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Poly Ranger wrote:
Totally agree. All they would have to do is give him S and T of 6, make his sword ap2 and keep him at the same points cost he was in the last dex. If anyone thinks thats OP they should look at Abbaddon who is 10pts less (than 5th ed sanguinor), has a bucket load more attacks at a higher st and 1 less toughness. And has IC. And he's considered no where near OP.

Anyway I've been looking atvthe flesh tearers strike force and those 6 FA slots have been driving me crazy with all the oppertunities they unlock. Consider the following:

Baal strike force:

Techmarine
Servoharness and combiplasma (in plas pod)

5 scouts
Ccw & bp

5 scouts
Ccw & bp

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 DC
Jps & 1 PF

5 AMs
2 flamers & combi flamer
Pod

5 AMs
2 flamers & combi flamer
Pod

5 AMs
(Jps) melta, combi-melta & mbs

Flesh Tearers Strike Force
Priest (in plas pod)
Combi plasma

5 scouts
Bolters

5 AM
2 melta & combi melta
Pod

5 AM
2 plasma & combi plasma
Pod

5 AM
2 melta & combi melta
Pod

5 AM
(Jps) 2 plasma & combi plasma

Landspeeder (DS)
2 multimelta

Landspeeder (DS)
2 multimelta

1850pts

The plasma pod is quite expensive at 280pts with the 2 characters but puts out 11 plasma shots on the drop (1 tl) and covers both HQ taxes.

Bolters on the FT scouts as they don't have the +1I. The only units loosing out on the +1I who would want to use it are the 2 melta pods after the drop.

It contains 2 flamer, 2 melta and 1 plasma pod so you can decide which you need down T1. There are 2 dual melta speeders to give tank busting shots in later turns. A melta and plasma jp squads to support where needed. And the bread and butter powerfist DC squads with jps to take on anything from hordes to grav-tanks to MCs. The 2 other scout squads provide nuisance factor with their 15 st5 I5 attacks on the charge.

List ignores air targets as it will be in opponents deployment zone most of the game.

What do you think?

Funky. Minor thing. Is it worth swapping the detachment HQs around? Make priest BSF and Tech FT, as doesn't the servo harness make him I1 anyway? If you do that, maybe considering finding the points to give the priest the complas and a relic blade, just to make him a little more potent in CC?

Are you going to test drive this list? I'd be intrigued to know how it played.

I have enough specials to run it although don't have combis on any priest model or my techmarine. Im also short by 2 drop pods and a speeder but could borrow those.
You're right - the priest and techmarine should be swapped round. I could drop the 2 combi-flamers from the sarges and get the priest Valors Edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and it should read 2 melta on the jp squad.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I have enough specials to run it although don't have combis on any priest model or my techmarine. Im also short by 2 drop pods and a speeder but could borrow those.
You're right - the priest and techmarine should be swapped round. I could drop the 2 combi-flamers from the sarges and get the priest Valors Edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and it should read 2 melta on the jp squad.

You sure you want Valours edge over a relic blade. Assuming he's keeping the combiplas you're going to be unloading a load of ap2 into whatever you shoot at. Sure ap2 @ initiative is awesome but you won't with the combiplas you will be losi g a cc attach not not having two ccws and si ce the relic blade is two-handed then that's not a problem...

Food for thought.

This list has got some serious alpha strike potential with the mix of plas/flamer and Melta pods, but I wonder if the points used for the Landspeeders could be better spent. Sure extra Melta dsing is good, but I'm wondering if s couple of dmin bike squads with double grav might be a better option? Not sure how the points tally up for that vs a land speeder, but it gives you a couple of units on the bird from T1, gives you some decent options vs MCs and other 2+ units, and they're more durable than speeders but still mobile.

D

What do you guys think of the angles fury spearhead formation?

Which one is that?

The one with 3 stormravens and 3 10 man tactical squads with free teleport homers. They have triangular something-or other which allows all units to deep strike in that area without scattering.

