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Looks like they meant they are in the process of answering PM'ed questions, DaveC.

Well...

Hugely popular KS + potential for semi-informed IP law discussion + silent/ vague KS creator is pretty much the perfect combination for a Dakka thread to go nuts with.

You know it'll be fun though

(and to stay on topic, Heroquest you gotta love it!)

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well...

Hugely popular KS + potential for semi-informed IP law discussion + silent/ vague KS creator is pretty much the perfect combination for a Dakka thread to go nuts with.

Or, you know, any discussion forum?

 DaveC wrote:
Gamezone are now taking questions in the KS comments

EDIt scratch that they will only be answering PMs - really why not put the information out there what have they got to hide.

Their reasoning is that it's the best way for them not to miss any questions. I hope they'll then post a big FAQ update answering the questions (as well as updating the FAQ at the bottom).

Sound enough reasoning - hopefully they'll put out a FAQ every now and then for us to read.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
You know it'll be fun though

(and to stay on topic, Heroquest you gotta love it!)

Oh, just brilliant. Hordes of blithering idiots without the first *actual* clue of how IP law (tends to) work, for example already asserting there's 'no way' to legally use existing game mechanics - this'll be fun if watching a horde of mentally challenged forum posters be unshakably certain of their own little legal fairytales. Have fun, I'm out

 Alpharius wrote:
Yikes - settle down there!

Gamezone themselves are sort of encouraging this type of talk by only kind of sort of hinting and talking about whatever it is they had to do in order to feel like it was OK to make "Heroquest".

Sorry. The intent for the caps lock was not to yell or set on cruise control for cool.

But because this point keeps getting missed when people discuss this issue and then lather themselves into a furor, especially where GW is concerned when they are entirely a non issue for this game.

Its like discussing the weather in Philly, but because there was a tornado in wisconsin off and on for a few years, then there has to be a hurricane coming to that will lay waste to Philly.


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 Bolognesus wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
You know it'll be fun though

(and to stay on topic, Heroquest you gotta love it!)

Oh, just brilliant. Hordes of blithering idiots without the first *actual* clue of how IP law (tends to) work, for example already asserting there's 'no way' to legally use existing game mechanics - this'll be fun if watching a horde of mentally challenged forum posters be unshakably certain of their own little legal fairytales. Have fun, I'm out

Precisely. And apparently discussing such issues is "On Topic".

Throw the subject out an airlock, I say. Because in space, nobody can hear your nonesense.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Well...

Hugely popular KS + potential for semi-informed IP law discussion + silent/ vague KS creator is pretty much the perfect combination for a Dakka thread to go nuts with.

It's not just here, BGG is going at it pretty well too...

I continue to be suprised by new project creators and their lack of understanding about kickstarter and forums in general. It's not like KS is a new platform anymore...

Am enjoying reading the kickstarter comments on this. Have never seen excitement about a project turn into all out moaning so quickly. A record number of " I have pledged but am unhappy and am cancelling" posts in the comments for this too. Good work people.

So then, You Are Entertained?

When I went to work this morning they were on about $230,000. They're now on about $360,000, during a working day, and v. early morning in the US/Canada.

However many people are complaining (and saying they are withdrawing their money), it obviously pales in comparison to those pledging.

I just find this funny how blindly people are throwing money at this.

*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings
*Company's first kickstarter
*Questionable licensing concerns
*Questionable shipping concerns.
*Unclear on mini material (Restic? could be just me who is unclear)
*Multiple stretch goals that are more insulting than having no stretch goals (a boulder, blank cards, a chipboard tile)
*So far, next to no communication.

While at the same time the AVP kickstarter, people seem almost as skittish over, and have very little of the concerns above. It's arguably a larger license, but may not appeal to as many people.

carboncopy wrote:
I just find this funny how blindly people are throwing money at this.

*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings
*Company's first kickstarter
*Questionable licensing concerns
*Questionable shipping concerns.
*Unclear on mini material (Restic? could be just me who is unclear)
*Multiple stretch goals that are more insulting than having no stretch goals (a boulder, blank cards, a chipboard tile)
*So far, next to no communication.

While at the same time the AVP kickstarter, people seem almost as skittish over, and have very little of the concerns above. It's arguably a larger license, but may not appeal to as many people.

Will be interesting to see how Raging Heroes haters will react to this, esp. in the middle of the campaign.

Odd that this kickstarter ends between Xmas and a weekend. Not sure if this hekps the campaign.

carboncopy wrote:
I just find this funny how blindly people are throwing money at this.

*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings
*Company's first kickstarter
*Questionable licensing concerns
*Questionable shipping concerns.
*Unclear on mini material (Restic? could be just me who is unclear)
*Multiple stretch goals that are more insulting than having no stretch goals (a boulder, blank cards, a chipboard tile)
*So far, next to no communication.

