers to appear.

Yeah! Plus, the Wraithlord he nobbled was way more bling than any of those silly Ultramaraithlords on the cover here.

If this novel is based after the massacre at Isstvaan, then that's not Fulgrim

Grarg wrote:If this novel is based after the massacre at Isstvaan, then that's not Fulgrim

Unless it's set after The Primarchs, in which case, we have no idea just how much Fulgrim there is left behind those pretty white bangs. How successful will his exorcism actually be? *Cue dramatic music*

Ah yes, i forgot about that...

EDIT: dun dun dun!!!!

Exorcism? Did I miss something?

Graham McNeill's story in "The Primarchs" is called "The Reflection Crack'd".

Here's the statement from the BL website:

Next up is 'The Reflection Crack'd', which is my contribution to the Primarchs anthology. This story addresses something I'd wanted to deal with ever since the Battle of Isstvan V at the end of my novel, Fulgrim. I won't spoil it for you, but when I was pitching the story to the editors it was with the line, 'It's The Exorcist, Emperor's Children style.' There's much more to it than that of course, but as a hook line, that's not a bad one. Writing this story was like a homecoming for me, as Fulgrim was a novel I put black heart and cursed soul into, so to come back to the ravaged Legion was a total blast. Writing Lucius is a joy, as he gets to say and do so many things that most other characters I write would never even think of. And Fulgrim embracing his monstrous narcissism and rampant ego-mania makes for a fun day of writing. The end of the story is also a neat lead in to my next Horus Heresy novel, which it's not a spoiler to say features the Emperor's Children and a certain Traitor Legion known for its expertise in siege warfare.

Ah, nice!

automatonsleuth wrote:

Unless it's set after The Primarchs, in which case, we have no idea just how much Fulgrim there is left behind those pretty white bangs. How successful will his exorcism actually be? *Cue dramatic music*

..some of us know...

The answer is:

Nothing. Fulgrim is now effectively channeling Prince.

Kanluwen wrote:The answer is:

Nothing. Fulgrim is now effectively channeling Prince.

Must be a sign o' the times

Finished Salvation's Reach the other day. It was good as usual but I'm not sure I like the ending that much.

Kanluwen wrote:The answer is:

Nothing. Fulgrim is now effectively channeling Prince.

My thought was he's finally ditched the pretence and is embracing his inner Sephiroth...

Ok, so I have a little bit of a rant here. I picked up both Void Stalker by ADB and The Primarchs at Adepticon. On my long flight back to CA from Chicago, I finished Void Stalker and loved it. Great end to the trilogy and was just generally awesome. Then I started reading The Lion (in the Primarchs) by Gav Thorpe, as Dark Angels are my first love and I really liked the short story (also by ADB) of the Lion fighting the Night Haunter.

Now, I have liked Gav Thorpe's writing in the past, but maybe reading his story after reading something by ADB was a big mistake. Every single character falls flat and it feels like I'm being told what happened rather than actually seeing what is happening. It's just so dull.

There is a fun exercise in character development that I once heard about. Describe a character without describing what they look like or their profession. Good characters are easy to describe (eg: Talos: Hopeful, brooding, inspiring, etc... you can do this for ANY member of First Claw) and poorly developed characters are hard to describe. Right now, I can't describe any of the characters in The Lion (including Mr. El'Jonson himself) and the adjectives I can use could really be assigned to any of the characters.

It's just such a disappointment.

Also, I read Know No Fear on the way to Chicago and loved that as well. It would have been nice to see a little bit more from the Word Bearers' persepective, but it really did a good job of showing how such a relatively small force could really screw up such a huge force. And the fact that each chapter counted down to the betrayal was brilliant. We all knew what was going to happen, so as the counter got closer and closer to zero, the tension skyrocketed.

Ozymandias wrote:
There is a fun exercise in character development that I once heard about. Describe a character without describing what they look like or their profession. Good characters are easy to describe (eg: Talos: Hopeful, brooding, inspiring, etc... you can do this for ANY member of First Claw) and poorly developed characters are hard to describe. Right now, I can't describe any of the characters in The Lion (including Mr. El'Jonson himself) and the adjectives I can use could really be assigned to any of the characters.

I expressed a similar sentiment when discussing Alien Resurrection with friends years ago. Mediocre characters get remembered as "The angry guy" or "The woman with the big gun" while memorable characters get remembered as Hudson or Vasquez.Caring enough to learn a character's name in a movie is a big deal.

Ozymandias wrote:

Spoiler:

I remember John Grammaticus, but what the hell is going on with these "immortal" characters? Have we met any others?

Ozymandias wrote:Ok, so I have a little bit of a rant here. I picked up both Void Stalker by ADB and The Primarchs at Adepticon. On my long flight back to CA from Chicago, I finished Void Stalker and loved it. Great end to the trilogy and was just generally awesome. Then I started reading The Lion (in the Primarchs) by Gav Thorpe, as Dark Angels are my first love and I really liked the short story (also by ADB) of the Lion fighting the Night Haunter.