It gets better in larger games. Around 1500-1850, I don't think it's worth it.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe 2000+ it might be worthwhile. I think if I were to use it I would add a Baal Strikeforce Detachment with some assaulty units, a furioso in a pods and 2 melta assault squads in pods and a sanguinary priest.

It's okay at 2k points. Starts getting over the top OP at 2500+

This is of course assuming you allow the t1 pods to benefit. In the itc tourneys, they house ruled that the homers need to be on the table since start of turn, so you would want to jump pack spam instead and hope at least two ravens survive t1.

Over 2500 I would definetly add a dantestar and death company

So I had some luck yesterday with the following 1000 point list:

HQ
Sanguinary Priest
Bike
Valours Edge
Bolt Pistol

Elite
5x Death Company
1 w/fist and Bolter
1 w/Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol
3 w/CCW and Bolt Pistol

Troops
5x Tactical Squad
1x Heavy Flamer
Sargent with Hand Flamer and CCW
In a Lascannon Razorback

5x Scouts
Snipers and camo cloaks

Fast Attack
3x Bikes
2 Grav Guns
Sargent just with chainsword
Attack Bike with MM
^^^Priest ran with these guys

5x Assault Marines
2x Melta Gun
1x Fist on Sargent
Jump Packs (I currently dont own any drop pods)

1 Land Speeder (Odd choice but never used one and had a few points left over)
Multi melta & Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support
Vindicator with Overcharged Engines


I played an IG tank list (mate was trying something new) and then I played a chaos marine list. tabled both of them. Found the list very well rounded, it didn't really matter what was shot at as all my units could pack enough punch to do something.

 evildrcheese wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
I have enough specials to run it although don't have combis on any priest model or my techmarine. Im also short by 2 drop pods and a speeder but could borrow those.
You're right - the priest and techmarine should be swapped round. I could drop the 2 combi-flamers from the sarges and get the priest Valors Edge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and it should read 2 melta on the jp squad.

You sure you want Valours edge over a relic blade. Assuming he's keeping the combiplas you're going to be unloading a load of ap2 into whatever you shoot at. Sure ap2 @ initiative is awesome but you won't with the combiplas you will be losi g a cc attach not not having two ccws and si ce the relic blade is two-handed then that's not a problem...

Food for thought.

This list has got some serious alpha strike potential with the mix of plas/flamer and Melta pods, but I wonder if the points used for the Landspeeders could be better spent. Sure extra Melta dsing is good, but I'm wondering if s couple of dmin bike squads with double grav might be a better option? Not sure how the points tally up for that vs a land speeder, but it gives you a couple of units on the bird from T1, gives you some decent options vs MCs and other 2+ units, and they're more durable than speeders but still mobile.

D

Thought about what you've said and I could drop the priest down to a techmarine with combi-plasma, drop the servo harness off the other techmarine, drop a pf down to a power axe from 1 DC squad and change the speeders to 2 3 man bike squads with 2 gravs and combi-grav.

Your Top Three Units In Each Category

HQ:
1. Mephiston
2. Sanguinary Priest
3. Terminator Librarian

Elites:
1. Jump Pack Death Company
2. Furioso Dreadnought
3. Sanguinary Guard

Troops:
1. 10 Man Tactical Squads (Drop Pod, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Combi-Flamer)
2. 5 Man Tactical Squads (Las/Plas Razorback, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma)
3. Sniper Scouts

Fast Attack:
1. Melta Assault Squads (Drop Podded or Jump Packed)
2. Bikers
3. Landspeeders

Heavy Support:
1. Fast Las Predator
2. Stormraven
3. Baal Predator/ Fast Vindicators

LOW:
1. Dante (The best warlord in the codex and one of the best in the game)
2. Gabriel Seth

Stick to these and it's hard to build a bad list

I think your top threes are spot on apart from baal pred, it cant compete in that slot at all. Also if you include fw the sicaran should get a nod, even the base model is very good for the points.