While at the same time the AVP kickstarter, people seem almost as skittish over, and have very little of the concerns above. It's arguably a larger license, but may not appeal to as many people.

I think most of the concerns are still there. They just have differing levels of.discussions surrounding them.

For instance, everyone loves talking about legal mumbo jumbo when GW is involved. They have just as much proof.as the next guy about licensing. Which is only their statement on tghe project.
The material.issue is still there and both companies have examples of the material used. In fact, I.would.say more.peoplehave the gamezone example available than the Prodos warzone example.
Stretch goals are not as bad in AVP as they are in the heroquest project,but you argubally get a ton more stuff for a.similar price.in heroquest than t you do in AVP. Cursory examination reveals this to be an obvious fact.

It is curious though how one project has some issues fixated on more than the other with similar potential issues.

I'm going to wait on this one and see what we get in the first official update. So far, the stretch goals have seemed a bit meh, and the lack of details/renders/information on miniatures hasn't convinced me to pledge yet.

~iPaint

carboncopy wrote:*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings

Isn't there renders of a lot of the core set in the video?

Regarding the legal stuff....all they need to say is "don't worry, we've legitimately licensed this" and it will all go away.

 Hellfury wrote:


It is curious though how one project has some issues fixated on more than the other with similar potential issues.

That is a good question, and it probably comes down to presentation and communication, or lack thereof.

decker_cky wrote:

carboncopy wrote:*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings

Isn't there renders of a lot of the core set in the video?

It looks like you're right. I think there are some wip renders of some of the heroes at the end, and some of the terrain images are also renders. They looked like drawings to me initially.

I guess I didn't mean to say these concerns won't be addresses, but how little some of these major concerns have little effect on how people actually pledge (at least initially).

 Hellfury wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I have owned over a hundred Gamezone models in the last few years; most of them didn't need to be filed let alone puttied to make them usable. Most are exceptionally cast and sculpted.

It is pretty astounding that a single old man shopkeeper managed to put together all that concept art and all those 3d renders in that video.

edit: the only problems I've had getting Gamezone miniatures is the recent plastics as there's a queue of people who preordered them.

Also as far as I'm aware Gamezone hasn't made any resin minis, or at least, none that I've owned.

Absolutely this.

I am having a difficult time beleiving grampa spaniard shopkeeper doing all this. To me, it questions the entire premise and validity of the assertion.

I also own gamezone minis and they are quite nice overall.

In other words, citations or yield.

Not wanting to play the post count game, but its also the guy's first and only post. It might be a small operation, it might have serious issues, but the post reads like a ticked off former employee or someone with an axe to grind.

The licensing issue could be more of a concern for those interested in backing. Hasbro doesnt exactly play nice with people who step on the toes of their property (they own the game rights dont they?). From my understanding, The Doom That Came to Atlantic City was squashed partly because they objected to a Monopoly parody and that hammer didnt come down until after the KS was funded. I have no clue if its an actual issue, but people's concerns should be addressed by Gamezone early, given how quickly rumors spread.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:


It is curious though how one project has some issues fixated on more than the other with similar potential issues.

That is a good question, and it probably comes down to presentation and communication, or lack thereof.

Im not sure. I am more inclined to beleive it has to do with speheres of influence crossing over.
Fox is considerably more litigious, yet GW hits closer to home for gamers of the tabletop variety. GW has given gamers decades to brush up on their armchair legalese to become bonafide Intarnetz Lawyoors ™. So when any excuse arises to stretch those eLegal muscles, they will certainly take it, by god.

Both have equally claimed rights published online, yet Gamezone is questioned, i think it is fair to describe the questioning as "incessant".

Yet neither has provided anymore proof than the other.

But i suppose at large it doesnt matter.People are going to grouse about what they are going to grouse about.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Odd that this kickstarter ends between Xmas and a weekend. Not sure if this hekps the campaign.

That's probably due to the delays in getting it started.

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

The licensing issue could be more of a concern for those interested in backing. Hasbro doesnt exactly play nice with people who step on the toes of their property (they own the game rights dont they?). From my understanding, The Doom That Came to Atlantic City was squashed partly because they objected to a Monopoly parody and that hammer didnt come down until after the KS was funded. I have no clue if its an actual issue, but people's concerns should be addressed by Gamezone early, given how quickly rumors spread.

I thought that happened because the guy who ran it embezzled the money, used it to pay his moving expenses, had no idea how much it would actually cost to produce the game, and frittered away most of the cash and didn't even pay the people who were making it for him?

 judgedoug wrote:

Bossk_Hogg wrote:

The licensing issue could be more of a concern for those interested in backing. Hasbro doesnt exactly play nice with people who step on the toes of their property (they own the game rights dont they?). From my understanding, The Doom That Came to Atlantic City was squashed partly because they objected to a Monopoly parody and that hammer didnt come down until after the KS was funded. I have no clue if its an actual issue, but people's concerns should be addressed by Gamezone early, given how quickly rumors spread.