Now, I have liked Gav Thorpe's writing in the past, but maybe reading his story after reading something by ADB was a big mistake. Every single character falls flat and it feels like I'm being told what happened rather than actually seeing what is happening. It's just so dull.

It's just such a disappointment.

I feel your pain there.

I felt the same way after reading "Deliverance Lost".

After Abnett and A D-B, there does seem to be a bit of a drop off - though they all certainly do a better job then I could!

The latest attempt at detailing the workings of the Alpha Legion in "The Primarchs" takes some rather predictable turns, though I suppose in a series detailing a galactic civil war involving the Emperor's sons, the temptation to do exactly what I feared they'd do was too much to resist.

There's still hope though, I suppose!

Ozymandias wrote:

Spoiler:

I remember John Grammaticus, but what the hell is going on with these "immortal" characters? Have we met any others?

Alpharius wrote:

The latest attempt at detailing the workings of the Alpha Legion in "The Primarchs" takes some rather predictable turns, though I suppose in a series detailing a galactic civil war involving the Emperor's sons, the temptation to do exactly what I feared they'd do was too much to resist.

There's still hope though, I suppose!

They did what you feared?

A little bit more than that would be nice to know..

Because those ups ( KNF ) and Downs ( DL ) aren't a sign The Primarchs going to be good.

Now that y'all mention it, I think I know what you mean about Gav's character development. I didn't notice it before. I suspect I'll be unable to do anything but notice it when I read The Primarchs!

1hadhq wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:

Spoiler:

I remember John Grammaticus, but what the hell is going on with these "immortal" characters? Have we met any others?

Spoiler:

Ollanius ( pious ) in Deliverance Lost. Another Immortal and he knows John. Gets a mission there...

Alpharius wrote:

The latest attempt at detailing the workings of the Alpha Legion in "The Primarchs" takes some rather predictable turns, though I suppose in a series detailing a galactic civil war involving the Emperor's sons, the temptation to do exactly what I feared they'd do was too much to resist.

There's still hope though, I suppose!

They did what you feared?

A little bit more than that would be nice to know..

Because those ups ( KNF ) and Downs ( DL ) aren't a sign The Primarchs going to be good.

OK...Spoiler Vision.... ON!


Also, the Fulgrim story was quite lame.

Haven't read the Ferrus Manus one, or the Lion's yet.

You know what...
I like that spoiler.

If heavy ham-handed fiction is your thing, you're in for a treat!

OK, it isn't that bad, I'm still just a little disappointed about the direction they're taking with the Legion, that's all.

Alpharius wrote:If heavy ham-handed fiction is your thing, you're in for a treat!

OK, it isn't that bad, I'm still just a little disappointed about the direction they're taking with the Legion, that's all.

What's so disappointing about the Legion splitting?

I'm reading Primarchs right now. I wished I managed to grab Void Stalker but they were out by the time I got to the booth. As for Primarchs I didn't really enjoy the Fulgrim story but I didn't really enjoy Fulgrim much either. I'm on the Iron Hands one and actually like it a bit more and Manus has to be the most boring and agry Primarch ever....but it's still better than Fulgrim.

Primarchs is sounding more and more like one to avoid.. On the bright side, if all goes well and Royal Mail isn't a bunch of royal witches I should be getting Void Stalker tomorrow.

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:If heavy ham-handed fiction is your thing, you're in for a treat!

OK, it isn't that bad, I'm still just a little disappointed about the direction they're taking with the Legion, that's all.

What's so disappointing about the Legion splitting?

Have you paid attention to how the Legion is depicted in 40K fiction set in the 'current' timeline?

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Alpharius wrote:If heavy ham-handed fiction is your thing, you're in for a treat!

OK, it isn't that bad, I'm still just a little disappointed about the direction they're taking with the Legion, that's all.

What's so disappointing about the Legion splitting?

Have you paid attention to how the Legion is depicted in 40K fiction set in the 'current' timeline?

Not to every single depiction, of course not. But that's mostly because I don't pay much attention to CSM stuff.

There's two different depictions at work.
We have some forces which are overtly Daemonic/Chaosy (read: "Hunt for Voldorius")...and then we have the "other" Alpha Legion. Vraks actually showed this with the first Renegades list, and even had a special character who was Alpha Legion and suspected of working alongside members of The Fallen to sow discord on key Imperial worlds with no discernible reasoning as to why or to what end.

The first one is very opposed to "Legion" and its depiction...but the second one?
The second one seems to go fairly hand in hand with what we last knew of from "Legion", wouldn't you agree? The idea of the Legion sidling up to the traitors and gaining their confidence, only to leave them hanging at a key moment is actually a fairly interesting one in my own opinion.

Unfortunately, the FW version is read by few, and the "I killed Billions of People and Stapled all of their Babies to my Forehead" version is read by more!

I'm still hopeful the more interesting version wins out in the end!

New Chaos Codex rumor:

Instead of being called Codex: Legions, it will be called Codex: Forehead Baby Staplers.

I can't take credit for creating that phrase - I think I first read it on Abnett's blog?

It is a shorthand way of describing the many problems inherent in writing from a CSM point of view.

Though A D-B does a hell of a job with it!