Also special mention to Astorath, on his own he's OK other than the unwieldy weapon but he turns ba best unit (dc) into a total monster of a unit.

I wasn't including FW models, but if I did, I would definitely include the Sicaran (It's fast and has a TL Heavy 6 Rending Autocannon as its main gun) and maybe the fire raptor. However, in terms of purely codex models, the Baal predator is easily the best anti-infantry heavy support model (Apart from maybe Devs with HBs or MLs). A TL assault canon far outclasses an Autocannon when compared to the predator destructor. Still, I would personally take a las pred over a Baal pred. As for Astorath, yes while mega hatred on DC is awesome, it is expensive awesome.

Oh and troops over found cassor the damned in a fast pod nice, cuts the troops tax a little if you like dreads but he isn't really a codex entry

True, pretty good for a DC list (Him and Raphen's DC being the troops)

Interesting to see Mephy as your top HQ choice. I haven't used him yet with the new codex. Mainly because I don't really know what to do with him.

My top 3 in each slot:

HQ

1) Mephiston
2) Jump pack libby
3) Biker Sanguinary Priest

Elites

1) Jump pack DC
2) Sternguard
3) Drop pod Fragnought

Troops (do I have to?)

1) 5 man tacs in razorback
2) 10 man HTH scouts
3) Drop pod 5 man heavy flamer tacs

Fast Attack

1) Grav bikers
2) MM attack bikes
3) Drop pod 5-man ASM with melta (I haven't used these yet)

Heavy support

1) Fast tri-las pred
2) Fast auto-las pred
3) Stormraven

Mephy is a great buff monkey for the Sternguard. And bodyguard.

Oohh good idea to list.
My top 3 (some of which I may not have used) not inc FW.

HQ
Bare bones jp priest (For SG)
Jp libby
Mephiston

Troops
5 man ccw&bp scouts with mbs on sarge
5 man bolter/sniper scouts (may not do much damage but have scored me more objective points alltogether than any one else)
5 man tacs in pod with hf and combi-flamer (not used)

Elites
5 man jp DC with 1pf
8-10 man SG with 2 fists and banner
Fragnought with pod

Fast attack
5 AM with 2 melta and combi-melta in pod
Grav bikes (not used - don't own)
Dual MM speeder

Heavy Support
Storm raven
Fast auto-las pred
Fast Vindicator (although this is risky with assault army. Haven't used this with the new dex but it is exactly the same as the old dex).

Worst in each slot and why:

HQ
Captain tycho
With no dead mans hand he is basically a one use melta gun. May as well buy a combi-melta for a sarge.

Troops
Fully kitted out tac squad with no transport
Tacs are a tax in my eyes anyway, paying full wack for them os just crazy.

Elites
Normal terminators
Need I explain?

Fast attack
Any non MM speeder
The DS on a dual MM speeder is leathal, after its drop it is incredibly fragile and jink makes it useless. This applies to all speeders, but the rest don't get the benefit of 2 melta shots in melta range against rear armour.

Heavy support
Baal pred with flamestorm
Lack of scout and being in heavy kills it. Especially now we have anti-meq options which have become far cheaper.

Ally astra militarum. Take 1 command squad. 5 guys, 4 with melta guns for 100pt. Take 2 vet squads. Each with 3 melta guns and a demo charge guy for 120pt each. That's 340 points and then take flesh tearers if you need the extra fa slots to get 3drop pods for those allies. 105pt.

That's 445pt for a nice alpha strike. I've been killing with this at 1850pt. The company commander can give orders to ignore cover to his squad and1 other per turn. Or orders to have tank hunter or monster hunter. I also have a fragnought in pod. Tac squad with flamers in pod, and 2 asm squads with melta in pods.

The dc, sang guard and grav bike star i start on the board get largely untouched turn 1 and sometimes 2. If they have first turn I'll maybe deep strike tho

I like reading everything here because I've been screwing around with the idea of turning all my old 3rd edition models into a newly painted Lamenters army (I just love the fluff). That being said, I hope maybe I can field a few questions.