I thought that happened because the guy who ran it embezzled the money, used it to pay his moving expenses, had no idea how much it would actually cost to produce the game, and frittered away most of the cash and didn't even pay the people who were making it for him?

Definately that, I was just noting the part most pertinent, that just because it makes it past the funding stage doesnt mean that its completely in the clear for legal issues. Sometimes Habro is quick on the draw (too quick IMO) like on the Impact Chibi Dungeon Explorers, other times they pop up months later. Even if its unfounded, Gamezone would be wise to nip this in the bud.

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Am enjoying reading the kickstarter comments on this. Have never seen excitement about a project turn into all out moaning so quickly. A record number of " I have pledged but am unhappy and am cancelling" posts in the comments for this too. Good work people.

I haven't even posted yet!


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 Kroothawk wrote:

Odd that this kickstarter ends between Xmas and a weekend. Not sure if this hekps the campaign.

I assume it's because it was set for a 30-day campaign (or whatever) and the pushback/delay took it to just after Christmas. I reckon it's got to be better than just before Christmas though - surely?

An interesting thread from The Geek, going into more depth about potential trademark issues with actual information.

Heroquest

 Azazelx wrote:

Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Am enjoying reading the kickstarter comments on this. Have never seen excitement about a project turn into all out moaning so quickly. A record number of " I have pledged but am unhappy and am cancelling" posts in the comments for this too. Good work people.

I haven't even posted yet!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Odd that this kickstarter ends between Xmas and a weekend. Not sure if this hekps the campaign.

I assume it's because it was set for a 30-day campaign (or whatever) and the pushback/delay took it to just after Christmas. I reckon it's got to be better than just before Christmas though - surely?

I would have made this one a 45 day campaign. This is a rough time of year to be ending, but maybe they're banking on gamers blowing freshly given Christmas cash on this the next day?

Gamezone Miniatures 2 minutes ago

First update at 18:00 EST / 00:00 CET(GMT+1) Stay tunned.

- Kraken

Lets see what they have in store for us. Hopefully, future updates will be at a better time for EU based backers.

Catyrpelius wrote:An interesting thread from The Geek, going into more depth about potential trademark issues with actual information.

Heroquest

There's no real legal information there.

Actual legal information on Spanish IP law seems to be here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1076998/kickstarter-live/page/3

Search for the post by razagul, then it continues onto later pages. Not sure about the actual law behind it, but he does talk about Spanish IP law.

carboncopy wrote:
I just find this funny how blindly people are throwing money at this

While at the same time the AVP kickstarter, people seem almost as skittish over, and have very little of the concerns above. It's arguably a larger license, but may not appeal to as many people.

While I agree with you to an extent Carboncopy, taking it from a 'glass half full' perspective.. (or 'overflowing tankard of dwarven ale' might be more appropriate!)

*No minis presented, not even renders, just drawings
1. Have you seen this company's back catalogue? A lot of people actually prefer to buy Gamezone miniatures to GW, despite them being similar price. That tells you something. They've made some stunning miniatures over the years, and this is actually the part of it I am most excited about.

*Company's first kickstarter
2. A lot of 1st time KS have been successful to an extent.. From the blurb it sounds like they have done some preparation - hopefully at worse this will be Sedition Wars, rather than Gates of Antares.

*Questionable licensing concerns
3. No sense in worrying about that, if some legal action starts the worse thing that can happen is the KS gets cancelled, we get our money back. Personally I think this is quite unlikely, considering Hasbro's track record and the fact that the guy who designed the original has not been heard from in 20 years within the industry.

*Questionable shipping concerns.
4. No worse than many other KS - chances are the value of the overall product will more than compensate.

*Unclear on mini material (Restic? could be just me who is unclear)
5. Don't really care about material, as long as its not the low grade stuff that Mantic used for their goblins or Finecast. Again, prepared to trust a company that has a proven track record.

*Multiple stretch goals that are more insulting than having no stretch goals (a boulder, blank cards, a chipboard tile)
6. Don't think that really matters that much TBH?

*So far, next to no communication.
7. Understandable given the language barrier, and that we are less than 24 hours in. Also, they can't possibly have expected it to move this much this quickly. It would have been nice to have an English-speaking company involved, but then you can blame that on the dumb-ass company or individuals who have been sitting on an absolute gold-mine of license for all these years and not done anything with it.

And that this is approaching AvP's pledge level within 24 hours I think tells you something about how popular the license is!