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I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.

Buttons wrote:I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.

I get your reasoning but if weapons get AP values, I hope it's way more simplified. The complexities of who is carrying what flavor of what can add up fast.

reps0l wrote:

Buttons wrote:I don't mind CCWs getting an AP value, I always found it dumb that marines couldn't rip through Ork flesh/armour, or simply punch a guardsman in his unarmoured face. As for the standard AP 3 power weapon it might not be too bad. I am hoping that you can buy different levels of power weapons with AP 3 being the lower, standard level for power weapons. So for example a guardsman might (they shouldn't get the good power weapons outside of officers and maybe storm trooper sergeants) be able to get an AP 3 power weapon for 10 points (current base cost) and might be able to upgrade it to an AP 2 power weapon for +5 points. Perhaps they will try to make them more fluffy so you can take a third version that is AP 1 and counts as rending against vehicles.

I get your reasoning but if weapons get AP values, I hope it's way more simplified. The complexities of who is carrying what flavor of what can add up fast.

Exactly. I think each type of weapon should have a static ap value and players can model accordingly. Chainsword = ap5, Power sword = ap3, power axe = ap2, as a potential example.

Brother SRM wrote:I don't see them doing that, as power weapons are already seldom taken by units who can take powerfists. When was the last time you saw a Space Marine sergeant with a power sword?

Yeah, but remember the leaked codex also had power swords granting a 5++ in close combat. So they take with one hand and give with the other if this is true. Lets just hope it is or they doing something else to balance it out.

Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.

Also, seems to me that CC is taking a BIG hit in efficacy now. Shooty units will hit more often against large stuff (MCs, large tanks, anything staying still), while CC units can no longer thin enemies out by shooting before charging, can get wipe out via alpha-strike if any enemy unit joins up...

Sephyr wrote:Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.

Also, seems to me that CC is taking a BIG hit in efficacy now. Shooty units will hit more often against large stuff (MCs, large tanks, anything staying still), while CC units can no longer thin enemies out by shooting before charging, can get wipe out via alpha-strike if any enemy unit joins up...

But you may get stuck in a lot faster. And units may not sit in transports all game.

In my playtest games with the pancake edition, my Tyranids just swamped stuff. My opponent only got a round or two of shooting in before I hit him multiple places.

Regarding some of the other rumors, I think the price increase was very telling. I think it's not an accident that fliers and buildings got the big price hike, because lots of people will be trying them out once 6th hits.

Sephyr wrote:Not sure I like the "first assault, THEN shoot) mechanic. So now I can no longer shoot a transport and assault the contents? In fact, if I shoot it with any assault weaponry (optimal range meltas), I'm only setting myself up to be charged the next turn. Odd.

As I mentioned earlier it doesn't seem likely since it add nothing. Assault oriented armies take a hit because they can't shoot and soften up a unit before charge and shooty armies must either assault or shoot instead of the latter followed by the former making it obvious how they will always go (hint a squad of vets won't charge 3 marines to drive them off an objective if they can't shoot them with their meltaguns first).

CC may still be viable for hordes, but I don't see mixed armies working so well anymore. Say, Eldar fire dragons cracking vehicles so Banshees can assault the passengers. And even if it works...oops, another squad joined the fight and alpha-stomped the banshees!

CC may still be viable for hordes, but I don't see mixed armies working so well anymore. Say, Eldar fire dragons cracking vehicles so Banshees can assault the passengers. And even if it works...oops, another squad joined the fight and alpha-stomped the banshees!

If it plays out like pancake ed then this worry is unfounded, in pancake if a unit appeared withing in 6'' of you after you moved, like getting shot out of a transport, you can assault the new target instead. That's just pancake ed. though, but if it was an early play test and they kept one then most likely they kept the other as they balanced well and kept the strategy you mentioned.

Evidence for CCW Ap, Obyron from the Necron codex. He's 165pts, WS6 but Int 2, has a 2+ and warscythe, and can teleport. Thats it. Not good against a unit with PW, however, if in 6th(which the necron dex was written for) PW are Ap 3, then only PF and CF can kill obyron, but since those go at Int 1 and he is WS 6, this makes him actually worth his points. Also, I beleive that Necron Warscythes don't say "no armor save" but "no armor saves allowed" which, if power weapons are Ap3 in 6th, the lauguage of the scythes doenst need to be changed and they still ignore all armor, thus seperating them from power weapons)

Thats some good reasoning, hopefully it turns out something like this. I wouldn't mind ap power weapons at all. In fact, I think it would add something intersting to the game. It would certainly make terminators hard to deal with for some people though.

It would increase Drahzar's life expectancy.

He doesn't have an invulnerable, and right now he goes down hard to anyone with a power weapon.