I feel like if I do the repaint, I lose access to Dante, and while Malakim seems cool, he lacks a Jump Pack, making it difficult for me to see taking him since he still tends to be more of a melee oriented chapter master. Was thinking about just going with some cheaper HQ's, Sang Priests or Librarians or one of each. I'd probably be using the standard BSF formation I think.

For troops, I was thinking just scouts, but I was wondering whether I should stick with CCWs or just go the regular sniper route. I feel like CCWs are alot more fluffy for my army, but I'm not entirely sure I'd know how to field them well yet.

Elites would mainly be DC, SG, and a Fragioso, but also, if I only have a single Fragioso, I was curious if that was worth drop podding or if I should aim for more things to drop. I feel like if I only drop one dreadnought, he's only there to die while hopefully taking something with him. Is that an okay use for a single dreadnought? Should I aim to drop anything else? I feel like there must be a fine line between too much drop and too little.

For Fast Attack, I've been reading up on how powerful the bikes are, especially with some grav guns, but I don't actually own any of those from years back. What I do have are 3 speeders I figured I could kit out with Assault Cannons but I never really see anyone mention them. Are they bad now? I could get the same Multi-meltas on them I could on attack bikes, just wouldn't have the Toughness value. On a side note, can I still fire my heavy flamers after a jink? I was thinking I might be able to screen the speeders (or bikes if I went and bought some) using a cheap Assault squad, unless drop podding the assault squad ended up being a better use of points. I just sorta hate the idea of dropping them only to die.

For heavy, I still have two unassembled Predators and a Vindi as well as a whirlwind. I love how cheap the whirlwind is now but I never see those mentioned either. I could go buy a stormraven if they are really as awesome as everyone says, but I'm not sure what unit I'd put in it. Maybe just the Dreadnought. I'd hate to use Malakim and stick him in there. He comes with an honor guard but that is a ton of points to tie up in one stormraven. If it got shot out of the sky that way, I'm not 100% I could recover from that.

So to summarize, wouldn't get a Dante and Malakim might be tactically less mobile. Scouts, snipers or CCWs and how best to use them. How many Fragiosos to field (I mean is just 1 really okay)? Bikes and Attack Bikes vs the use of Speeders, are the speeders worth it (I do like the idea of loading em up with Assault Cannons, but not sure). And Fast Preds/Vindi? I love my whirlwind but it may not add much, and to buy/not buy a Stormraven?

Any thoughts are welcome. While I'm missing plenty, I'm trying to sorta feel out an overall battleplan for what I have so I can figure out what to buy next. This whole thread has been very informative. Thanks Ya'll

kps wrote:
Ally astra militarum. Take 1 command squad. 5 guys, 4 with melta guns for 100pt. Take 2 vet squads. Each with 3 melta guns and a demo charge guy for 120pt each. That's 340 points and then take flesh tearers if you need the extra fa slots to get 3drop pods for those allies. 105pt.

That's 445pt for a nice alpha strike. I've been killing with this at 1850pt. The company commander can give orders to ignore cover to his squad and1 other per turn. Or orders to have tank hunter or monster hunter. I also have a fragnought in pod. Tac squad with flamers in pod, and 2 asm squads with melta in pods.

The dc, sang guard and grav bike star i start on the board get largely untouched turn 1 and sometimes 2. If they have first turn I'll maybe deep strike tho

This is an absurdly good idea! I'd been thinking of demo spec squads but vets with a command squad to give them orders is far better!

Id keep the vet squads at 90pts personally as 30pts is a lot for a demo charge on a suicide squad. It also makes them only 10pts more expensive than the 2 melta & combi melta ASM squad when the pod is factored in, which is definitely worth the high likelyhood of tankhunter or ignores cover.

385pts with pods - excellent!

Also opens up the possibility of 9 wyverns and a pask squadron.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll come back with a list soon - this is an exciting idea, thanks kps!

I agree with all of your choices Natpri, although I think that the Sanguinary Priest and Sanguinary Guard should be above mephiston and furioso's.

Cant a vet squad throw that demo change in turn 1 when they arrive in drop pod? I thought they could. My brother lost an entire tau missile star to a drop pod demo charge. I probably don't need both to have it, but there are times it can be devastating. I threw one on a seer Council on jet bikes and it scattered, but i can't wait for the day i instant kill a few farseers and warlock with one toss. I might save 30pt and get only 1 demo charge instead of both.

I'm really liking Corbulo in a squad of drop-podded sternguard in low point games. He handles decently in combat, with the potential for Initiative 7 Rending attacks at WS5/S5, while boosting the sternguard with FnP and +1 WS/I.

Yep they can. I suppose the 30pts could be worth it. I'm just thinking that it's not going to necessarily wanting to be hitting the same thing as the melta guns. Although the mbs will make the squad more dangerous.

How about 2 command squads with 3 melta and a vox each.
2 vet squads with 3 melta and a vox each.
4 pods.
520pts
This allows for a command on each squad.
Maybe an astropath in each squad for a couple of psychic shrieks. A couple of demo charges too if you want to splash out.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok here we go:

Flesh tearers strike force:
Sanguinary priest (with tac squad)
Bolt pistol

5 tacs
H.flamer and combi-flamer
Pod

5 DC
Pf, jps

5 DC
Pf, jps

5 DC
Pf, jps

3 bikes
2 grav, combi-grav

3 bikes
2 grav, combi-grav

3 bikes
2 grav, combi-grav

2 attack bikes
2 mulitmeltas

Pod

Pod

Predator
Tl lascannon, lascannon side sponsoons, fast

Predator
Auto cannon, lascannon side sponsoons, fast

Sicaran
Schism of mars

Astra Militarum allies
Command squad (in pod)
Vox, 3 melta

10 veterans (pod)
Vox, 3 melta

2 wyverns

1850pts

Looks good. Wyverns are awesome. Sicarians are awesome. I like the list.
Btw, There's an order that gives split fire. Its useful for the melta shots and demo charge to split. You're not always in a position to be 8" from one squad and 12" from another, but I've had the chance to do that once. I think I'll take away 1 of the vet squads demo charge.

I like the idea of small bike squads. I run a little bike star with 4 bikers and 2.5 grav and mm attack bike, a captain with storm shield, combi grav, articifer armor, and pfist. And then a priest with combi grav. This is awesome, but once the combi grav are gone i think several bike squads with 2 straight grav each would be better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hq
Priest. Warlord, combigrav, bike
Captain. Storm shield, combigrav, articifer armor, pfist

Troop
9 tac squad. Heavy flamer, drop pod

Elite
7 death company. 7 bolters, 2 pfists
5 sang guard. 1axe, 1 pfist
Frag Dreadnought. Drop pod

Fast attack
4 bike squad. 2 grav, combigrav, mm attack bike
5 assault squad. 2 melta, combimelta, drop pod
5 assault squad. 2 melta, combimelta, drop pod
3 drop pods

Astra militarum allies
Hq
5 company command. 4 melta

Troop
10 vet squad. 3 melta, demo charge
10 vet squad. 3 melta, demo charge

1846

We doing top 3 slot picks? I'm guessing codex only so...

HQ

1) Mephiston
2) Sanguinary Priest
3) Terminator Librarian

Elites

1) Death Company (JP or DP)
2) Furioso Dred
3) Sanginary Guard (though, honestly, do you need 3 with those 2?)

Troops (do I have to?)

1) HTH Scouts
2) Sniper Scouts
3) Tacticals (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)

Fast Attack

1) Drop Pod Assault Marines (Melta, melta, melta!)
2) Grav Bikers
3) Drop Pod (sounds stupid, but SO MANY uses)


Heavy support

1) Stormraven
2) Fast Vindicator
3) Las Pred

Well, what do you think on the new xiphon flyer? Could it replacethe stormraven?